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Hi-Performance and Sailplanes RC hotliners, electric pylon racers, F5B, F5D, sailplanes and gliders

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Old 09-09-2012, 05:04 AM   #1
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Default Sig Hummer + NTM 28-36 3000kv = 100mph???

Most of the small 100 mph planes are pusher jets. My bid will be tractor driven. I chose the Sig Hummer kit because building is still an important part of the hobby to me. I know balsa better than foam. And I refuse to put any part of my body in front of a prop of any size turning 30,000+ rpms. I guess spotting the NTM motor on HobbyKing's website was what started me thinking about this project.

The only other electric Hummer that I know of was built by Jasmine2501. I posted on one of his threads a couple of weeks ago to get information from him, but he has not responded. His last post was more than 4 years ago.

The attached photos show some of the work that I have done in the last couple of weeks. The build is taking place on my dining room table. (You can do this if you're single.) The first thing I did was chop 3/4" off the nose since the plane was designed as a pylon racer for a light weight Cox 1/2A engine. I tried to taper the firewall as much a possible and still accommodate a 4S lipo in the front hatch. A top front hatch is something I am reluctant to compromise with since I don't like to remove the wing to change lipos. If I have to add weight to the tail to achieve this - so be it.

The wing has been beefed up with 1 x 4mm carbon strips on the main spars and 1/16" balsa webs between them. It is very stiff. One of the photos shows how I converted from rubber band wing attachment to a bolt-on wing.

Overall I am a bit disappointed with the kit that I received. Although the 1/16" die-cut ribs and lite ply pieces were cut cleanly, the 1/8" balsa tail pieces were merely printed and not cut. It reminded me of building an old Guillows rubber model that used to sell for a quarter. Finally, the 1/8" square front spar balsa provided was very light and soft with no grain. After breaking a spar 3 times just lifting the wing, I decided to crutch all the front spars by gluing another 1/8" square piece beneath the originals. Sig's more modern laser-cut kits are far superior.

When I get her built, I will hand launch with a good heave because the wing loading is likely to be quite high with only 212 sq. in. Here's the really scary part. I plan to fly it with HXT900 servos and a $29 transmitter that came with an RTF I bought several years ago. I am currently flying 6 planes with this faithful old transmitter, so please spare me the lecture. Just stay tuned to see what happens.


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Old 09-09-2012, 01:18 PM   #2
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looking good! i also love building and have modified several sig kits for ep. i also replace the stingers for a thicker pcs of balsa stick....1/8 will break if you look at it to hard.. , please post more pictures as you go and i hope you'll post your speed runs.

thanks for sharing!

2 mods on the same bird i built,the breezy day park flyers from sig were 3 channels ,but ailerons were easy mods and the yellow one i added counter balance on elev and rudder for looks mostly. both fly great but arn't fast. the landing of minnisport was across a large stream into the marsh lands...thank goodness it was winter or it would have been lost in marsh grass and thorns,,.
both these birds are very old hanging in the hanger do to not having space too program them into my tx.......like you,i should break out one of my micro spectrum tx and get orange rx's.


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narrow is the place to land...wide is the space to crash....choose the narrow way!
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:34 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Marc View Post
Most of the small 100 mph planes are pusher jets. My bid will be tractor driven. I chose the Sig Hummer kit because building is still an important part of the hobby to me. I know balsa better than foam.
Great project idea!

Originally Posted by Marc View Post
I tried to taper the firewall as much a possible and still accommodate a 4S lipo in the front hatch. A top front hatch is something I am reluctant to compromise with since I don't like to remove the wing to change lipos. If I have to add weight to the tail to achieve this - so be it.
Yep balance will be an issue but if speed is needed - 4s will sure help.

Originally Posted by Marc View Post
Overall I am a bit disappointed with the kit that I received. Although the 1/16" die-cut ribs and lite ply pieces were cut cleanly, the 1/8" balsa tail pieces were merely printed and not cut.
Yep that is typical SIG they are caught in the 70's and 80's with much of their stuff. Some new builds are better (Like the 4Star 20 EP) but they still "think" old school.

