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Old 01-01-2013, 05:01 PM   #51
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Call me simple, cos I know I am anyway, but the Wellington wing has been no problem to transport at 64" span so I thought I'd just go for simplicity, there's that word again, and go for a one piece wing.
I measured my car to see if it would fit and 7ft is the maximum it will take.
I think it means I can make the wing as light as possible if I keep it one piece and simple.


Barry
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:40 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Hi Bill ....

Happy New Year ...

One of the reasons I want to split the servos across the battery supplies - I'm trying to avoid high drain on one pack. Plus having 4 motors - I think it wise to split the power drain there.

Motor to ESC leads are no problem - heavy duty copper cable is abundant here at my house with the rebuild !

One question that runs through my mind - is where to mount the ESC's etc. I know that many use nacelles, but I want to keep transverse weight as central as possible. I know from previous that putting weight out in the wing lessens aileron effect and a model like this is already sluggish there. Plus I would keep batttery to ESC leads normal length.
Its another reason I considered the outer wing panels as detachable.

Has anyone a simple DIY plug-in wing system I can make ?

As to the tiling ... its a problem of Adobe Reader XI .... the online site I use is fine, but the online doesn't scale down / up as I needed. The original plan is 74" .... too much for my use. Even 52" is at my limits but smaller than that and a Lancaster would be daft in the air ! IMHO It's also still big enough to have 'presence' ....

Nigel
Most ESCs only spec around 8" lead length, and when added to the battery's lead itself, it's easy to exceed. Heavy gauge wire obviously reduces the problem, but copper weighs. A lot of weight can be removed by using 26ga servo harnessing versus 22, while running the numbers to ensure ample current carrying capacity. I despise harness weight with a passion. The idea of mounting individual batteries in each inner nacelle would be to minimize battery harness length, while mounting the ESCs in the nacelles where good cooling is possible while keeping scale appearance. Two batteries total, one per each inner nacelle. The servo draw, as well as the motor draw, shouldn't be much of a concern. At 3lbs, 250-300 class outrunners and 5-9gm servos are adequate. I'd consider something in the range of 1000-1500mAh per side and 12A ESCs, preferring light weight over flight times. Interestingly the flight times are still good with reasonably light AUWs. The Dynam ESCs with internal switching BECs have become a favorite for quite some time now, as they not only have proven themselves, but remove the need for an external UBEC. I mentioned 12A as the Dynam 12 has a 3A switching BEC.

I used to radically overbuild, initially labeled as the build to crash guy, and spent a number of years learning how to maintain robustness, sheeted scale looks, while minimizing weight. If I mastered anything, I'd like to think that it is that. My 53" Comet EDF is 3.9lbs AUW, which is heavier than I would plan for a Lancaster at the same size, since the EDF requires a cow of a battery. The Curtiss America biplane seaplane build is a good example of how a 53" sheeted fuse plane with twins can weigh a mere 2lbs AUW. Work out the specs, and a 3.5lb or lighter Lancaster at 53" should be easily possible. One of the lessons I learned well in building is the snowball effect. Either everything is intentionally kept to the minimum required, or one excessively heavy feature or item will dictate that all aspects of the entire project will become heavier. I personally think there's a major misconception that the online rc community gives, in terms of the gear required for a model that is just a hair larger than park size. It's good to be a rebelling individualist, when it comes to design and building.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:08 PM   #53
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I have all the motors, props, adaptors, esc's, wheels etc. already ...

I also plan to use 1300 up to 2200 3S packs ... carried on the CoG so size will not alter the CoG.

The copper wire I use is actually not that heavy .. I use it in my 70mm EDF ... my Pusher F15 ... anywhere that long motor leads are needed. I prefer the small weight penalty for the advantage of siting the ESC's where best.

At present my mind is on siting the ESC's together at centre of wing ... so can be plugged to LiPo's and Rx's easily. Putting them out at nacelles incl. LiPo - means a stronger structure .... Keeping central means I can have a lighter wing compensating for copper etc.

But all debate is good ... it all goes in the pot and hopefully a working machine will emerge !!

Nigel

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Old 01-01-2013, 08:14 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by pmullen503 View Post
I would split the wing outside the nacelles and make the center section in one piece. It simplifies wiring and may allow transport with the wing center section still attached to the fuselage. Adding the wing tips and connecting just the aileron servos at the field.

The forces at those joints will be much less than at the center joint. You could use carbon tubes in a sleeve or a blade spar that slides into a box. It depends on how much dihedral vs wing thickness you have. There are several ways to retain the wings.
I thought more for splitting at the outer nacelles as well ... I suppose the nacelles with a hatch would allow me to have blind nut and bolt with spars ? or a tension rubber band as in gliders ?

Of course at 52" - do I really need to split the wing ? My Skymaster bipe has two wings of similar size in single form ...
As long as I can transport dismantled ... I'm fine. That means simple wing fixing and simple gear hook-ups.

