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Old 12-02-2012, 01:20 AM   #1
hangingon
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Default More help needed please

I got my Harbor cub up in the air with the new brushless setup & it flew great. But after the great flight time I landed and while on the ground I was going to do a ground take off. I chopped the throttle due to a good wind gust. I hit a curb in the parking lot the plane showed no real sign of damage so I was going to hand launch it when I throttled up the motor would not spin. It seemed to be glitching I came home pulled the prop off and throttled up and the motor spun I put the prop back on and back to not spinning then I checked all the connection plugged the battery back in and with the prop it ran. I throttled down then up it ran again I tried again and it wouldn't turn. When I frist plug the motor in it goes thru a series of beeps & it's ready to fly. Now the motor twitch's when I try to throttle up and it goes back into the power up mode and goes thru the series of beeps when I try to throttle up. Any clues will help. It's a hobbymate hb2806 motor 1650kv & hobbywing pentium 30a esc , orange rx receiver, tenergy lipo battery spektrum tx.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:48 AM   #2
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Have you made sure your motors connections weren't damaged? Are all the soldiered joints all right?

Take care and thanks for posting at WattFlyer!!

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Old 12-02-2012, 12:31 PM   #3
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It does sound like there is a bad/poor connection.
When you throttled up without the prop on the current was low enough for the connection to work so it ran.
With the prop on the higher current caused the connection to fail/go to high resistance so it stopped. As soon as it stopped the ESC cut the power anyway as a safety feature but then the voltage is restored so the ESC went through the normal start up routine.
Now the connection is so poor that the motor only stutters.
The only way to find the poor connection is to examine each in turn. You should be able to give any soldered connection (apart from those on the battery itself!) a good tug.
If you really can't find anything wrong with wiring or connections then you will probably have to replace bits one at a time until it works again.
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:28 PM   #4
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Thank you for the help. I worked on it going thru the programming of the ESC & just to check I plugged in my motor from my heli and it acted the same as the motor in my plane. So I ruled out the motor I think the connections is what I will recheck at this point it's working again right now but I don't want to get it in the air and have it to quit. I didn't think it hit hard enough to damage the motor it just has a couple scrapes on the prop. This was my first time buying a cheap priced brushless system so I feel unsure of the quality & durabilty of it. I have seen Hobbywing products but I always went with higher end name brand electronics in all my other rc stuff & I have never heard of Hobbymate motors but the combo ESC, motor 2 props & prop saver + free shipping for 20.00 bucks was worth a try I didn't feel it would be worth it to put alot of money into this plane.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:26 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by hangingon View Post
I plugged in my motor from my heli and it acted the same as the motor in my plane. So I ruled out the motor I think the connections is what I will recheck at this point
That's a basic diagnostic to sort out what is wrong > swap parts.
Bad connections will make a power system act as you describe. This can be a broken/shorted motor wire, bad solder joint, or bad ESC.

In an incident like that if you don't IMMEDIATELY chop the throttle a stopped prop with power on is a dead short. This can fry an ESC in seconds. Generally the ESC is more vulnerable than the motor but you can fry the insulation on that too. I suspect you have partly taken the ESC out (fried some of the FET's) and it'll act weird.

A bad motor can destroy an ESC. A bad ESC generally can't do any harm. A motor that jerks around or won't spin up properly RIGHT AWAY needs to be taken off power FAST, and the problem figured out.

It doesn't matter if it is cheap or expensive electronics. The above issues are the same. The cheap stuff just often breaks or fries easier.

fly
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:58 PM   #6
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If its working ok now then it is a poor connection somewhere.
The ESC, like all electronics, tend not to mend themselves, they either work or they don't!
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:09 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by quorneng View Post
If its working ok now then it is a poor connection somewhere.
The ESC, like all electronics, tend not to mend themselves, they either work or they don't!
I always suspect a bad connection first in these situations. OTOH I have had a couple ESC burn out a single FET and they just act weird. They sorta work making for difficult trouble shooting.
You can also get single wires broken in multi-strand windings (common on cheap Chinese motors), or an erratic bad connection in a badly soldered bullet, funky wire lead, and the like. This also adds challenge to the diagnostics.

If the motor works properly on a KNOWN GOOD ESC, then it's the motor.
And the other way around.

Unfortunately just about the only reasonably good way to test and ESC is swap it out. There are other ways to test a motor but swapping it out is the easiest for a newbie.

fly
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:51 PM   #8
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Thanks for the help I did hook the motor to my heli and it ran fine. It's going to be a connection bad or the esc it's self this was my first solder job on these types of tips. I tinned the wire ends & then filled the cup part of the tip and stuck the wire in while the solder was in liquid form but for quick cool down I used a paper towel with cold water and touched the bullet tip with the paper towel. That may have caused a weak joint. Plus I don't have the best soldering iron. I'm semi new to the planes I have had this harbor cub for a year now as of the 25th. I just did the brushless upgrade I have been in the hobby for for 20 something years mainly cars and I have a cx2 heli that I have had for 3 years & a Mini Titan e 325 which has not had any electronic problems at all other than me having to rebuild a servo from a crash. If the esc burned out it should have a burned oder I would think.
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:13 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by hangingon View Post
If the esc burned out it should have a burned oder I would think.
Wet paper towel - not a good idea I think.

