Wattflyer RC Network: RC Universe :: RCU Magazine :: RCU Forums :: RCU Classifieds :: RCU User Reviews :: RCU YouTube
Home Who's Online Calendar Today's Posts RealTime Post Spy Mark Forums Read
Go Back   WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Beginners
Register Members List Wattflyer Extras Articles Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Social Groups

Beginners New to e-power flying? Get the low down in here from experienced e-power RC pilots!

Thank you for your support (hide ads)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2012, 04:39 AM   #151
kyleservicetech
Dennis V
 
kyleservicetech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,217
Thanked 704 Times in 686 Posts
Club: www.racinercclub.com (I'm the newsletter editor)
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award  3kW  2kW  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (20)
Default

Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
UBEC, to the best of my understanding, is a brand name.

Interesting!

I just googled uBEC and found a number of hits. One of the hits is a company with the UBEC initials that manufactures Radio equipment.
http://www.ubec.com.tw/en_about.php?...&company_id=28

Most of the hits were by several different suppliers of switching power supply type BEC's such as this one: It has UBEC right on the uBEC.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Reduction.html

Looks like the company ubec, and the familiar hobby uBEC are completely different products.

Learn something new every day!

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
kyleservicetech is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 04:46 AM   #152
hoghead5150
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: poteau, oklahoma
Posts: 150
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (2)
Default

UBEC was a brand name, well the company that released a switching bec called it the UBEC and the name kinda became a catch all for other companies to use for their switching bec's.

either way tho, the best bec to use is a switching style, and in all honesty its best to use an external bec. while the bec inside most esc's will be adequate they do build heat, and the more heat you can keep away from your esc the better you are.
hoghead5150 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 04:53 AM   #153
kyleservicetech
Dennis V
 
kyleservicetech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,217
Thanked 704 Times in 686 Posts
Club: www.racinercclub.com (I'm the newsletter editor)
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award  3kW  2kW  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (20)
Default

Originally Posted by hoghead5150 View Post
UBEC was a brand name, well the company that released a switching bec called it the UBEC and the name kinda became a catch all for other companies to use for their switching bec's.

either way tho, the best bec to use is a switching style, and in all honesty its best to use an external bec. while the bec inside most esc's will be adequate they do build heat, and the more heat you can keep away from your esc the better you are.
Yup, kind of like Kleenex!

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
kyleservicetech is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 05:36 AM   #154
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,381
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

UBEC came from the product called the ultimate BEC
http://www.aeromicro.com/Catalog/koo...5v_3982367.htm

I normally use the BEC in the ESC. Never had a problem.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 06:48 PM   #155
dahawk
Super Contributor
 
dahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 3,440
View dahawk's Gallery6
Thanked 211 Times in 207 Posts
Club: 114th RC Aero Squadron
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (19)
Default

Guys,

Putting together an ARF I won at a fundraiser/fly-in raffle. It's a YAK-54 Groupe Tranchant from HK . Fiberglass fuse, balsa 1385mm WS. Flying weight will be ~ 5.5 -6.0 lbs. I won't be doing true 3D flying, at least not initially. Mainly sport aerobatics.

Already have a 500KV 1300Watt EMP 4620 motor and a 80 amp ESC. Now for the servos. Need something in the 38g range. The Hitec 225 (Deuce and quarter) are very nice but dang, very pricey. Can anyone recommend a good alternative based on experience? I'm looking at Turnigy, Emax, Corona metal gear, etc.

Cheers,

-Hawk
dahawk is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 01:36 AM   #156
kyleservicetech
Dennis V
 
kyleservicetech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,217
Thanked 704 Times in 686 Posts
Club: www.racinercclub.com (I'm the newsletter editor)
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award  3kW  2kW  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (20)
Default

Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Guys,

Putting together an ARF I won at a fundraiser/fly-in raffle. It's a YAK-54 Groupe Tranchant from HK . Fiberglass fuse, balsa 1385mm WS. Flying weight will be ~ 5.5 -6.0 lbs. I won't be doing true 3D flying, at least not initially. Mainly sport aerobatics.

Already have a 500KV 1300Watt EMP 4620 motor and a 80 amp ESC. Now for the servos. Need something in the 38g range. The Hitec 225 (Deuce and quarter) are very nice but dang, very pricey. Can anyone recommend a good alternative based on experience? I'm looking at Turnigy, Emax, Corona metal gear, etc.

