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Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

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Old 12-14-2012, 05:23 AM   #1
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Default Another GWS Me 262 thread...

Over the last few years I have read a number of threads on the GWS Me 262, mostly on RCgroups. I know the plane has been around for quite some time, and has not been imported into Australia for years, but I managed to piece one together just recently. There is no point in doing a build/assembly thread, as it has been done quite extensively, but I am curious if anyone out there has some input. Unfortunately I can't post photo's, as my camera died, but anyone interested knows what they look like anyway. So......if any past or present owneres have some feedback, advice, horror stories etc please feel free to chime in. I maiden mine tomorrow, so maybe some last minute info may prevent a total disaster....cheers
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:12 PM   #2
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Talking

Good luck with the maiden Micheal.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:06 PM   #3
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Default biding my time

Originally Posted by baz49exe View Post
Good luck with the maiden Micheal.
Thanks for the thumbs up Barry It's pouring rain now, so I'll have to wait. I ended up covering it in the clear tape that was so successful with the F22, ( not a drop of glue anywhere) and have figured out how to get the enamel paint to stick. If she flies well, we'll give her a nice colour scheme. I only paid about $35.00 for the the plane, and had a box full of EDF's left over from my previous experimentals. Add in the other box fulls of spare servo's, esc's, motors etc, and it is a very inexpensive project. Having to land on the nacelles is a bit nerve wracking, as I can't use landing gear, but the paddocks around me are waist high in oats, so it should absorb the shock. Bi-directional tape on the underside will help. The nose looks horribly fragile, being made from very thin plastic, so maybe a mod will be in order. All in all though, it is nearly totally stock, so it will give me a good starting point for comparisons. More later, cheers....
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:15 AM   #4
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Default

Originally Posted by pattern14 View Post
The nose looks horribly fragile, being made from very thin plastic, so maybe a mod will be in order.
They are fragile. I have a spare one for my current Microfan version, if I ever get around to flying it.

The 262 nose protector will fix you right up though Michael. Here you go:


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Old 12-15-2012, 08:44 AM   #5
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I have seen 4 of these (the GWS ME 262) fly. All were built a little differently and all flew very well. If there is a NOTICEABLE change in the tone of the fans - as though they are out of sync - land immediately!! The fans need to be close in rpm and thrust for successful flight. Very stable plane though in the air and they Do look the part when flying. I have dozens of photos of these flying and they all flew great.

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It isn't the mistake that causes the crash - it's the time it takes to realize that it WAS a mistake!!
AMA884978
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:03 PM   #6
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Default

Originally Posted by Bill G View Post
They are fragile. I have a spare one for my current Microfan version, if I ever get around to flying it.

The 262 nose protector will fix you right up though Michael. Here you go:
Not as ugly as my mother in law, but it does look robust enough. Maybe I should just replace it with an EPP one regardless
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:14 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by hillbille View Post
I have seen 4 of these (the GWS ME 262) fly. All were built a little differently and all flew very well. If there is a NOTICEABLE change in the tone of the fans - as though they are out of sync - land immediately!! The fans need to be close in rpm and thrust for successful flight. Very stable plane though in the air and they Do look the part when flying. I have dozens of photos of these flying and they all flew great.

Hillbille
Good to hear that Hillbillie I read some unkind remarks over on RCG's, comparing it unfavourably with the new Dynam 262, but RC groups does seem a little more aggro than Wattflyer. Don't hear much about the CC Lee version, or the HET or Flying Styro models either. My pusher prop S&B 262 has been amazingly tough and still flies very well after countless big crashes, stuck in trees for months, drowned in dams and rammed in combat. It is very unlikely that the GWS EPO will be that resilient, so I'll be a lot more reserved with it. Depending on performance, I may even fit EPP nacelles with pusher props as well, but lets see how it flies stock first. Heres hoping for a reasonable day tomorrow
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:43 PM   #8
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Default looking promising