Smell? Depends on the quality of your nose and the degree of damage. A single compromised FET is pretty tiny and encased in shrink.

fly
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:23 PM   #10
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Thanks!!!! so much guys it did turn out to be a bad connection on a motor lead wire on the esc. It is fixed now. I used a propane torch too heat it up and that wire is not comming lose. Time for a good soldering iron. One more ? on the prop saver it has the 2 screws to hold it on the shaft. Do you use loctite on those? I know on helis & cars loctite is used a good bit.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:04 PM   #11
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I don't but blue could be useful if you don't trust your feel for tightening properly. Some of the aluminum in these cheap parts is pretty low end too and strips easily.

fly
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:20 PM   #12
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Well it's back to acting up quit in the air but at least I landed with no damage. I'm going to see what the store says I bought it from. I could see this happing if I crashed but not bumping into a curb. Ihave knocked the nose off this thing with the old electronics gule & tape the plane back togather and go fly. I hooked the motor back up to my Mini Titan and just let it run and had no problem with the motor running.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:30 PM   #13
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Looking more like the ESC again. Best way to check that > swap it out. There are no good diagnostics and essentially no fixes unless it a simple bad bullet, broken wire or similar.

Unless your battery is getting lame and you are hitting LVC? That's a different issue, but worth considering.

In terms of fragility there are some components so lame they are dead on arrival or mere handling breaks the wires (some Tower Pro-crappy wire, soft shaft, and Blue Wonder-crappy wire stupidly threaded through a small hole, motors come to mind). Lots of these motors are wound with low grade thin wire by 'slave labor', no QA, and done fast. You paid $20, what you expect?

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Old 12-02-2012, 11:40 PM   #14
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I read reviews on the hobbywing esc I got. Most was all good. I thought the week link would be the motor. I know we get what we pay for in most cases. I seen where someone posted a vid on you tube & his esc cost more than the harbor cub but he had pulled it from a plane he crashed. I took a chance and lost. The plane did fly 10 times better than stock but it's not worth it to me to put too much into the plane it's small & 3ch & harbor frieght don't show it anymore on their web site. Hobbyking has this same plane no electronics for 20.00 so at this point my replacement parts came from HF so theres a good chance they will not keep parts in stock. If I had it to do over I would have left the Mini Titan on the store shelf & bought a good plane. Each crash has cost me around 80.00 every time I crash the heli 3 times so far that would buy a good plane. The cub was cheap so my wife let me get it and it gave me a chance to see if I would like rc planes. I have read that the harbor/sdm cub is hard to fly, can't take off from the ground and underpowered. It is underpowered you have to keep it full throttle I could do ground take offs & loops with it I had no trouble flying it once I switched to a better TX. I would love to get a good plane but between my wife & budget it's a fight she tells me I spent too much already. Thats why I need cheap!!! & now I might be hitting her up for a new ESC.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:09 AM   #15
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I agree, HW are generally one of the better ones. OTOH Castle Creations is often thought of as top notch but sometimes people that have spend $50-100 on one get burned. They generally do get customer service but that doesn't replace planes that crash. Like I said, this stuff is just pumped out in China. There is almost no QA at all.

Now, you said you bumped a curb. So you were under power-right. Depending on how you propped the plane, if you didn't chop the throttle immediately, and (once again) rotten luck, that alone may be enough to compromise the ESC.

Hmm, heli's.....a sink hole for $$$. I watched a guy at the field go broke trying to learn to fly one like a hot shot. Planes aren't cheap to get started but once you have the basics they and can fly decent, they can be pretty inexpensive. I got some foam scratch built I use for full combat with maybe $40 into it and it's been in literally dozens of hit and (usually worse) resulting ground crashes. Everything still works, though the motor IS rewound with MUCH better wire, and I do destroy props occasionally. Great fun for little $$.

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Old 12-03-2012, 03:37 AM   #16
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Just about all of the stuff is comming out of China now. I'm sure even the big name brands are China made. My thunder tiger electronics which is ace rc is made in Taiwan but it's held up well. My Mini Titan was around 520.00, cx2 180.00 and it has a load of upgrades, My 1/8 nitro Ofna buggy was close to 600.00 & the rc10gt in the 300.00+ range after the aftermarket upgrades and a few electric cars rc10, rc10T, bolink pan car and a few others I got rid of all the electric cars I gave most of them away to friends & family. I still have the 2 nitros their pretty old and both need new motors or pistons & seleves and my helis and their again the Mini has been setting over a year and it needs another 80 bucks in parts once I fix it i'm selling it this time I can't enjoy flying it 1 sec your in control the next you found earth and very quick. As far as my curb hit I had chopped the throttle it hit dead center of the prop it's barley got a mark on it you have to look for it I was going to take off from the ground & the plane wanted to go into a right turn so i gave it left rudder and chopped the throttle I went 3 to 4 feet before hitting the curb. I may have not shut it down quick enough or not all the way and I have no brake dialed in either. I do know all too well to chop the throttle. I was lookin at parkzone & E-flite esc their as much as the plane almost. It looks like another Hobbywing or one from Hobbyking USA warehouse.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:48 AM   #17
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Flydiver to let you know I contacted the seller and now I don't know what I'm getting. I got an email that they sent a new combo out on the 4th I responded about the return of the one I have & they told me what I needed to know to send it back. I thought ok thats good. I let them know it would be saturday before I can get to the post office today was a new email they are sending me a new esc asap and to just return my esc. Now I have to see what they have sent to know what I need to send back.
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:05 PM   #18
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Thanks to all for your help I know this is a few weeks old now I just wanted to post an update the seller sent me a new esc and everything is working good now & I got to get a few flights in with the brushless setup and I'm getting used to how the plane handles now and I'm able to relax a little while flying.
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