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Old 11-21-2012, 11:57 PM   #1
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Default Bird Of Time conversion

Help please....Thirty yrs in RC but brand new to electric powered planes..

Am doing an electric conversion on a Dynaflight Bird of Time 118" w/s...60 ounces.

I've had some components kicking around the shop for a few years and am wondering how The BOT will perform if i were to use them....I have at hand a Mega 22/20/4 brushless motor... a Castle Creations 45 amp ESC..and planned to use with a 3 cell 11.1v 1300mah (14.42 Wh) Lipo battery all being pulled with a 10/6 prop

Whats this 3 meter bird gonna do at launch..

(1) Creak/groan slowly upwards, hanging on the prop at stall point ?
(2) Climb with authority
(3) Streak straight up and outta sight in 6 seconds

Thanx
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:42 AM   #2
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Here is a link to the BOT might help you out with yours. I also moved your question to this area hi-performance and sailplanes.
link to the BOT
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3234
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:57 PM   #3
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It'll fly on your power plant but you will definitely be in Catagory 1. To get mine to Cat 2 (climb with authority) I wound up with a Rimfire 35-48-1300 running at 700 watts with a 12x7 Aeronaut. A 1300 maH battery is too small for two reasons. One being you're going to need ballast to achive proper CG so why use lead instead? The other is to feed a bigger motor as the 400 watts you have now will probably be disappointing.

Even with the bigger Rimfire motor ,80 amp CC ESC and a 2250 maH 3S lipo in mine, she still needed 4 oz of lead to balance. Weight was 65 oz with full gear of 4 servos,Rx and the above power plant.

Do plan on cutting in spoilers, you'll be glad you did. The BOT floats in ground effect forever and the spoilers are nice to get out of trash mover lift. Try to use the lightest servo that you can if you do the stock intstall in the tail. You don't need tons of power with the balanced flying stab. Or do the mod and put the rudder servo forward with the elevator servo and use the bell crank setup in the tail.

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Old 11-24-2012, 04:33 PM   #4
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Thanks LC for the power suggestion...I'd been reading about spoiler installation and the problems some appear to have trying to get this bird down in a root puller..... was considering HK servoless ...or should I lay out the extra bucks and go Graupner ?
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:03 PM   #5
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Robster,
I just went simple with the spoilers.Cutting them in is easy as heck, I used a piece of 1/4" x 1" trailing edge stock and made hinges from Mono Kote then ironed them on. No need to big big either, 1" x 9" works very well,the servos are HS-55's and are plenty of power. She drops like a brick when they are deployed. See pics. And yes, I striped and recovered her as I didn't the creamsicle covering livery.p

Warren


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Old 11-24-2012, 05:38 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Leadchucker View Post
Robster,
I just went simple with the spoilers.Cutting them in is easy as heck, I used a piece of 1/4" x 1" trailing edge stock and made hinges from Mono Kote then ironed them on. No need to big big either, 1" x 9" works very well,the servos are HS-55's and are plenty of power. She drops like a brick when they are deployed. See pics. And yes, I striped and recovered her as I didn't the creamsicle covering livery.p

Warren
Yay Warren....Bingo........ simplicity itself, no linkage to bind, weighted to simply fall down under gravity and wind pressure to flush position........Superb idea, I'm gonna install those, fer sure

Thanx
Rob
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:39 PM   #7
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Robster,
I had to find the photo I was looking to show you an optional way of spoiler retratction without linkage. Here's a pic of the spoiler setup on my 3.2 metre Pulsar. It's still simple and works. You can get away with the weights and they work fine as there is no centrifugal force that could open the spoilers on launch as there is with a winch.
Rubberband placement this way puts minimal stress on the servo at open position but still gives positive closure.


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Old 11-24-2012, 08:29 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Leadchucker View Post
Robster,
I had to find the photo I was looking to show you an optional way of spoiler retratction without linkage. Here's a pic of the spoiler setup on my 3.2 metre Pulsar. It's still simple and works. You can get away with the weights and they work fine as there is no centrifugal force that could open the spoilers on launch as there is with a winch.
Rubberband placement this way puts minimal stress on the servo at open position but still gives positive closure.
Have you ever tried using those small dental quality silicone rubber bands, they are used for holding dental orthodontics/braces in place....they tend to be lighter gauge elastic, more resiliant and seem to generally outlast regular rubber bands by a mile.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:18 PM   #9
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I like the open look of those spoilers, but how strong are they?

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Old 11-27-2012, 09:12 PM   #10
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Hey Lead, I love the Bird of Time, seriously thinking that may be the next bench project. Would love to get together and fly some time. Scott
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Old 09-23-2014, 03:26 AM   #11
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I ordered a BOT from my LHS that I'm planning to electrify. Went to pick it up last week but discovered (in the shop) that UPS had shortened the fuselage by a half inch so a replacement was ordered. However, I was rather dismayed at the absolutely horrible Monokote job done by the factory. All the edges were badly wrinkled.

