Wattflyer RC Network: RC Universe :: RCU Magazine :: RCU Forums :: RCU Classifieds :: RCU User Reviews :: RCU YouTube
Home Who's Online Calendar Today's Posts RealTime Post Spy Mark Forums Read
Go Back   WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Beginners
Register Members List Wattflyer Extras Articles Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Social Groups

Beginners New to e-power flying? Get the low down in here from experienced e-power RC pilots!

Thank you for your support (hide ads)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-21-2012, 05:18 PM   #1
mbarker
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 10
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default Sig Cadet Takeoff Problem

My son sent me this to post. We are both novice flyers.


I have a Sig Kadet EP42 and love the plane, but I was wondering if it would
be possible to add a steerable tailwheel. The plane performs great after
takeoff, but it wants to veer to one side or another quickly after you apply
power initially. The wheels are small enough to prevent takeoff on grass in
most cases, so I end up trying to takeoff on narrow strips of
asphalt/concrete. I have tried applying power slowly/quickly, applying
rudder, etc. and nothing seemed to make a difference. I am a new pilot, so
I'm sure my inexperience is a big factor here. Any advice would be greatly
appreciated!

Tks,

Mike Barker
breadman@bvu.net
mbarker is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 05:29 PM   #2
Turner
Super Contributor
 
Turner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 1,374
Thanked 130 Times in 128 Posts
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (3)
Default

A tail wheel would definitely help and larger main wheels would allow use off grass.
Turner is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 05:58 PM   #3
xmech2k
Ya got any Beeman's?
 
xmech2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,587
View xmech2k's Gallery21
Thanked 246 Times in 244 Posts
Club: CVMRCC, SEFSD
Awards Showcase

1kW  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (7)
Default

Since you say you guys are both novice flyers, I have to ask if you're aware of the effect of propeller torque on a plane, especially on a taildragger at takeoff. My guess is, unless you have a good wind from the right, it wants to veer left all the time? On a taildragger, you have to be ready with that rudder, usually, you'll need to apply right rudder to counteract the prop torque. A tailwheel will help, heck you need it for taxiing, but as soon as the tail lifts, it's all about rudder. I'm surprised they didn't include a tailwheel on that model.

Hope that's of some help.
xmech2k is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 08:27 PM   #4
gyrocptr
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Neenah Wisconsin
Posts: 232
Thanked 44 Times in 40 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Originally Posted by mbarker View Post
....The plane performs great after
takeoff, but it wants to veer to one side or another quickly after you apply
power initially. .....
breadman@bvu.net
Sometimes it helps to arrange the wheels with "toe out".
See attachment, page 3....


Attached Files
File Type: pdf ToeOut _EAA.pdf (815.1 KB, 88 views)
gyrocptr is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 08:38 PM   #5
mbarker
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 10
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default Thanks for the help !

Thanks everyone. Very helpful. We were wondering if just a fixed tailwheel
might have a significant impact on the Kadet's ability to have a straight takeoff roll etc. without going through the complexities of trying to rig up a steerable tailwheel ? Also we're very intrigued by the article on toe-out from gyrocptr. Never thought about that before.

Again, thanks so much !

Mike Barker
mbarker is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 09:19 PM   #6
Turner
Super Contributor
 
Turner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 1,374
Thanked 130 Times in 128 Posts
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (3)
Default

A fixed tail wheel can work fine to a point but you will have no maneuverability while it is on the ground. It does keep the plane going straight for a bit though. I have a super cub that I take off by just going full throttle. The wheel keeps it straight and once the tail lifts the rudder keeps it straight. Careful wheel alignment and rudder trim are important.
Turner is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 10:00 PM   #7
Rodneh
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 718
Thanked 69 Times in 68 Posts
Club: Moonport Modelers
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

I strongly disagree with the recommendation for toe-out, just the opposite has always been my experience in literally dozens of tail draggers. Toe-out will usually result in very poor take off's. On grass you will definitely benefit if you put on larger wheels. Check to make sure you do have some toe in on your model, if you do not, that may be part of your take off problems.
Rodneh is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 10:36 PM   #8
Whiskers
Member
 
Whiskers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West Chester PA
Posts: 41
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

