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Old 12-06-2012, 02:53 AM   #176
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Torque rods, huh? That sounds like a great name for them. They don't have a lot of travel and that's probably why they are so hard to move.

I was really more or less asking about my elevator servo and wondered why according to the calc I can get away with about 10% of the stock servo's torque. It just seemed quite odd and I wanted to make sure I didn't make a huge obvious blunder when calculating it. Realistically I'll probably get away with about 25% of the stock servos torque. I even doubled the UP elevator throw that I use for landing nicely. I just happened to spot another post where another user also used about double the stock throw for the elevator.

Hopefully it'll be all good since I am doing my first 4s powerplant, new servo, centering all rods, fiing a loose wing and installing a new battery to my e-stik. It's not much , but it's MY most powerful plane. I really enjoy flying it and now I enjoy using the servo calc.
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:42 PM   #177
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Looking to find what servos from HK are compatible to the Hitec HS-65 and HS-85. Is there a datbase for comparison somewhere?
Thanks
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:45 PM   #178
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Might be expressed in grams or g

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Old 01-15-2013, 08:46 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by nidly View Post
Torque rods, huh? That sounds like a great name for them. They don't have a lot of travel and that's probably why they are so hard to move.

I was really more or less asking about my elevator servo and wondered why according to the calc I can get away with about 10% of the stock servo's torque. It just seemed quite odd and I wanted to make sure I didn't make a huge obvious blunder when calculating it. Realistically I'll probably get away with about 25% of the stock servos torque. I even doubled the UP elevator throw that I use for landing nicely. I just happened to spot another post where another user also used about double the stock throw for the elevator.

Hopefully it'll be all good since I am doing my first 4s powerplant, new servo, centering all rods, fiing a loose wing and installing a new battery to my e-stik. It's not much , but it's MY most powerful plane. I really enjoy flying it and now I enjoy using the servo calc.
It's actually true that the required servo torque using real aeronautical calculations is much less than we commonly use. Your 1/10 calc sounds reasonable. Planes obviously fly much better with reduced weight, and so far I've had no issues with using servos as small as the BA2.5 on 36" jets. Maybe a 100mph jet may have flutter issues, but at 50-60mph I've had none. With low required throws, the servo gains even more advantage.

I think more of the reason folks over servo is for the redundancy. I've had at least one pushrod come unstuck during ground check, and a smaller servo may not have been strong enough to break it free. Had that sticking event been in the air without a ground check and not moved, then we all know the results. The larger servos are more reliable also, as small things tend to have issues, but a small servo with ample torque is obviously fine as long as it works. I'll keep using servos as small as possible, as the benefit in weight reduction is quite noticeable. Retracts are about the only place I've found the need for 7-9gm servos in park sized planes. Some instances where a larger servo can be mounted far forward when ballast is required, is also a reason I'll use larger servos.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:35 PM   #180
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Generally we do seem to over estimate servo requirements.
The Boeing B29 at 120,000 lbs and 350mph had no power assisted controls, just the strength of 2 pilots.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:46 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Aristidies View Post
Looking to find what servos from HK are compatible to the Hitec HS-65 and HS-85. Is there a datbase for comparison somewhere?
Thanks
Compatible? I think you mean comparable.

I am not aware of any such table or DB but.

Look a the specs of the HS-65 and HS-85 and look for similar specs at HK. That is what I would do.

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Old 01-16-2013, 04:25 AM   #182
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Google is an amazing thing....just found this......I'm kinda in the middle of a search too, for the perfect 9g mini-MG servo.
(lil bit old on the updates....09')

http://www.fatlion.com/sailplanes/servochart.html

cr

edit: found the motherload.......

http://www.servodatabase.com/servos/all
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:47 PM   #183
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Good Find Crimson Rider. Thanks for posting the links.

I did some sorts and found some pretty tiny servos as well as some monsters intended for industrial rather than RC use.

Interesting!