Originally Posted by Marc View Post
Here's the really scary part. I plan to fly it with HXT900 servos and a $29 transmitter that came with an RTF I bought several years ago. I am currently flying 6 planes with this faithful old transmitter, so please spare me the lecture. Just stay tuned to see what happens.
Many report good results with the HXT 900 servos. I bought 6 of them (or 8 can't remember) but had one out of box failure and another that wasn't centering well. They others have worked OK for me. I am not a fan - but that does not matter.

Good luck - keep us posted on your progress....

Mike
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:40 AM   #4
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I have made some progress on the Hummer kit as you can see from the attached photos. Before covering the model I temporarily mounted the motor, ESC, and receiver to test the components and get an idea about the balance. It will definitely need some lead in the tail with a lipo in the front hatch. I programmed the Turnigy Trust 45A ESC for medium timing and 16 kHz switching frequency using one of my 3S 3000mAh sport lipos. I ran the motor up on a 4.5x4.1 APC prop and all I can say is "WOW"! It is totally unlike any of my sport motors. There was no vibration or chatter. I was surprised that such a small prop could generate as much thrust as it did. I expect it will have unlimited vertical performance. It pulled 46 amps at 10.4 volts. If I go to a 4S lipo I will definitely need a larger ESC. I will order a pair of high discharge 2200mAh lipos to share with this plane since my old 2200's are beginning to puff anyway.

The next step is to hinge the control surfaces then install the hardware and linkages. I am leaving open the possibility of mounting the lipo above the wing if more than an ounce of tail weight is required. I'm thinking +/- 1/8" control throws should be enough for the maiden flight with a good firm toss. I'll post again when the model is finished.


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Old 10-05-2012, 02:40 AM   #5
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I finally got a pair of Turnigy 45-90C 3S Nano-Tech lipos so I could finish the model. They barely fit since they are much thicker that the 20C Zippy flat packs I've been running on my sport models. I may have to get a 35C Zippy Compact lipo if these start to puff. They are 5mm thinner. I considered mounting the ESC remotely, but thought it might not be a good idea with a high kv motor. 4S is not a possibility even if mounted above the wing due to my bolt-on wing configuration, so 100 mph is off the table. Maybe 85-90.

I had to add an ounce of self-adhesive tire weights under the stabilizer to get the correct CG even with the lipo set back 1.5". Sorry I don't build fancy models. Maybe I'll add a few racing decals after I fly it a few times. Every decent pylon racer should have a few sponsors.

Wingspan is 34". Wing area is 212.5 sq.in.. AUW is 24.75 oz. Wing loading is almost 17 oz./sq.ft. Control throws are +/- 1/8". The tiny 4.5x4.1 APC prop produces enough thrust for unlimited vertical. The model has 0 degrees incidence all around including 0 motor offset. I think the maiden flight will take a fairly hard toss with the right wing tipped slightly down in case it tries to roll left.

I want to show the model to a friend this weekend in case the unthinkable happens. After that I'll report on the maiden flight. If all goes well, I'll post a couple of doppler runs after that.


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Old 10-09-2012, 05:08 AM   #6
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I made the maiden flight this evening. Powered up to full throttle and gave it a firm toss with right wing tipped slightly down. Good straight launch. Powered back to cruising speed to test the controls. It didn't need any trim. It was only slightly touchy to the controls. I noticed that the motor cut out for a fraction of a second several times. These were so short that I couldn't tell if the controls were effected.

I made 3 or 4 hot passes without the motor being interrupted, but the controls became ridiculously sensitive. On the last pass I got too far out and did a couple of loops and whatnot but managed to save it. I decided to cut the flight short considering the problems I was having.