Cheers,

-Hawk
Do you need the smaller sized servos? If standard servos will fit, check these out.
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...2-Deluxe-Servo

I don't know the size of the control surfaces, or how much throw you are putting on them. With a 1300 watt power system, you don't want under powered servos.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
kyleservicetech is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 05:24 PM   #157
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,381
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

I added a servo calculator to the first post, for anyone who is interested.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 12:45 AM   #158
DanWard
Member
 
DanWard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Deer Park, Tx (East side of Houston)
Posts: 178
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
I added a servo calculator to the first post, for anyone who is interested.

Thank you!
DanWard is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 08:53 PM   #159
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,381
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

While this is an electric forum, I would be interested if any of you have experience with servos used in glow planes.

Glow planes produce a LOT of vibration where electric planes produce almost none. How does all that vibration impact the servos?

Do they wear out faster?
Do you have to pad them in some way?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:03 PM   #160
Turner
Super Contributor
 
Turner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 1,377
Thanked 130 Times in 128 Posts
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (3)
Default

No personal glow experience yet but a lot of standard size servos come with rubber mounts.
Turner is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:36 PM   #161
kyleservicetech
Dennis V
 
kyleservicetech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,217
Thanked 704 Times in 686 Posts
Club: www.racinercclub.com (I'm the newsletter editor)
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award  3kW  2kW  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (20)
Default

Originally Posted by Turner View Post
No personal glow experience yet but a lot of standard size servos come with rubber mounts.
Yeah
I checked vibration levels on that guys model with the twin cylinder gasser, wasn't much difference between the servo and its rubber grommet mounts, and the mount itself.

Take a look:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66525

Back in the mid 1960's I ran glow engines with the servos of that time that used "Stand Up Components". Vibration on those components resulted in them breaking off during flight. About every 20-30 flights.

The modern radio systems with surface mounted components got rid of a lot of those types of issues.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
kyleservicetech is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 12:56 AM   #162
Voltron
Member
 
Voltron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Finger Lakes Region, NY
Posts: 373
Thanked 44 Times in 39 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (2)
Default

I've been flying glow planes for over 20 years and have never really had any vibration related servo problems. When I first started flying, I did have a vibration issue that affected my receiver. I used a metal rod with a z bend to connect to the throttle lever on my carb. At one point the rod was close enought to contact the engine case. At a certain RPM, the metal rod vibrating against the engine would create a radio freuency in the spectrum that affected my receiver. The servos would go crazy jumping back and forth and the plane became uncontrollable. Fortunately the throttle would still react to my transmitter and when I cut the throttle the servos would work fine. At that time I was so inexperienced, I had no idea what was causing the problem. A more experienced flyer in our club found the problem. I thought he was crazy at first, but we adjusted the rod away from the engine case and it never happened again.
Voltron is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 01:32 AM   #163
kyleservicetech
Dennis V
 
kyleservicetech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,217
Thanked 704 Times in 686 Posts
Club: www.racinercclub.com (I'm the newsletter editor)
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award  3kW  2kW  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (20)
Default

Originally Posted by Voltron View Post
I've been flying glow planes for over 20 years and have never really had any vibration related servo problems. When I first started flying, I did have a vibration issue that affected my receiver. I used a metal rod with a z bend to connect to the throttle lever on my carb. At one point the rod was close enought to contact the engine case. At a certain RPM, the metal rod vibrating against the engine would create a radio freuency in the spectrum that affected my receiver. The servos would go crazy jumping back and forth and the plane became uncontrollable. Fortunately the throttle would still react to my transmitter and when I cut the throttle the servos would work fine. At that time I was so inexperienced, I had no idea what was causing the problem. A more experienced flyer in our club found the problem. I thought he was crazy at first, but we adjusted the rod away from the engine case and it never happened again.

Nice thing about that 2.4 Ghz radio frequency. It's very difficult to accidentally generate 2.4 Ghz, and mechanical vibration of things like servo linkages is not one that will.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
kyleservicetech is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 01:44 AM   #164
flypaper 2
Super Contributor
 
flypaper 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Kingston Ont. Can.
Posts: 1,171
Thanked 41 Times in 41 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default

The 72 radios were more susceptible to noise. We used nyrods from the servo to the motor as the metal pushrod acted like an ant. and could cause interference. Also, if you had a metal arm on the carb, you had to use a plastic connector on the pushrod. The metal to metal from carb arm to metal connector could also cause interference. 2.4 radios are not so prone to this kind of interference, although ign. noise can still cause problems.

