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Old 11-14-2010, 02:24 PM   #76
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ESTIMATING BATTERY RUN TIME

Since this comes up so often with new pilots, it is worth posting here.

CALCULATION METHOD

Note that a 1300 mAH pack = 1.3 AH pack

Capacity in AH / amp draw X 60 = minutes of run time.

m = mili which means 1/1000. Just to ways of expressing the same number.

1.3 AH / 8 amps = .1625 hours

.1625 X 60 = 9.75 minutes at 8 amps.

This assumes you use up all the useful battery capacity, not that you are running the battery to zero voltage. It also assumes that the battery can actually deliver its total rated capacity before the LVC, low voltage cut-off, kicks in to keep you from running it too low.

Normally you don't run at full throttle all the time. For mixed flying that is probably more like 15 minutes. I usually estimate mixed flying time at 150% of the calculation but your actual experience will differ based on how you fly.

When estimating useful flying time out of a pack, be conservative, then watch it over several flights to get your true number. This calculation is for planning purposes.

If you are sizing a power system for a plane, part of that sizing should include the duration of the battery pack vs. weight and size.



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Old 06-10-2011, 07:27 AM   #77
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Thanks for your insight
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:36 AM   #78
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This discussion continues to get a lot of readers but you can as questions too, so don't be shy. Jus keep them on topic..

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Old 01-17-2012, 02:11 PM   #79
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Great advise! Thanks
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:29 PM   #80
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SETTING GOALS



Before you can select a power system you should set a goal for what you want from the power system and the aircraft.


If this is a pylon racer, then you need speed. I don't race pylon, so I don't know how important acceleration is.


If you are flying a slow flyer then weight is very important. You need enough power to keep the plane in the air but you want everything to be light. By minimizing the draw of the power system you can reduce the size of the ESC and the battery which reduces weight.


If you are flying an e-glider then you probably want to focus on climb less than speed. The goal is usually to get the glider to an altitude, say 600 feet, in an acceptable amount of time, say 30 seconds, then you power off and the motor/battery become dead weight. So you are setting up for short run climb rather than long runs. So you are sizing to that goal.


Sometimes you have to build around the prop. Ground clearance on the runway may limit your prop size. While a hand launched plane has no prop size restraints.


Space in the aircraft can decide whether you go with an inrunner or an outrunner. That outrunner needs more room so that outer can can spin without touching anything. An inrunner can lay right against the sides of the plane as long as there is enough air flow to cool it. If you have to use an inrunner but need a large prop, then you add a gearbox.


Weight can impact your decisions. If your aircraft was designed when speed 400 or speed 600 motors were the main power plant, then going to a light brushless motor may not save you any weight. Take out a 3 ounce speed 400 and put in a 1.5 oz brushless will mean you have to add lead to balance. OR, you can look at moving the battery forward to help balance without adding weight.


Consider where you will put things in order to obtain the proper balance with the least added weight. The shape of your battery may matter a great deal. For example, you may have decided that you want to use a 3S 2500 mah pack. But they are not all the same shape. Which one will fit? Or maybe you have to change your motor choice because the battery you need to support it is too big for the plane.




The point? Think about your goals for the aircraft and the power system. You and I may have the same aircraft, but we have different ideas of how we want to fly it. We will then come up with different power systems, yet both will be right for what we want to do.

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Old 06-08-2012, 04:59 AM   #81
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Here is an index of some key informational posts in the thread.

Post 1, the 6 keys to success
Post 24 – Learning to Fly in the wind
Post 25 – what to practice
Post 26 – a good tip
Post 33 – The 7th key to success
Post 35 – Thoughts for beginners
Post 36 – Plane Locators
Post 39 – hat and sunglasses and more
Post 42 – using ballast for windy days
Post 50 – Everything you wanted to know about electric flight
Post 53 – Keeping the plane upwind
Post 76 – Estimating Battery run time

