Wattflyer RC Network: RC Universe :: RCU Magazine :: RCU Forums :: RCU Classifieds :: RCU User Reviews :: RCU YouTube
Home Who's Online Calendar Today's Posts RealTime Post Spy Mark Forums Read
Go Back   WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft
Register Members List Wattflyer Extras Articles Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Social Groups

Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft Discuss and share your scratch built or kit built aircraft as well as building techniques, methods, mediums and resources.

Thank you for your support (hide ads)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-22-2012, 12:53 AM   #1
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default New scratch built foamie

Well I've been having a blast with my "plane #3" (see the end of the "It ain't pretty but..." thread), and am making a new version to address some of it's shortcomings. All the over-all dimensions are the same, but the new one will have a symmetrical KF airfoil (and generally stronger wing), a rudder, and better landing gear. The wing is complete and the fuselage is getting there:



As for the wing, I've been fooling around with some mild aerobatics, including inverted flying, and the first version is doing some rather alarming wing flexing in stuff like this. The new one should be quite a bit stiffer, and maybe preform better inverted. I dunno...

The addition of a rudder will hopefully make it so I can maneuver around on the ground some, and should also help with doing rolls.

I'm getting sick and tired of nosing over upon landing, so the new one has the main wheels way out front, and only as long as necessary to keep a 9" prop out of the grass. I'm also going to make it so the tail skid pivots, like a caster (ground handling, again).

If this thing works as well as I hope it will, I may even give it a name

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 01:36 AM   #2
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Managed to waddle out to the shop after turkey day and do a little work on the plane. The tail skid pivots maybe 30 degrees each way, and the fuselage is covered with red packing tape:




Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 05:18 AM   #3
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 18,675
View CHELLIE's Gallery13
Thanked 2,181 Times in 2,088 Posts
Club: Chino Renegades RC Flying Club
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Ambassador Award  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (4)
Friends: (314)
Default

Your plane is looking great use some Square hollow carbon fiber stock for the wing brace, depending on the wing thickness, i use 6mm to 10mm SQ CF tube, the Square CF will brace your wing to take wing loads of over 10 Gs, in the build below, I used a Slow Stick fuselage to brace the wing with, after the 6mm cf tube was bending a little after some flights, i added the SS fuselage, problem solved

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...katana+chellie

the blue plane below has a Slow Stick fuselage for a wing brace, it does not bend at all the wing is made from 9mm depron



New Carbon Rod and Tube We have received many requests to expand our carbon rod and tube line to different sizes. Well, we coaxed our manufaturers to make more sizes. We have several new sizes and shapes that have arrived. More shapes and sizes will be available in the future. Please contact us if there is a specific size or shape that you need. We will try to get that size/shape made. Carbon Rod 4.0mm x 1000mm (0.158 x 39 inches) - $3.82

Flat Carbon 1.0mm x 6mm x 1000mm (0.040 x 0.236 x 39 inches) - $2.12

Carbon Square Tube 4.0 mm OD x 2.5 mm ID x 1000 mm long (0.157 x 0.10 x 39 inches) - $4.46
Square hole
Carbon Square Tube 8.0 mm OD x 7.0 mm ID x 1000 mm long (0.31 x 0.28 x 39 inches) - $6.36
Square hole
Carbon Square Tube 10 mm OD x 8.5 mm ID x 1000 mm long (0.393 x 0.334 x 39 inches) - $9.54
Square hole
Carbon Square Tube 6.15 mm OD x 4.15 mm ID x 1000 mm long (0.24 x 0.16 x 39 inches) - $6.36
Square hole
Carbon Round Tube 7 mm OD x 5.5 mm ID x 1000mm (0.276 x 0.217 x 39 inches) - $4.24

Carbon Round Tube 8 mm OD x 6.5 mm ID x 1000mm (0.315 x 0.256 x 39 inches) - $5.30

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
CHELLIE is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 01:52 AM   #4
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

I'm going to try some of that carbon fiber stuff one of these days... In the mean time, this one's got a nice fine grained fir spar :-)

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 02:01 PM   #5
soarrich
Soarrich
 
soarrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 152
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Club: JCSF & MMAC
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Dave

It's looking good!

I wanted a stronger KFm airfoil, but I did not want to go the CF or spruce route so I brought the center piece of foam forward to within one inch of the leading edge of the wing. The center foam-board doesn't really add much strength, what it does do is it keeps the outer leading edge foam-board from buckling under load.

I built 3 Dollar Tree foam-board flying wings which I hope to do a thread on soon.



Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	KFm Airfoils modified.jpg
Views:	146
Size:	112.0 KB
ID:	164369  
soarrich is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 07:40 PM   #6
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

My airfoil is simpler than that - it's just three flat sheets sandwiched together, with the leading edge sanded to a round shape.

Motor, esc, receiver, and rudder & elevator servos installed:



The battery fastens to those scraps of velcro on the floor.

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 01:59 AM   #7
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Almost ready to go:



Just need to do the rudder & elevator linkages. Looks like the weather will be good Monday, so I'm hoping for the maiden flight then.