Gord.

Gord.
flypaper 2 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 03:56 AM   #165
Stevephoon
Super Contributor
 
Stevephoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: White Lake, MI
Posts: 1,007
View Stevephoon's Gallery67
Thanked 105 Times in 103 Posts
Club: United Flying Organization
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (7)
Default EMax ES08MA Servo Failure

Wow... A month or so ago I had a servo fail while flying my SA Daddy-O. Luckily, it was one of the two aileron servos and it failed in a neutral position. I landed the plane fine after noticing that the ailerons were not as effective and needed some odd trim.... This was after flying for 3 minutes or so. These servos have been in this plane since day one. At least 20 months. I've been flying this plane a lot over the last two summers. Most likely hundreds of flights.

Anyway... After I landed I saw that one aileron no longer worked. I pulled out the servo at the field to check the extensions. They looked OK. The servo itself had a large buldge in the middle. I had another servo at home, so I went home and put in a new servo of the same type and went back to flying. Everything has worked great for a month or more with the replaced servo, same extension wires, same RX, same ESC/BEC....

Now I have finally opened up the dead servo and.... the entire circuit board is burned to a crisp. After being in use for two flying seasons in the plane I fly the most.

Makes me say.... hmmmmmmmmm replace all of them ???

Steve


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN0856_042.jpg
Views:	59
Size:	141.9 KB
ID:	164639   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN0862_043.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	101.1 KB
ID:	164640  

Growing the fleet!
Stevephoon is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 04:00 AM   #166
kyleservicetech
Dennis V
 
kyleservicetech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,217
Thanked 704 Times in 686 Posts
Club: www.racinercclub.com (I'm the newsletter editor)
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award  3kW  2kW  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (20)
Default

Originally Posted by Stevephoon View Post
Wow... A month or so ago I had a servo fail while flying my SA Daddy-O. Luckily, it was one of the two aileron servos and it failed in a neutral position. I landed the plane fine after noticing that the ailerons were not as effective and needed some odd trim.... This was after flying for 3 minutes or so. These servos have been in this plane since day one. At least 20 months. I've been flying this plane a lot over the last two summers. Most likely hundreds of flights.

Anyway... After I landed I saw that one aileron no longer worked. I pulled out the servo at the field to check the extensions. They looked OK. The servo itself had a large buldge in the middle. I had another servo at home, so I went home and put in a new servo of the same type and went back to flying. Everything has worked great for a month or more with the replaced servo, same extension wires, same RX, same ESC/BEC....

Now I have finally opened up the dead servo and.... the entire circuit board is burned to a crisp. After being in use for two flying seasons in the plane I fly the most.

Makes me say.... hmmmmmmmmm replace all of them ???

Steve
Yeah
I've got video of a giant scale gasser model going in at a local fun fly last summer. IMHO, the servo in the aileron got overworked, and smoked. Unfortunately the servo electronics shorted out, burned up all the wires between the servo and the A123 receiver battery pack.

Your failure could have been a lot worse!

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
kyleservicetech is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 05:00 AM   #167
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,381
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Here is an idea.

Go to the servo calcualtor I posted earlier in the thread. Put in your surface dimmensions and your aircraft's pitch speed. Now run the calculator and see what torque is recommended. Add 30% to allow for inflated specs and for things like dives. Are your servos up to that?

The other thing to look at is your wire. If these are big servos and/or digitals, they may be trying to pull more than the wire can supply meaning a voltage drop. Could result in servo problems.

Look at the gears in the bad servo. Do they look worn or cracked? If they are they could have been binding. A bound/stalled servo is going to pull a ton of power which can burn up the servo.

Things to check.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 12:42 AM   #168
nidly
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 130
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Thanks for doing this thread. I am interested in the calc because I'd like to learn how to select servos. I'm satisfied with allowing the calc do it for me , but I get some surprising results. At least I am surprised. This is not unlike an online calc I tried and get the same thing.

Let's do my GP e-stik since it is the one I want to work on and it seems the factory put in a much bigger elevator servo than I come up with.