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Old 06-11-2012, 02:23 PM   #82
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Recovery tips
Where can I find piloting tips for recovery when I get in trouble flying.. Like recover from an unintended spin or a stall at low altitude, etc. If not recovery to straight and level flight, at least to minimize damage?
Thanks much, fly
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:55 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Flywhat2 View Post
Recovery tips
Where can I find piloting tips for recovery when I get in trouble flying.. Like recover from an unintended spin or a stall at low altitude, etc. If not recovery to straight and level flight, at least to minimize damage?
Thanks much, fly
I'm sure there are many others with good advice as well, but this is what I usually do..........Height is you best friend for a stall, as is a good headwind, but if it is a nose up stall very close to the ground, some times applying a burst of power can pull you out of it to enable some height to be gained and another attempt at landing. A powerfull motor can get you out of trouble if used correctly, but you also need to be carefull of a torque reaction/roll at very low speed as well. A tip stall can be alleviated by down elevator until some speed and lift is restored, but again, you need some height. As for flat spins, I've tried everything, and so far to no avail. My scale warbirds are prone to spin out if I turn too tight, especially downwind, with almost no hope of recovery. All I do is shut down the power and hope they land nice and flat like a frisbee....hope that helps
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:04 AM   #84
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How to select your first radio.
http://www.Wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68741

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Old 12-21-2012, 04:29 AM   #85
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This was very helpful for me as a newbie
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:31 PM   #86
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Cool,
The best advice I read from AEAJR was keeping your plane up-wind. I was ready to give up this great hobby until I read that part and have been hooked ever since. Ed is a wise man and I still keep the manual with me :-)

Happy flying may your crashes be limited and if they are not limited let them be cool.
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:12 PM   #87
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Yes, staying up wind is a skill that must be developed.

I am one of the flight examiners at our field. Until you pass your senior pilot test you must have a senior pilot flying with you. This is to help you learn, to reduce your crashing and to protect the safety of others.

I won't pass a pilot who can not keep the plane up-wind as it demonstrates that they do not have command and control of the plane.

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Old 12-28-2012, 06:27 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
Yes, staying up wind is a skill that must be developed.

I am one of the flight examiners at our field. Until you pass your senior pilot test you must have a senior pilot flying with you. This is to help you learn, to reduce your crashing and to protect the safety of others.

I won't pass a pilot who can not keep the plane up-wind as it demonstrates that they do not have command and control of the plane.
I remember one field with strict requirements like this. Even though I had been flying for 25 years that didn't matter. I was a better pilot than the "sign off" members too. The issue was nobody was ever around to "pass" me off.

What I giant PIA. I was annoyed to say the least. I finally managed to "pass" the test - including with some of the test inverted - thankfully the examiner had a good sense of humor and singed me off immediately. But it left such a nasty taste in my mouth - and the club had a very elitist attitude and shunned newbie's so I knew it was not for me.

How do your "Senior" pilots reduce crashing? Do they have to stand next to you or do you put everyone on buddy boxes?

What do you do for guests?

That said - our field has a couple of guys that when they go up - we ALL land. Just not worth it. One refuses to fly any pattern the other can't! It is funny I asked him if he could actually fly a right hand pattern. He could not. I am like what do you do when the wind is blowing that way. Well he he does left hand turns at the end of the runway! YIKES!

So I get the reason but I have seen that create a real class level in the club.

I do get the safety element though, we had one event our toy drive in early December and I had a rooking pilot crash behind me (about 6 feet) in the back of the pilots box. Normally when we have an issue - folks start hollering but not this time - the first thing I hear was the crash. I was FREAKED out and thankfully I didn't crash my brand new airplane. I wanted to encourage him - and could tell he was new at it all. Just told him next time - just YELL out!

Mike
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:24 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
I remember one field with strict requirements like this. Even though I had been flying for 25 years that didn't matter. I was a better pilot than the "sign off" members too. The issue was nobody was ever around to "pass" me off.

What I giant PIA. I was annoyed to say the least. I finally managed to "pass" the test - including with some of the test inverted - thankfully the examiner had a good sense of humor and singed me off immediately. But it left such a nasty taste in my mouth - and the club had a very elitist attitude and shunned newbie's so I knew it was not for me.

How do your "Senior" pilots reduce crashing? Do they have to stand next to you or do you put everyone on buddy boxes?

What do you do for guests?

That said - our field has a couple of guys that when they go up - we ALL land. Just not worth it. One refuses to fly any pattern the other can't! It is funny I asked him if he could actually fly a right hand pattern. He could not. I am like what do you do when the wind is blowing that way. Well he he does left hand turns at the end of the runway! YIKES!

So I get the reason but I have seen that create a real class level in the club.

I do get the safety element though, we had one event our toy drive in early December and I had a rooking pilot crash behind me (about 6 feet) in the back of the pilots box. Normally when we have an issue - folks start hollering but not this time - the first thing I hear was the crash. I was FREAKED out and thankfully I didn't crash my brand new airplane. I wanted to encourage him - and could tell he was new at it all. Just told him next time - just YELL out!