By the way, I discovered something NOT to do with this one: Before putting the colored tape on the wing I thought I'd put some waterborne polyurethane on the trailing edge & ailerons, thinking it might stiffen them somewhat. It may have done that, but the tape doesn't stick to it very well . So the covering on the ailerons is kinda baggy. I think they will work OK, but it ain't a good thing.

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 09:17 PM   #8
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Taxi tests indicate good ground handling. Everything is "go" for the maiden flight tomorrow

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 11:02 PM   #9
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Well the maiden flight(s) were a complete success! Flies like a champ and it can be taxied around on the ground (although I need more practice in the taxi on the ground thing ). Flew through 8 batteries with no crashes or nose-overs upon landing. Many inside and outside loops, lots of rolls (kinda ugly rolls - need more practice with that too). It's fun to fly! I had another club member (much more advanced than I) fly it and he liked it too. I'm pretty darn pleased, if you hadn't noticed .

There is hat-cam video, but it sucks, so I'm not posting any of it.

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 01:55 AM   #10
dahawk
Super Contributor
 
dahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 3,440
View dahawk's Gallery6
Thanked 211 Times in 207 Posts
Club: 114th RC Aero Squadron
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (19)
Default

DG,

Congrats on the maiden. I'm sure you're proud. It's always a great feeling when you have something you've designed and built actually fly.

Hat's off !

Hawk
dahawk is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:45 AM   #11
solentlife
Super Contributor
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 6,201
View solentlife's Gallery47
Thanked 266 Times in 263 Posts
Club: Founder Member Ventspils RC Club. Ex Waltham Chase and Meon Valley Soaring.
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Outstanding Contributor Award  125mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (15)
Default

On the pivoting tail skid ... one way to actually have control from a skid is to mount it in the rudder not on the fuselage.

Bent wire up the hinge line, last bit bent so it pushes into the rudder leading edge ... epoxy in place ... lower length is skid bent back ..

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
- Subscribe my Youtube: "solentlifeuk"
solentlife is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 01:08 AM   #12
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Thumbs up

Wow! Why didn't anyone tell me about this carbon fiber stuff? Oh wait...

Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
... carbon fiber stock for the wing brace ...
It's fantastic! I'm doing yet another Dollar Tree foam plane and this time I've put two .057" x .177" carbon fiber stiffeners in the wing. The thing is rigid!! . I'm really impressed.

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 11:02 PM   #13
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

The 4th version of this plane is ready for it's maiden flight tomorrow:



Went low wing this time, with carbon fiber reinforcement in the wing. It's got the same steerable tail skid as the biplane version - http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68865

40" wingspan, 13.5 oz (without battery).




Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 12:07 AM   #14
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

It flies! The lack of any dihedral and the low wing configuration make it a little "twitchy", but it's not too difficult to control... Need to pay attention though, that's for sure.

The weight of these planes keeps creeping up, and this 3rd (and heaviest) monoplane version obviously suffers from it. This one really needs a 3 cell battery to make it fun to fly... It flies OK on 2 cells, but it's not very lively. The first one weighs 11.55 oz, the second 12.85 oz, and this one 13.5 oz as flown today. (I've since removed pilot Mickey, which takes it down to an even 13 oz). The biplane version, at 15.4 oz (and lots more drag from struts), will just barely get off the ground on a 2 cell battery, but does pretty well on 3 cells. I'm learning

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 02:25 AM   #15
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 18,675
View CHELLIE's Gallery13
Thanked 2,181 Times in 2,088 Posts
Club: Chino Renegades RC Flying Club
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Ambassador Award  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (4)
Friends: (314)
Default

Very Nice Build Dave Put Mickey Back in the plane and use a 3 cell lipo, 2 cells dont work very well in most planes unless you have a high kv motor, Dont worry to much about the weight of the plane, you need a little plane weight to help the plane with momentum to get the plane through any stunts and wind, a little weight is your friend to much weight is not your friend Take care and have fun, Chellie

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
CHELLIE is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 12:48 AM   #16
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Don't worry, Mickey will fly again! Although Marvin the Martian is next in the rotation, I'm thinking .

Yesterday I took the new plane, and the first version (the one at the end of this thread: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...t=67824&page=2 ), out for comparison. The new one wins on ground handling & structural strength in the air (no wing flexing detected), but the old one is more stable, able to fly nicely on less power, and generally more enjoyable to fly. The old one just jumps off the ground on a 2 cell battery, the new one struggles to get up in the air on 2 cells. (The both have the same motor and prop, by the way.)

So I'm going to do another combining the best elements of each .

It's going to be high wing like the first, which I think adds some stability (weight hanging below the wing...). I'm going to do a non-symmetrical KF airfoil like the first, which I think probably gives more lift, and certainly presents a thinner leading edge - less drag. The wing will have a carbon fiber spar - I've got some square 4mm tube on order from BP Hobbies (thanks for the link, Chellie!). Same steerable tailskid and forward-placed main gear.