The weather did not seem to be getting any better, so i decided to give it a shot anyway. With the wind gusting and swirling, I made a shaky handlaunch, and (surprise surprise ) she went up and stayed there. Aileron response was more than expected, almost flipping it into the ground initially, but settled down soon after. There was a sudden loss of power, and then all was good, followed by another stutter. At that point I should have landed and checked things, but she seemed eager to fly, and dealing with the wind fairly well. Then on the next circuit, as I got the trims sorted to fly hands off, all power and control disappeared, and she came down in the oat filled paddock about 120 metres away. Luckily the thick crops had buffered the impromptu landing, and there was only minor damage. Close inspection revealed that the Rx is the culprit, as there appeared to be a glitch on ground checking, so I'll replace it with a new one. That ludicrous plastic nose shattered though, so now I have an excuse to make one from EPP, and devise a more practical battery hatch. The spring clip loaded twisting nose cap is ingenious, but not to my liking. Still, she appears to fly well, handlaunches easy enough, and has adequate power ( for an EDF). watch this space
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:40 PM   #9
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Default Gws me-262

Hello Pattern14, I have flown my GWS ME-262 for 4 seasons with about 100 flites on it. It is a very good flyer as mentioned earlier. I think the key to consistant flights is to use a high enough C rating for the battery ( at least 30c) and make sure the timing is the same (high) on the ESC's. Having the ESC's matched properly will ensure that the fans spool up together at the same RPM, especiaaly at mid-throttle as you start your take off run. I fly mine off of grass(short) with no problems. With a 2200mah, 3cell, my plane was a little nose heavy and needed some wt added to the tail. A 1800mah 3 cell would most likely balance OK, but flite times would be rather short. It does like to land fast, so fly it in all the way down on final with power. The plane can sink quickly without the fans turning. It does fly fast and does not need much elevator or aileron travel to be responsive. You can easily cruise around on 3/4 throttle and roll and loop it at those settings. The only other advise I can give is to put a splash of contrasting colors on it to prevent loosing orientation on a cloudy day. Yellow on the jet nacelles intake helps. Hope this helps.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:56 PM   #10
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Default Gws me -262

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Old 12-19-2012, 01:34 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by N42375 View Post
Hello Pattern14, I have flown my GWS ME-262 for 4 seasons with about 100 flites on it. It is a very good flyer as mentioned earlier. I think the key to consistant flights is to use a high enough C rating for the battery ( at least 30c) and make sure the timing is the same (high) on the ESC's. Having the ESC's matched properly will ensure that the fans spool up together at the same RPM, especiaaly at mid-throttle as you start your take off run. I fly mine off of grass(short) with no problems. With a 2200mah, 3cell, my plane was a little nose heavy and needed some wt added to the tail. A 1800mah 3 cell would most likely balance OK, but flite times would be rather short. It does like to land fast, so fly it in all the way down on final with power. The plane can sink quickly without the fans turning. It does fly fast and does not need much elevator or aileron travel to be responsive. You can easily cruise around on 3/4 throttle and roll and loop it at those settings. The only other advise I can give is to put a splash of contrasting colors on it to prevent loosing orientation on a cloudy day. Yellow on the jet nacelles intake helps. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the input there N42375. I've deleted the landing gear and rudder servo plus hardware, so she is handlaunch only. Saves a bit of weight, but is a little hard on those nacelles. The COG at 65mm seemed spot on, but it was fairly breezy at the time, so I could theoretically move it back a fraction for calm days. I did find flying into the wind was quite OK, and slowed it down well enough for a gentle practice landing. Right now I have cut out a battery hatch and made a new nose from EPP, so I'll see how she goes once the thunderstorms finally go away. More later...cheers
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:01 AM   #12
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Default getting there