I had to go around a couple of times to land it. It coasts a long way even at low speed. I brought it in at the slowest possible speed with nose high and full up from about 6 feet altitude. The pasture is about a foot deep in lush grass, but the Sig Aerokote Lite that I covered the model with had a couple of punctures near the leading edge on the underside of the wing. It might be a fluke, but this never happened with standard covering.

Before I fly it again I think I need to:
  1. Remove some control throw in the ailerons and elevator.
  2. Patch the holes in the wing.
  3. Check all electrical connections. Possibly replace the receiver. The current receiver has an antenna that is a few inches short of the 39" tuned length for 72 mHz. Maybe add a ferrite ring to the ESC pigtail. Your recommendations are welcome.
This plane is incredibly fast compared to my sport planes. I'll get to work on it as soon as I change my britches.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:25 PM   #7
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NEWS BRIEF

The FAA reported that a single-engine aircraft crashed 8 miles east of Hemphill, Texas on Friday afternoon. Bystanders said that the aircraft cartwheeled down a private road as the pilot was attempting to clear a barbed wire fence and land in an adjacent pasture. The FAA immediately impounded the crash remains. FAA investigators believe that the aircraft ran out of fuel. The pilot's logbook indicated that this was the 4th flight of the experimental aircraft. The pilot was the only fatality.


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Old 10-31-2012, 06:08 AM   #8
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I finally got the Hummer repaired. Aside from the structural damage, I found a malfunctioning left aileron servo that was sending spurious signals back to the receiver. In addition, I found that the BEC was sending 12+ volts through to the receiver. I don't know if these two problems were related or even if they were a result of the crash. I replaced the defective servo and disconnected the red wire on the ESC and added a UBEC along with a ferrite ring. I also replaced the light covering on the bottom of the wing with standard covering.

The plane flies just as it did before the crash. Flight #5 revealed that there is still some glitching. Flight #6 went okay, but I momentarily lost sight of the plane on my landing approach and had to grease it in to avoid a barbed wire fence behind me. The only damage was a broken prop. I think it's time for some new glasses.

The Hummer is a handful without EXP or even D/R on my transmitter. The main problem remaining is that the plane climbs at full throttle, so I put a couple of washers behind the upper motor mount bolts to give 3-4 degrees of down thrust. Frankly, I expect this to exacerbate the problem since I have always believed that motor down thrust actually causes a plane to climb rather than hold the nose down. I will have the empirical evidence when I get to fly again next week. I want to get a doppler reading ASAP, but I need for the plane to track better to make a close pass by my video camera.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Marc View Post
I found a malfunctioning left aileron servo that was sending spurious signals back to the receiver. In addition, I found that the BEC was sending 12+ volts through to the receiver.
If that is the case - no doubt your servos are all toast. Most of them will fry at anything north of 8v or so.

I would replace them all...
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:49 PM   #10
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Default Doppler reading and spectacular crash

Yesterday afternoon was the perfect day to get a doppler reading on the Hummer. I set my camcorder on a tripod and launched the Hummer. I made 4 high passes over the camcorder. Not satisfied with the results, on the 5th and final pass I decided to take the plane down range a little further and lower making the turn at full throttle. As the green Hummer dropped below the tree line I lost sight of it as had happened before. I stayed with full throttle, but his time it didn't reappear. Finally, I heard that horrible crunch as the screaming sound of the motor stopped aburptly.

I walked down the field expecting to search for the plane until dark, but it didn't take long to spot the yellow underside to the wing hanging in a tree along the road. The plane had hit the trunk of the tree dead center. The crash was utterly devastating - possibly one of the worst in EP history. Click on the attached thumbnails to view the carnage.

When I got home, I processed the sound files that I had recorded. Only one of them produced a good doppler signature indicating a speed of just under 80 mph.

I am a former C/L combat competitor, so destroying a plane now and then is not a big deal. Nevertheless, any and all condolences will be appreciated.