In addition to those things: full length ailerons, and wider ailerons and elevator (probably 1 1/2" instead of 1").

I think I might really have a nice plane after all this.

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:32 AM   #17
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

And here we go! My carbon fiber stuff arrived today so I've started on the wing. First I milled a 6061 aluminum center section for the 4mm CF spar, with 4 degrees of dihedral (about 1" at one tip of the 40" span) and epoxied and thread-wrapped the two sections of the spar to it. Here it is in place:



The wing on version 1 has a "ramp" after the "bump", but it's formed only by the packing tape covering spanning the gap, and it's un-even. So on this one I put in a tapered foam piece which the tape covering will be solidly adhered to:



So here's the whole wing so far:


Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 01:23 AM   #18
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

And the airframe is pretty much complete:



I tossed in the motor and ESC and it comes in a bit less than the first version, weight-wise, so I'm pretty well pleased

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 11:58 PM   #19
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

OK, ready to fly!





It weighs in at 12.5 oz with no battery - a little heavier than I wanted, but I think it will be fine. I guess those push rods and tubes weigh more than I thought...

It's not looking like the weather is going to cooperate for several days...

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 12:09 AM   #20
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Took it out this morning for the maiden, and 9 other ~6 minute flights! 32 degrees and spots of snow on the ground here and there, but pretty much no wind . Flies great! On a 3 cell battery it has enough power to do nice big inside or outside loops from level flight. On 2 cells it flies just fine - gotta dive a bit to do a loop, but it's no slug - takes off and climbs out with authority. Flies inverted just fine with the asymmetrical wing, and it's got excellent ground handling. Definitely my new favorite plane!

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 01:46 AM   #21
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

I wasn't going to make another of these, but.... .

The last one is a lot of fun to fly, but it lacks aileron authority. I'd like to be able to do nice snap rolls, and it just can't do it. (Contrary to what I said above, I did not make them wider, which was a mistake, I think.) So this new one has 1 1/2" wide, full length ailerons.

It turns out that the earlier versions have a somewhat weak aft fuselage. In a hard, nose-in crash they bend and kink a little behind the wing. So this one has balsa longerons in all four corners of the box-section fuselage. It's a lot stronger.

More power! The old ones all have cheap hobby king 1550 kv "donkey" motors*, which delivered about 14.5 oz of thrust with an 8 x 3.8 prop. For the new one I've got a HURC "power up 400 sport" http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...0-Sport/Detail which should be a big upgrade . The bigger motor alone adds an ounce to the weight... that plus the balsa reinforcements, I'm guessing we'll be at about 14-15 oz without battery, around 18 oz AUW. Should have considerably more thrust than weight .

Also put on a tail wheel instead of just a skid - I'm curious how much difference that makes in ground handling.

Airframe is pretty much done, need to do linkages, electrics, etc.






(* those "donkey" motors work great for a while, but the bronze bushings just don't last very long. One season, tops..., then there is no easy way to replace the bushings. Once again, you get what you pay for.)

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 02:20 AM   #22
road king 97
old hat
 
road king 97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: joliet il
Posts: 2,844
Thanked 218 Times in 214 Posts
Club: joliet rc club rt 66
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (15)
Default

I have to give credit where credit is due ,you can crank out some nice looking planes and fast . joe
road king 97 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 03:18 AM   #23
dahawk
Super Contributor
 
dahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 3,440
View dahawk's Gallery6
Thanked 211 Times in 207 Posts
Club: 114th RC Aero Squadron
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (19)
Default

Dgressimg,

Looks like a winner ! I'd almost like to see a low wing version of this, like the GP Escalade. Nice work !

-Hawk
dahawk is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 04:24 AM   #24
mclarkson
Super Contributor
 
mclarkson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,015
View mclarkson's Gallery4
Thanked 182 Times in 180 Posts
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (7)
Default

In my (admittedly limited) experience, wheels vs. skids makes a world of difference in ground handling.

mclarkson is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 08:06 PM   #25
dgjessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 540
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Club: Westerville Model Aeronautics Assoc.
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Thanks guys

dhawk - I did a low wing version - see post 13 above. It's a pretty good flyer as long as the wind isn't too strong.

Dave
AMA #56519
dgjessing is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Reply

  WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The "weird plane" scratch built foamie aap Foamies 1 05-21-2012 07:13 AM
Finding a COG on scratch built plane npowell28 Beginners 4 04-19-2012 06:13 PM
Giant Foamie F-15 Scratch Build Otto Dieffenbach Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft 44 11-20-2011 04:50 PM
Scratch Built Foam Setup computerman0219 Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft 40 06-07-2011 01:45 AM
Step 1.5 in my first scratch built foamie earthsciteach Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft 6 05-22-2011 08:10 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:14 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005 WattfFlyer.com
RCU Eflight HQ

Charities we support Select: Yorkie Rescue  ::  Crohn's & Colitis Foundation



Page generated in 0.80459 seconds with 72 queries