Mike
Sorry you had some bad feelings about how your club conducted itself. As far as I know it has not been a huge problem for us, except for one guy who kept telling us about how great a pilot he was but could not seem to perform the simple tasks we ask him to do for the senior test. He failed a couple of times. He finally passed, but he had a much higher opinion of himself as a pilot than any of us. I have run into this before but never to this degree.

Remember this is a glider club. The senior test is a piece of cake.

Guests are hosted and are the responsibility of their host.

How can a senior pilot help a novice? I would think this would be obvious, but let's review. First of all he can help the Novice understand the field rules, where we can fly and where we can not fly. How the flight line is conducted and how to understand the field layout.

A senior pilot can help a novice when he gets in trouble or can take over. He can teach technique or make suggestions on how the Novice can improve his flying. And he can help he novice prepare for the flight test.

Buddy boxes are optional. I don't usually use one. But every once in a while I get a student where I insist on one. Some of these guys take a while to "get it", but most eventually do.

Instruction is not required. If you can walk onto the field and pass the test you get your Senior status and can fly on your own. We have 6 flight examiners and they are among the most active members of the club. All you do is request a test and we set up an appointment. If someone approaches me when I am at the field I am more than happy to oblige. Only takes about 15 minutes.

If demonstrating basic flight control is too much to ask then it would be best for all parties concerned if they were to find somewhere else to fly. It has nothing to do with their skills and everything to do with their attitude.

When I have visited other fields I ALWAYS contact the club before I come, to understand their rules and procedures. I have offered to demonstrate my skills to the field controller or whoever is at the field. Typically this has not been an issue. Sometimes they accept my offer and sometimes they wave it. Either way I am a guest at their field and I behave like a guest. Seems only right to me. If I cause a serious problem I could cost them their field.

If I were to join another club I would fully expect to be asked to demonstrate my skills, just as a matter of safety. Why not? I have nothing to fear.

In case you are interested, here is our flight exam check sheet. If you can't pass this you must be a pretty poor pilot and should be supervised for your own safety and the safety of others. This sheet is given to every new member when they join the club so they know exactly what is expected. If you are an experienced pilot you can just ask to be tested and you are all set.


LISF Senior Pilot Examination Report


Flight Examiner ________________________________________ Date ___________


Tested Pilot _______________________________________ AMA #

Oral Test – Based on the new member packet Pass ____ Fail _____
1) Describe the type of flying that is permitted at the LISF Field
2) Describe the field layout and safety guidelines
3) Describe where pilots should and should not be flying
4) Who may fly at the LISF/Stillwell field
5) Describe the flight plan for the flight test.

Airplane Check – Preflight ------------------------------ Pass ____ Fail _____

Pure gliders may take multiple launches to complete test. All others should be completed within one launch.)

Electric ___ Glider ____ Meets LISF Guidelines ______

Frequency control properly completed ______

Does airplane appear air worthy? _____ Battery charged and well secured _____

Control Surfaces operating properly _____ Successful Range Check _____


Flight Examination ------------------------------------------- Pass ____ Fail ____

Safe, controlled launch _____ safe, controlled climb to 50 feet minimum ______

Left circular flight with good altitude control _______ right circle ________

Safe, controlled flat figure 8 in center of the field ________

Safe controlled flight toward pilot exiting left _____ exiting right _______

Safe, controlled glide – power off for 30 seconds minimum _______

Safe, controlled set-up for landing ______

Safe, successful power off landing within a designated landing area ____________

Plane flight worthy after landing ________

Flight Examiner’s Signature

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Old 12-28-2012, 11:52 PM   #90
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I really like a great deal of that test stuff - shows they know the in's and out's of the field and that certainly is wise.

Not heavy on flight skills (that is where most go WAY overboard). You are right if you can't do that - you really are still "learning" to fly.

I like that you check BOTH directions - something we have pilots that can't do.

Really like the field particulars - we have a noise issue at ours and that is a constantly violated rule (we are in a city park surrounded by million dollar homes). Under my breath (and I am not alone) we are hoping to have enough issues that we become "E" power only.

I like it Ed - thanks for sharing. Sounds like your focus is on safe models and field rules - smart. I am so lucky to be in a club that has helpers and since we are in a city park - we get a LOT of people walking up. There are about a dozen of us you hope are there - so we can make that first experience a good one.