The EPP nose is finished, and ended up shaping very well; I used photo's and my sons scale 1/48 tamiya Me 262 as a guide. The bottom of the fuse just aft of the new nose has been cut out to accept a 3s 2200mah lipo, and I have fashioned a coreflute hatch ( with cooling slots) hinged at the front. Air is now able to circulate around it, and I plan to burn 4 cannon holes and insert hollow tubes as additional airflow. Some further inspection showed up some other cracks that i repaired with gorilla glue, but most annoying was the EDF unit damage. Both units were cracked around the motor mounts, which made for a horrible noise and vibration when started, so both had to be replaced. The motors and fans were fine, just the housings had cracks all over them. Luckily my box of EDf units still had two more units, but it does add another dimension to impact damage. All my previous EDF mishaps have never resulted in housing damage, only broken impellor blades, so I guess I'll have to be a little more carefull with this one. Just have to keep in mind that none of these foam kits are EPP, so I'll have to "re adjust" my flying style. Still, I'm looking forward to getting in some good flights though. The other mod is a 'grab handle" under the wing centre section, directly below the COG. Made from EPP as well, it makes handlaunching so much easier, and has been used successfully on my other low wing planes. Trying to hold a warbird with one hand around a thick fuse behind the wings while launching is tricky at best. The plane tends to nose down, as you are gripping way behind the COG, and it keeps your fingers away from everything as well. It blends in pretty well with the aircrafts lines, and adds strength to the wing join...more later...
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:43 AM   #13
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Default ME-262

Pattern14, Have you considered putting clear packing tape on the bottom of the nacells? It keeps the paint from being scuffed and helps keep the foam intact on those belly landings.
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:14 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by N42375 View Post
Pattern14, Have you considered putting clear packing tape on the bottom of the nacells? It keeps the paint from being scuffed and helps keep the foam intact on those belly landings.
Thanks for the advice there. I've been using packing tape on my planes for about 5 years now, as I usually cover my EPP ones with it. paint does not stick (or anything else for that matter) to EPP unless you use 3m77 spray as a base adhesive. I've only just gotten into the "eggshell" foamies i.e, eps, epo, elapor, z foam, etc, in the last 12 months, and they are extremely brittle by comparison. Normally I will cover them with bi directional tape on hard wearing areas, like noses, wing LE's, and of course, underneath. The nacelles on the 262 are currently using this with packing tape over the top of it, as bi-directional tape degrades in direct sunlight. The secret is to keep them as light as possible to reduce kinetic energy on impact, and apply the tape transversely and overlapping to provide maximum strength for minimum weight. It also provides some "give" as well, instead of the stiff glass cloth method favoured on Wattflyer. My starmax He 162 is the most fragile plane imaginable, and has survived numerous hard landings using this method. The foam used on GWS planes seems more durable than this, so I'm hoping It will stand up to it. Once the weather complies, I'll find out...cheers
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:36 AM   #15
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Another weak area, thinking of nacelles, is that GWS did not run the rear wing CF tube under the nacelle, but instead it ends before the nacelle. I saw one where the wings sheared forward in a hard landing due to this stress concentration at the nacelles, and lengthened the CF rod when I built the plane to avoid that issue.

I built a 262 before the CC Lee, that was very similar. It actually flew reasonably well with an undercamber wing and rud/elev. Planes like the 262 always get a bad rep, since so many flyers are geared to having stuff that must fly perfectly right out of the box. 262s seem to need a bit of tweaking.