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Old 01-01-2013, 09:48 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
I thought more for splitting at the outer nacelles as well ... I suppose the nacelles with a hatch would allow me to have blind nut and bolt with spars ? or a tension rubber band as in gliders ?

Of course at 52" - do I really need to split the wing ? My Skymaster bipe has two wings of similar size in single form ...
As long as I can transport dismantled ... I'm fine. That means simple wing fixing and simple gear hook-ups.

Nigel
If its only 52" a one piece wing will be simpler and probably lighter than a multi piece wing. If you go with multiple receivers, one in the fuse and a second in the wing, you can wire it so you only need to connect a power source to power the second receiver to separate the wing from the fuselage.


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Old 01-01-2013, 10:36 PM   #56
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Its my B/day tmrw ... so I shall be in no fit state to cont with this ... but next day ... I will start on layout ... and cutting out parts.

Cheers
Nigel

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Old 01-01-2013, 10:46 PM   #57
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Happy Birthday!

All of my landings are three point landings if you count the spinner, too
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:27 AM   #58
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Cheers ... HIC !

Actually I have loads to do today so drink is probably not on the agenda ... such is life !!

Nigel

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Old 01-02-2013, 11:19 AM   #59
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Default Build Starts !

In fact - decided to start !!

Here's the plan out and cutting started.

wing halves and tail parts basic ...



Fuselage and nacelles basic ...



I'm using my favourite green floor sheets, 5.5mm and keeping my depron for sheeting and covering the grooved side of my green sheet. The Depron is more flexible than the floor sheets and lends itself to the curves.

One of the first areas of concern is the wing is set into the fuselage so far that in that area the fuselage will be weak. Normally we would insert wing from UNDER ... but if you look at the fuselage side where marked - it would be better to insert wing from TOP leaving a greater side area ... plus I can fit wood doubler along the flat bottom wing seat running frrom nose to tail ... this model I think needs something like this as it's a big wing and stresses will be huge on that fuselage. I'm also considering doubling the fuselage sides with another 5.5mm sheet but lightened ..

All formers will be doubled to avoid any cracks / breaks as I've found in some builds previous. Its the only drawback with the floor sheeting - it has deep grooves along it and this leads to breaks along it.

Now having a break ... till later !

Cheers
Nigel

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Old 01-02-2013, 03:06 PM   #60
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WOW .... Latvia finally joins the world !!

One of my Latvian flying pals reckoned a new shop has all the screws etc. we need in the small sizes ... what a gem !

M2 ... M3 .... etc. in short up to long ... self tappers for servos etc. etc.

Not only that but I got alloy thick wall tube 6mm ID with 6mm alloy rod to make wing alloy joiner spars ! They have from 6 up to 20mm ....

This changes my Lanc possibilities ..... so how to do the wings now ?

Nigel

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Old 01-02-2013, 05:50 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Its my B/day tmrw ... so I shall be in no fit state to cont with this ... but next day ... I will start on layout ... and cutting out parts.

Cheers
Nigel
Happy Birthday Nigel ! Go buy yourself the V2 Lanc from HK and enjoy !

Hawk
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:37 PM   #62
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My son was born 01-02-03 so his is today. Happy b-day for yours tomorow Nigel. joe
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:08 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Happy Birthday Nigel ! Go but yourself the V2 Lanc from HK and enjoy !

Hawk
I was .... but @#$%^&* Latvian Post restrictions wouldn't allow the parcel. And I was not going to pay Courier costs !

Just got back from Restaurant .... as always I have to drive as well ... so still sober ! I have some nice Pilsner in the fridge that may just make an appearance next few minutes !!

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Old 01-02-2013, 07:11 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by road king 97 View Post
My son was born 01-02-03 so his is today. Happy b-day for yours tomorow Nigel. joe
Tmrw ?? Today !!

is that 2nd January 03 ? You know you guys in USA put your dates around other way to many in the world ... and is why in my job where I work a lot with different nationalities I always spell the month when writing it out ..

My Bday is today ... 2nd Jan ( born 1956) ...... there you go - you know I'm an old fart now !!

Nigel

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Old 01-02-2013, 07:26 PM   #65
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So lets go over this ....

I have 10mm square MDF 2.4m long ... surprisingly strong and light.

6mm solid alloy rod 1m long

9.3mm OD, 6mm ID alloy tube 1m long

Question is the wing ... plug into fuselage sides ? One piece slot in from top ? Centre piece permanent and dihredral outer panels plugged in ?

The tube and rod have generated this revision ... and I need help !!

Nigel

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Old 01-02-2013, 08:22 PM   #66
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I'd keep the wing in one piece, at least the center section past the inner nacelles. Landing (hard landings) will probably account for the biggest load on the wing and it will be easier to build a sturdy one piece center section. When you split the wing all the forces that can normally be spread by the skin get interrupted and have to be borne by the joiner.