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Old 12-29-2012, 08:05 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post

In case you are interested, here is our flight exam check sheet. If you can't pass this you must be a pretty poor pilot and should be supervised for your own safety and the safety of others. This sheet is given to every new member when they join the club so they know exactly what is expected. If you are an experienced pilot you can just ask to be tested and you are all set.


LISF Senior Pilot Examination Report


Flight Examiner ________________________________________ Date ___________


Tested Pilot _______________________________________ AMA #

Oral Test – Based on the new member packet Pass ____ Fail _____
1) Describe the type of flying that is permitted at the LISF Field
2) Describe the field layout and safety guidelines
3) Describe where pilots should and should not be flying
4) Who may fly at the LISF/Stillwell field
5) Describe the flight plan for the flight test.

Airplane Check – Preflight ------------------------------ Pass ____ Fail _____

Pure gliders may take multiple launches to complete test. All others should be completed within one launch.)

Electric ___ Glider ____ Meets LISF Guidelines ______

Frequency control properly completed ______

Does airplane appear air worthy? _____ Battery charged and well secured _____

Control Surfaces operating properly _____ Successful Range Check _____


Flight Examination ------------------------------------------- Pass ____ Fail ____

Safe, controlled launch _____ safe, controlled climb to 50 feet minimum ______

Left circular flight with good altitude control _______ right circle ________

Safe, controlled flat figure 8 in center of the field ________

Safe controlled flight toward pilot exiting left _____ exiting right _______

Safe, controlled glide – power off for 30 seconds minimum _______

Safe, controlled set-up for landing ______

Safe, successful power off landing within a designated landing area ____________

Plane flight worthy after landing ________

Flight Examiner’s Signature
I am really glad you posted this. I have not joined a club here in Wyoming but when I enquired about one. I was asked if I could pass a test being new to the hobby I was unsure of what kind of test he was referring to so I replied "I dont know would this be something I had to study for" I smile at this because after learning to fly "farily well" I can see why he may have thought I was being sarcastic, however he got a bit cross with me and said "if I had to ask then I had no business joining." Ever since that conversation I have often wondered what kinda test would I need to perform or pass to join or be a good memeber of a club. This gives me an idea as to what a club is looking for in a pilots skills.

A controlled figure 8 in center of field kinda has me thinking and maybe I am overthinking it but is that at say 3 mistakes high?

Happy flying may your crashes be limited and if they are not limited let them be cool.
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:03 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
I am really glad you posted this. I have not joined a club here in Wyoming but when I enquired about one. I was asked if I could pass a test being new to the hobby I was unsure of what kind of test he was referring to so I replied "I dont know would this be something I had to study for" I smile at this because after learning to fly "farily well" I can see why he may have thought I was being sarcastic, however he got a bit cross with me and said "if I had to ask then I had no business joining." Ever since that conversation I have often wondered what kinda test would I need to perform or pass to join or be a good memeber of a club. This gives me an idea as to what a club is looking for in a pilots skills.

A controlled figure 8 in center of field kinda has me thinking and maybe I am overthinking it but is that at say 3 mistakes high?
That is the kind of club I was talking about! Proud and VERY unfriendly to newcomers. They want to exclude rather than grow the hobby - sad.

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Old 12-29-2012, 02:06 PM   #93
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Fish,

We had to perform a high speed low pass then snap roll to inverted at 5 feet AGL to an outside loop to vertical , go straight-up through a 400 foot cloud layer allowing the plane to disappear then perform a tumble until it became visible again. - Just kidding !

There should be some sort of basic competentcy test to measure what type of training is needed and if helmuts are required. But not to exclude from membership.
Our club offers and encourages free training and we also have a safety officer. The guys know who are newbies and watch with a careful eye.

Happy New Year !

-Hawk

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Old 12-29-2012, 03:49 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
I am really glad you posted this. I have not joined a club here in Wyoming but when I enquired about one. I was asked if I could pass a test being new to the hobby I was unsure of what kind of test he was referring to so I replied "I dont know would this be something I had to study for" I smile at this because after learning to fly "farily well" I can see why he may have thought I was being sarcastic, however he got a bit cross with me and said "if I had to ask then I had no business joining." Ever since that conversation I have often wondered what kinda test would I need to perform or pass to join or be a good memeber of a club. This gives me an idea as to what a club is looking for in a pilots skills.