Is this normal? Can it be fixed? I wasn't figuring on the additional cost of covering - iron, heat gun, material, etc. Plus I wanted the ARF because it was an ARF. What is it supposed to look like? I have never done any covering so your inputs would be appreciated.

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Old 09-23-2014, 07:05 AM   #12
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My fuse was cracked at the tail area, I sent them pics and it was replaced within seven days no problem.

Sometimes the plastic coverings (on even the best of models) can be wrinkled, I just place a wool baby sock or a piece of Tee shirt material over the head of my iron so it dosen't mark up the covering then simply iron them out.

If you're planning to stay with plastic covered models then your going to eventually need an iron at some stage because they do tend to wrinkle over time....Just go get an iron and take the wrinkles out, keep the iron moving over the covering... just don't hold the hot iron in any one place for too long.

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Old 09-23-2014, 06:02 PM   #13
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We are talking covering irons not clothes irons.
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Old 09-23-2014, 11:32 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Yakfishingfool View Post
We are talking covering irons not clothes irons.
Exactly where in my post did I even mention using anything resembling a "clothes iron"..........did you even read it, Duh ?

Taking wrinkles out of plastic covering (or applying new covering even) with a covering iron wrapped in cloth or a wool sock has been done for ever by people who build their models.... its been standard practice for decades.

Here's a pic of a commercially available sock for you in case you'd not seen one, you can also wrap the iron with a piece of tee shirt material if you don't have a sock....


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Old 09-23-2014, 11:35 PM   #15
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Hey Robster, relax ok? He was fearful of wrinkles maybe he didnt know what kind of iron you were talking about, just trying to help out in ironing his plane. Sorry if a little clarification was an insult to you. Never intended it to be that. S
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Old 09-23-2014, 11:43 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Yakfishingfool View Post
Hey Robster, relax ok? He was fearful of wrinkles maybe he didnt know what kind of iron you were talking about, just trying to help out in ironing his plane. Sorry if a little clarification was an insult to you. Never intended it to be that. S

No problem, its often difficult to differentiate between sarcasm and a genuine concern within a form of communication that lacks facial expression or intonation......I obviously misinterpreted your comment...my apologies to you sir for the prickly reply
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Old 09-23-2014, 11:56 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Yakfishingfool View Post
We are talking covering irons not clothes irons.
Yes, got it. I was planning on getting a covering iron, just didn't think I'd need one for an ARF that hadn't even flown yet!
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Old 09-24-2014, 01:26 AM   #18
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LOL, no problem, no harm no foul. Hard to read faces with only words. Since Cliff was worried about the common problems with monokote I thought maybe he was unclear on the irons.

Cliff, it really isn't a big deal and rather common, even with planes I make at home I have had to deal with a few wrinkles here and there. Fortunately the monokote is very forgiving and it will clean up just fine. It really is a nicely done arf. Scott
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Old 09-29-2014, 03:38 PM   #19
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Is there any real CG or weight benefit achieved by moving the elevator servo from the back to the front? When you consider the extra hardware needed, it seems it would be a wash, unless you could also eliminate some of the ballast up front.

Any opinions?

Cliff
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Old 09-29-2014, 04:33 PM   #20
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Cliff, you posted this in three threads. pick one and people will follow. Especially if you hit the new posts up at the top of the forum. My tail servo is set in the back. It is a tiny bit tail heavy. Better to use the servo weight forward and out a bell crank in the tail as that is less "lead" you need to carry. May still had to add weight with the forward servo's
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Old 09-30-2014, 02:48 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Yakfishingfool View Post
Cliff, you posted this in three threads. pick one and people will follow. Especially if you hit the new posts up at the top of the forum. My tail servo is set in the back. It is a tiny bit tail heavy. Better to use the servo weight forward and out a bell crank in the tail as that is less "lead" you need to carry. May still had to add weight with the forward servo's
What made me rethink moving the servo was the weight of the supplied rudder push rod (18g). It didn't seem sensible to me to ad another one plus a bell crank and hardware to replace a 9g micro. One of the guys in another forum indicated that you convert to carbon push rods for the mod. Now it makes sense. I can see how you could save an oz in the back if you did that. Plus it seems to me that adjusting mechanical servo throws in such a tight space would be a bit of a chore. It would be much better to have an adjustable clevis up at the servo. That's probably the path I'll choose.

Thanks for the info.

Cliff
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:51 PM   #22
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Default The Weight of a ARF Bird of Time Fuselage

The weight of a bare BOT fuselage is 12.05 oz. (342g). This weight does not include the portion of the nose cutoff to remove the ballast shot (20g). For further clarification , this is the weight of the fuse alone without ballast, servos, control rod(s), rudder, horizontal stab, etc. Just the fiberglass with integral wooden shelves and spacers.

The weight of the shot and glue plug is 8.4 oz (238g)

Measured on a Soehnle scale with accuracy of 0.05 oz. or 1.0 g.

Hope this data will be of help to all ARF BOT builders.

cliff
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