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Old 12-23-2012, 07:14 AM   #16
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If anybody knows how to build a plane that will survive hard landings it's you Michael
With the conditions you put up with it's inevitable, how does it go??
" Necessity is the mother of invention"
You are so right that weight is your enemy and lightness survives hard landings. In my I/C powered flying balsa brick days I used to try to build in crash resistance but in the end it just produced a plane which was more likely to fall from the sky if the motor died with the usual disastrous results.
The launching handle sounds a really good idea as many of my hand launched models need to be held behind the trailing edge to launch them and the nose always wants to drop down then.
I tried putting two recesses into the bottom of the wing either side of the fuselage right on the balance point. With your finger tips in the recesses you could hold the model at balance then and have good control of the launch.
Or else you could just put a bomb on the bottom
That sounds like more fun.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:48 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by baz49exe View Post
If anybody knows how to build a plane that will survive hard landings it's you Michael
Somehow I knew the guy who suggested the use of packing tape to Michael was new here. Michael and packing tape are about as tight as a few good layers of packing tape.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:14 AM   #18
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Anybody would think I crashed every time I flew.......
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:24 AM   #19
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......then there was the time I took out the T.V aerial, and a section of guttering after ploughing through my sons combat plane, dogfighting above the house My Luft 46 Daimler EDF landed in 3 pieces, but 10 minutes with hot glue and more packing tape saw it back in the air, only to get rammed by my other son's Komet. It only stopped flying when I needed parts for another Luft experimental. The fuselage was used as a base for my Dornier Do 219 bomber, which has been crashed countless times as well. Long live EPP and packing tape
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:18 AM   #20
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Default a little down the track.....

Some months later, this one is still in one piece. I didn't do too much more in the way of mods, except for a couple of strips of Gorilla tape underneath the nacelles. The main effort was put into learning to use the airbrush, with some initial mixed results. Sanding the tape, wiping with metho, and then spraying subsequent coats of very thinned acrylic eventually paid off with a passable finish, although it is far from perfect. No doubt I'll improve with practice ( well, lets hope so), but for now I'm pleased with this first attempt. The scheme was lifted from one of the JG 7 squadrons fighters from January 1945, with the yellow nacelles and red nose for orientation/visibility. I've flown her numerous times just recently, after a bit of a break due to the surrounding paddocks being too rough to land on. The latest crops are nice and soft to land on, and winter has started very calm, although quite cold. ideal weather for this type of plane. I have flown my other foamie EDF's as well quite frequently in the last few days, so I'll make the most of the unusual conditions. The GWS Me 262 has been outstanding value for money, and I hope to have her as my fair weather jet for some time to come... cheers


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Old 09-01-2013, 03:01 AM   #21
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Default rat-catching

Just when I thought I would not post again in this thread, I have to tell someone about yesterday If anyone has read any of my other threads, they would know of the hazards that the masked plovers pose during late winter/early spring. Over the last 5 years I have been rammed, side swiped, forced down, and generally set upon by these aggressive birds, but yesterday took the prize. The weather finally settled for one whole afternoon, so I put up the 262 after a long wet windy few months of not being able to. Only a few days back, the plovers hit my He 162 on its' second test flight after an extensive rebuild, knocking off a tail fin. I upgraded the power system on it to enable me to out run them, and it looked as though the ploy worked.

The GWS Me 262 is a much faster plane, with the EDF units as powerful as I can shoe horn into the nacelles. As stated before, she flies very well, and is probably my favourite EDF plane, plus the very pleasing airbrushed paint scheme, that was my first attempt With 6 of these nutty birds on my tail just after hand launching, I quickly out distanced them, although they continued to fly around waiting for a chance of interception. I had stupidly forgot to check the battery charge, as I seemed to remember it being pretty well charged up anyway......until the power started to suddenly drop No choice but to bring her in, so I cut power from about 150 yards out and commenced a graceful glide in. About 40 yards out, and about 15 feet off the ground, this plover came from nowhere, hitting the 262 in the tail, as another rammed the starboard wing. She simply spun like a top directly into the ground, while they dived on her again to make sure of the kill. The wreckage was not as bad as I thought, as the knee high thick oats cushioned the impact, plus a flat spin beats a nose in any day. Broken tail, nacelle ripped off, starboard wing cracked right through, numerous claw rips etc.

I stayed up late last night and repaired all the damage, as the whole plane is taped together, and no glue joints to tear sections out with. My painstaking applied air brushed finish looks as though it has been got at by someone with a machete, but at least she is back in one piece, ready to fly again. Like the stories I've read of RAF Tempests rat-catching 262s', as they came into land low on fuel and jets throttled back, these plovers are playing the same game. Guess I'll have to wait a bit longer until the nesting season winds down
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