Keeping all the nacelles on the center section will reduce the number of connections that will need to be made when attaching the wing tips.

It's certainly possible to split the wing in the middle. In that case, I'd build it so the wing would mount as a unit rather than plug in to fuselage. That way you have the option of transporting the assembled wing in one piece. Most of the wiring connections could stay connected.

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Old 01-02-2013, 09:45 PM   #67
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Yes - I forgot the UC load is carried by the inner nacelle area.

Back to single piece wing ! with longitudinal spar in fuselage which can take the wing bolts.

I reckon use of the alloy tube may still be a good idea to strengthen that centre section that carries all 4 motors and also landing loads.

I haven't tried bending the rod yet ... maybe that can provide the 'dihedral bracing' ... plugging into the tube in centre section ... a permanent fixing. I'm not too worried about weight of the alloy as this model has large wing area for it's size.... and a flat bottom Clark Y high lift format.

Tmrw - will be cutting more foam and start to mark formers / spars etc.

The fuselage sides - I have cut along the main straight edge from rear bulkhead of front turret to front bulkhead of rear tail turret. This will give me a good straight alignment edge to set up fuselage in jig ... plus good joint for fitting curved block top-decking. Block top decking will add significant stiffening to the fuselage and allow shaping.
I will modify formers to be straight vertical sides instead of the sloped inwards of the plan versions. This makes building more simple, will not destroy the classic look ... Bottom will be flat plate sheeting ... again to simplify build.(I never sid it would be scale !! My wish is to represent one of the Lancs my Mother worked on 619 Sqdn, Skellingthorpe.

....



Problem I have which I hope someone can help ... I have no full picture or registration details of a Lanc she worked ... The above is best I have ... If anyone can help with cosmetic details of a Strubby Lanc of 619 sqdn ... I would be extremely grateful.

Cheers
Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:55 PM   #68
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I'm an idiot !! I assumed dihedral break is at OUTER nacelle ... it's not, its at INNER nacelle. Therefore I will be making a single stronger wing ... to carry weight of those outer motors etc.

Nigel

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Old 01-05-2013, 05:49 PM   #69
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Started on Fuselage today ....



then test fit wing ... see overall size ...



It's actually not so big as I imagined ... but still no midget !

I now have a block of white lighter foam to hot cut to make top decks and infill over top of wing.

The formers from plan were straightened to give slab side ... to build with the curves and shapes of the plan would mean planking ... which with foam is not so successful as with balsa.

Wing seat is doubled 6mm each side - so that is now stiff and strong.

Nigel

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Old 01-06-2013, 12:09 AM   #70
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Default looking good

Good to see this one taking shape You've obviously made up for lost time....and I'm sure lots of people will be following with interest. Keep up the good work
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:21 AM   #71
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Tell me why you've punched a hole in the middle of all your paint can lids. Cuz ... I'm puzzled and curious.

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Old 01-06-2013, 07:04 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
Tell me why you've punched a hole in the middle of all your paint can lids. Cuz ... I'm puzzled and curious.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed but thought I was missing something...

Just call me X! (or Gary works, too.)
Another signature landing! Somebody help me find all the pieces...

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Old 01-06-2013, 07:18 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
Tell me why you've punched a hole in the middle of all your paint can lids. Cuz ... I'm puzzled and curious.


Actually they are not holes ... they are colour dots indicating the paint colour..... applied at factory.

Clever eh ?

I'll be slow from now as today is last day before I fly out to Singapore ...

Nigel

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Old 01-08-2013, 01:02 PM   #74
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An easy way to achieve this is to take a high end card stock model and engineer it into an r/c model. These include spars,
etc with a great deal of authenticity. This is of course validated using documentation.

We have several subjects (including the Lanc) we are going to build at 100" w/s. We have a few edf items first. Vulcan, SST
Concorde, B2, and Horton.

The card stock models are high detailed component count models...1600 parts and above. These are also printed in high
resolution so you can scan or in most cases download as a .pdf such that you have absolutely no problem enlarging with
fabulous line weight and graphics retained.

Just a thought, dons't intend to hijack your thread.

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Old 01-11-2013, 05:03 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Flite-Metal View Post
An easy way to achieve this is to take a high end card stock model and engineer it into an r/c model. These include spars,
etc with a great deal of authenticity. This is of course validated using documentation.

We have several subjects (including the Lanc) we are going to build at 100" w/s. We have a few edf items first. Vulcan, SST
Concorde, B2, and Horton.

The card stock models are high detailed component count models...1600 parts and above. These are also printed in high
resolution so you can scan or in most cases download as a .pdf such that you have absolutely no problem enlarging with
fabulous line weight and graphics retained.

Just a thought, dons't intend to hijack your thread.
Don't want to hijack the thread either, but while Nigel is is Singapore, I'm REALLY curious about the EDF Horten. There are a number of them....Which one?
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