A controlled figure 8 in center of field kinda has me thinking and maybe I am overthinking it but is that at say 3 mistakes high?
We have no specific height requirement. But the pilot should be able to do a figure 8 while maintaining smooth control as well as altitude. If the plane is all over the place he is not going to pass.




Originally Posted by rcers View Post
That is the kind of club I was talking about! Proud and VERY unfriendly to newcomers. They want to exclude rather than grow the hobby - sad.

Mike

That is not an example of a club's attitude, it is an example of an individual attitude. I am saddened to hear you would judge an entire club by the behavior of one person.

And yes, to pass our test you do have to study, some, in order to answer the verbal questions. You see, by rule of the land owner, we are allowed to fly sailplanes/gldiers, electric gliders and small electric planes in a glider like fashion.

Until we required that verbal section we had people join the club and showing up with planes that would have gotten us thrown off the field. We gave them the new member packet but they did not read it. So we added the verbal part to be sure that the person understood the restrictions placed upon us.

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Old 12-29-2012, 04:11 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
That is not an example of a club's attitude, it is an example of an individual attitude. I am saddened to hear you would judge an entire club by the behavior of one person.
Not in my experience. It is a disease in a club. One infected member can spread the disease to others and ruin the entire club. I have seen it happen!

Certainly one individual can be the ONLY example but I have not found that to be the case in the clubs I have visited. Many have a heir of exclusivity.

Don't pretend you have not seen that - I am confident in your many years you know exactly what I am talking about. I have seen it over and over again.

Thankfully my local club is a good one. Since we are in a city park we rarely don't have visitors wonder over to the pits asking about the hobby. The bulk of us invite them in - talk to them and let them see and feel the models. I actually grab them from the visitor parking lot and invite them over to talk about the hobby. Some of them just might be our future after all.

Sure - I hear you don't judge by one person. But I can tell by a few visits exactly what type of club they are. Mine rocks, but some are "exclusive" and full of the disease.

Mike
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:32 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
We have no specific height requirement. But the pilot should be able to do a figure 8 while maintaining smooth control as well as altitude. If the plane is all over the place he is not going to pass.

And yes, to pass our test you do have to study, some, in order to answer the verbal questions. You see, by rule of the land owner, we are allowed to fly sailplanes/gldiers, electric gliders and small electric planes in a glider like fashion.

Until we required that verbal section we had people join the club and showing up with planes that would have gotten us thrown off the field. We gave them the new member packet but they did not read it. So we added the verbal part to be sure that the person understood the restrictions placed upon us.
Good Stuff. I may just look into it again sometime.

Originally Posted by rcers View Post
Not in my experience. It is a disease in a club...
Ooops had no intentions of kicking of a club debate here

Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Fish,

We had to perform a high speed low pass then snap roll to inverted at 5 feet AGL to an outside loop to vertical , go straight-up through a 400 foot cloud layer allowing the plane to disappear then perform a tumble until it became visible again. - Just kidding !


Happy New Year !

-Hawk
Now that would be impressive. I can just now see Darth Vader saying "Impressive...ObI One has taught you well"

Happy flying may your crashes be limited and if they are not limited let them be cool.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:44 PM   #97
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OK, enough about clubs. Back to the 6 keys to success.

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Old 08-11-2013, 11:56 PM   #98
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Great advice on the flight simulator, you just saved me a ton of money and embarrassment ! If anyone is old school and returning to the hobby beg, borrow or
steal a flight sim..........Thanks !
Also realized I was a "jabber" at the sticks- sim is great for becoming 2-finger
each stick pilot.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:17 AM   #99
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Now on another note- I quit a long time ago because of the only "friendly" club in
the area. Sure, 1 or 2 went out of there way to encourage- I tried to stay out
of way knowing I was a newbie. When I asked if the club was accepting new members
and the requirements I wasd told the meeting was first Thursday of every month at...
So, I show up, NOBODY talks to me, except the couple that took pity-saw it in there eyes.
2 hours later- end of meeting- new business- shall we accept new members- NO
I tell ya' I coulda cried.....now its years later, Ill do with a club or without, like to
find a good one, anyway/either way Ill display my AMA #'s proudly- sorry to get so long winded.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:26 PM   #100
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Here is a resource that will help new pilots.

Things to check on an RTF
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26372

Many new pilots start on Ready to Fly packages and still have problems. Why? Well sometimes that RTF is not quite ready to fly. Read the article.

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