I'm a total newb myself but just a simple thing that comes to mind, has he made sure the landing gear isn't bent or tweaked in any way?
Whiskers is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 10:45 PM   #9
Henry Sistrunk
Member
 
Henry Sistrunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ochlocknee Ga
Posts: 797
View Henry Sistrunk's Gallery69
Thanked 60 Times in 56 Posts
Awards Showcase

1kW  2kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (13)
Default

You will find that "toe in " will help greatly. I don't believe 'toe out" will help.
Henry
Henry Sistrunk is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 11:02 PM   #10
Turner
Super Contributor
 
Turner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 1,374
Thanked 130 Times in 128 Posts
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (3)
Default

Did you guy's read the toe out article?
Turner is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 11:26 PM   #11
Henry Sistrunk
Member
 
Henry Sistrunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ochlocknee Ga
Posts: 797
View Henry Sistrunk's Gallery69
Thanked 60 Times in 56 Posts
Awards Showcase

1kW  2kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (13)
Default

Yes
Henry
Henry Sistrunk is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 05:12 PM   #12
CNY_Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: near Cortland NY
Posts: 774
Thanked 36 Times in 35 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default

I think toe-in or toe-out or dead neutral, are all the right answer for different planes.

I tried all 3 on my WWI Fokker D-VII bipe, and toe-out gave a marked improvement (I added a steerable tailwheel as I often fly from pavement), more for preventing groundloops while landing than helping for takeoff, though.

I think saying all tail-draggers benefit from X is akin to saying all trucks, motorhomes, and sports-cars should all have the same alignment settings.

Also, the size of the wheels, the profile of the wheels, and how much give the suspension has are all factors, as well as how the toe and camber change with suspension deflection.

Ask me why your DX5e is doomed... and how to fix it.
CNY_Dave is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 05:57 PM   #13
xmech2k
Ya got any Beeman's?
 
xmech2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,587
View xmech2k's Gallery21
Thanked 246 Times in 244 Posts
Club: CVMRCC, SEFSD
Awards Showcase

1kW  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (7)
Default

I'm going to go read the toe-out article, but here's what the National Association of Scale Aeromodelers has to say about it:

http://www.nasascale.org/howtos/toe-in.htm
xmech2k is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 06:11 PM   #14
Henry Sistrunk
Member
 
Henry Sistrunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ochlocknee Ga
Posts: 797
View Henry Sistrunk's Gallery69
Thanked 60 Times in 56 Posts
Awards Showcase

1kW  2kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (13)
Default

In my 40 some years of working as a licensed aircraft mechanic I can't recall any airplane that required toe out when aligning the landing gear. All reduired a few degrees of toe in. http://www.checkthesock.com/pilots/Henry
Henry Sistrunk is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 07:25 PM   #15
xmech2k
Ya got any Beeman's?
 
xmech2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,587
View xmech2k's Gallery21
Thanked 246 Times in 244 Posts
Club: CVMRCC, SEFSD
Awards Showcase

1kW  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (7)
Default

Hmm... The EAA article that Gyrocptr linked sure makes a logical argument in the sense of how the plane behaves when the weight of the taildragger is unbalanced to one side or the other, but then the NASA snippet I linked sounds very logical, too. I've been an A&P for oh... over 20 years, but it's always been on airliners and on the line, not real heavy checks, so I never dealt with, or even heard of any alignment issues.

Anyways, I've never had to adjust the alignment on any of my models yet. I've never had an issue with them veering due to that, just prop torque and wind. You need to do that pilot stuff!
xmech2k is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Reply

  WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Beginners

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Problem with either LiPo's, ESC's, or BL motors... RC Fan Chris General Electric Discussions 14 06-13-2012 02:41 PM
HELP!!! RX problem!! wittpilot General Electric Discussions 13 10-11-2011 06:19 AM
Glitch / lock out problem!!!! Gee Power Systems 20 04-14-2011 03:29 AM
Unpossible servo problem mclarkson RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros 13 02-13-2011 12:45 PM
Parkzone spitfire flight problem! Help! CPomeroy Beginners 30 02-12-2011 08:45 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:27 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005 WattfFlyer.com
RCU Eflight HQ

Charities we support Select: Yorkie Rescue  ::  Crohn's & Colitis Foundation



Page generated in 0.27982 seconds with 51 queries