I'm putting in 66 mph and elevator at 4x50x10 deg from center
For rudder I put in 8x17x50 deg from center

The rudder needs 37 in-oz and the elevator needs 1 in-oz. I can go along with this since it is pretty easy to visualise when looking at the plane (especially when the surfaces are worked)

aileron needs 8 oz-in according to the calc , but I'm not interested in downsizing that one even though it appears to be oversized too.


One doesn't have to be an engineer to be able to say "Yea, that rudder is going to need a lot more torque than the elevator" I guess the question then becomes why did the factory overspec the elevator servo so much? Can I get away with a very small weak one? The factory has used identical servos in all three controls ES-80 http://www.electrifly.com/miscproducts/gpmm1210.html
nidly is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 01:04 AM   #169
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,381
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Because if you only need 10 oz and they HS-55 is 16 oz, well that works.

Most of our servos are over capacity and that is not a bad thing.

your typical home PC runs at less than 20% utilization. You know anyone going out looking for slower PCs?

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 01:09 AM   #170
nidly
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 130
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

I suppose since the price difference is minimal then they just picked the largest requirement and used it for all three positions in the same plane. Easier for parts,manuals,pics,ect.

I think that since the rudder needs 37 and the es-80 has 32 I will leave it , the ailerons don't work real smooth and bind toward the ends of their travel that I will leave the servo there as well. It needs 8 and I can easily see that the ailerons could use double or triple that figure because of the way they are designed. The elevator however moves nicely and smoothly with zero binding and even if I double the manual's recommended throw up to 20 degrees I can still get away with 4 oz-in. I'm sure I could use a 8 oz-in servo for elevator , right?
nidly is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 02:43 AM   #171
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,381
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

The ailerons bind, or does the servo bind, or does or the control rod bind? Binding is not good. Binding leads to breaking or overload or overheated BEC or other nasty things.

What is binding?

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 02:53 AM   #172
nidly
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 130
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

It's just the way the factory made the aileron controls. It comes covered so I'm not even sure what's inside the wing , but two rods stick straight down and hook to only one servo. I'm not worried about it, I have two other wings that are the same way. Maybe they are just at the end of their travel hitting something inside. I don't quite use all that travel anyways and I'm happy with the single aileron servo and roll performance. They just seem to take a lot of effort to move them. It's probably a rather poor design , I've just never been inside the wing before.
nidly is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 02:57 AM   #173
nidly
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 130
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

It is pg 7 of this manual , but I'm not changing anything on the ailerons or going to double servos at this time. http://manuals.hobbico.com/gpm/gpma7500-manual.pdf The most I might do is to cut some of the covering and trim some wood around those two rods for more travel. I may also adjust the length of the rods that stick out of the bottom.
nidly is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 03:14 AM   #174
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,381
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Looks like they are operated by torque rods. Looks fine in the photo.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 03:16 AM   #175
flypaper 2
Super Contributor
 
flypaper 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Kingston Ont. Can.
Posts: 1,171
Thanked 41 Times in 41 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default

Your on the right track. Unhook the pushrod connector from the ail vertical wires where they come out of the wing and make sure the slots are long enough when you give full ail control with the trans. You can feel any stress when you move the ail wirs by hand.

Gord

Gord.
flypaper 2 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Reply

  WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Beginners

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Voltage regulator for LiFe RX battery? Henry111 Power Systems 21 10-09-2011 09:09 AM
Sold 10-packs of HXT900 Servos - $50 Shipped crxmanpat Radio Equipment For Sale & WTB 0 08-11-2011 11:55 PM
3S or 4S Battery Question(s) RCFlyer44 Power Systems 22 03-29-2011 05:55 AM
For Sale Aluminum Servo Mounts for 5g and 9g Servos !NEW DESIGN WITH MORE COMPATIBLE SERVOS! terrynshed Radio Equipment For Sale & WTB 0 02-04-2011 09:33 AM
For Sale Aluminum Servo Mounts for 5g and 9g Servos terrynshed Radio Equipment For Sale & WTB 0 11-19-2010 08:48 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:03 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005 WattfFlyer.com
RCU Eflight HQ

Charities we support Select: Yorkie Rescue  ::  Crohn's & Colitis Foundation



Page generated in 0.74884 seconds with 73 queries