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Old 11-22-2012, 12:03 AM   #11
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Marc I have been following your build and attempts for this speed demon. Dang if your gonna plant one this would be a tough act to follow.
Trust me I won't try and top ya on this one.
Dang that motor was implanted into the tree never saw that before!
Surprised that battery didn't go up in flames also.
You sir have my sympathy that is a pretty darn spectacular crash site to find.

Did the RX manage to survive the carnage, cause it doesn't look like anything is salvageable.
Well you know you had the right setup are you going to give it another try?
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:48 AM   #12
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Hi Gramps,

I guess the battery never had a chance to go up in flames because it was instantly and completely destroyed. The motor wires to the ESC were presumably cut by the prop. The BEC had failed earlier anyway. The receiver was also destroyed.

Here is a complete inventory of salvaged parts:
1 UBEC
2 Servos (which I wouldn't trust in a decent plane)
1 Y-Connector
1 72 mHz Crystal (found loose on the ground)
1 Control Horn
All together about $10-$15 worth of stuff.

I don't currently have plans to build another speed plane. It was fun while it lasted, but the Hummer was very twitchy even at the lowest control settings using my "el cheapo" transmitter. If I build another hot rod later, it will probably be a larger plane.
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:20 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Marc View Post
Hi Gramps,

I guess the battery never had a chance to go up in flames because it was instantly and completely destroyed. The motor wires to the ESC were presumably cut by the prop. The BEC had failed earlier anyway. The receiver was also destroyed.

Here is a complete inventory of salvaged parts:
1 UBEC
2 Servos (which I wouldn't trust in a decent plane)
1 Y-Connector
1 72 mHz Crystal (found loose on the ground)
1 Control Horn
All together about $10-$15 worth of stuff.

I don't currently have plans to build another speed plane. It was fun while it lasted, but the Hummer was very twitchy even at the lowest control settings using my "el cheapo" transmitter. If I build another hot rod later, it will probably be a larger plane.
Hi Marc Us CL Pilots sure know how to crunch a plane huh I started Model aviation with Cl when i was about 12 years old, Rcers is right, toss all of those 9 gram servos, they may have been hurt with the higher Bec voltage, they are cheap enough i have been buying some EFlite digital mini servos on EBay for super cheap, they came out of new EFlite helis how about $11.00 for 3 digital servos including shipping they are going in a Trex 450 Heli, Tape in your crystal in the receiver, so it does not vibrate loose and cause glitching or fall out, a problem with just about all 72 Mhz mini receivers, i use a piece of scotch tape to hold it in place with, and use Berg receivers, they dont cost any more than the others, but they are a Heck of a lot better, Ok, Build another plane and get back into the Air Take care and have fun, Chellie

BTW, I Overhaul Vintage CL McCoy, K&B, FOX and Johnson engines, look at my Youtube Home page
http://www.youtube.com/user/CHELLIE2408

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:28 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Marc View Post
Hi Gramps,

I guess the battery never had a chance to go up in flames because it was instantly and completely destroyed. The motor wires to the ESC were presumably cut by the prop. The BEC had failed earlier anyway. The receiver was also destroyed.
And a fine job of gratuitous destruction it was! I'd say you received full value for all lost components there. It was a worthy effort and a fine bit of dismemberment there. SALUTE!

It is so great when we can read about somebody who craters, but is not crushed in any way by the experience. I hope you get back into speed at some point.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:37 PM   #15
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I know you said to spare you the lecture back in post #1 but it sounds like with a better Tx you may well not have crashed. IMHO a decent Tx is the single best investment you could ever make in RC modelling.... But each to their own.

Steve
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:37 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Marc View Post
Hi Gramps,

I don't currently have plans to build another speed plane. It was fun while it lasted, but the Hummer was very twitchy even at the lowest control settings using my "el cheapo" transmitter. If I build another hot rod later, it will probably be a larger plane.

Marc I understand on not building another one. I have done the same with a couple of foam builds. It was fun while they lasted, but not enough to build new ones.
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