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Old 02-19-2013, 07:15 PM   #184
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Hello...Newbie pilot here...So i have a question about Servos...I have been doing nothing but googling servos and thought this to be a good place to ask. Here is my question...I am trying to find a suitable substitue for the Futaba S3107 servo. Here is the link on the specs of the 3107 wanted to know if there were any other brands alittle bit cheaper that are compatible with this type/model servo. Any help woul;d be greatly appreciated!!

Anyways, like I said I am new to this hobby and have fallen in love with it...I have found that the electric is by far the cheapest route to go...It just seems you get more bang for your buck so to speak. I am currently flying the Ares Gamma 370 w/brushless 370 motor..all upgrades that are available have been upgraded...plane flies great...So now I am venturing out to something just a tad bit more "sportier"...I recently found on CL brand new Electrify Syncro (EDF powered) comes with two separate wings (glider/trainer type and sport wing). This is an ARF model so I am putting it together and trying to find servos for it. I spent most of my money on the power plant/ESC portion of it, and am dying to get this thing in the air...lol!!! plus I bought a Heli also (MJX F45) also very fun to fly...GEEZ...if you are not careful you can easily spend more money than you think...heli is cool to fly but I want MORE!!!! LOL!!! I have been flying my Gamma for about 2 months now...do all kinds of pretty neat tricks with what power I can squeeze out of those batteries...lol!! but now I want to take this syncro and see what it can do. Any advice, info or help will be greatly appreciated!! Thanks guys!!!
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:16 PM   #185
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Apologize...forgot the link to the Futaba servo specs:

http://www.servodatabase.com/servo/futaba/s3107
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:34 PM   #186
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There are lots of different servos available and many sources. It's just a matter of comparing specs. If we knew where you were it might be easier to point you towards sources.

Here is one with similar specs:

http://www.servocity.com/html/hs-55_sub-micro.html
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:38 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by chamowllie View Post
Hello...Newbie pilot here...So i have a question about Servos...I have been doing nothing but googling servos and thought this to be a good place to ask. Here is my question...I am trying to find a suitable substitue for the Futaba S3107 servo. Here is the link on the specs of the 3107 wanted to know if there were any other brands alittle bit cheaper that are compatible with this type/model servo. Any help woul;d be greatly appreciated!!


Anyways, like I said I am new to this hobby and have fallen in love with it...I have found that the electric is by far the cheapest route to go...It just seems you get more bang for your buck so to speak. I am currently flying the Ares Gamma 370 w/brushless 370 motor..all upgrades that are available have been upgraded...plane flies great...So now I am venturing out to something just a tad bit more "sportier"...I recently found on CL brand new Electrify Syncro (EDF powered) comes with two separate wings (glider/trainer type and sport wing). This is an ARF model so I am putting it together and trying to find servos for it. I spent most of my money on the power plant/ESC portion of it, and am dying to get this thing in the air...lol!!! plus I bought a Heli also (MJX F45) also very fun to fly...GEEZ...if you are not careful you can easily spend more money than you think...heli is cool to fly but I want MORE!!!! LOL!!! I have been flying my Gamma for about 2 months now...do all kinds of pretty neat tricks with what power I can squeeze out of those batteries...lol!! but now I want to take this syncro and see what it can do. Any advice, info or help will be greatly appreciated!! Thanks guys!!!
Originally Posted by chamowllie View Post
Apologize...forgot the link to the Futaba servo specs:

http://www.servodatabase.com/servo/futaba/s3107
My goal is always to help you learn to answer your own questions and help you become knowledgable rather than answer your question and keep you dependent on others.

Did you read the first post? do that first.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64417

Now, why this Futaba servo? Why are you focused on this servo?

You want a suitable sub for this servo. How do we know if it is even right for the use you plan? What would you use the Futaba servo for if you were to use it?

We need more information. Read that first post FIRST, then answer.

If you REALLY want to learn about servos, read the whole thread. There is a WEALTH of info here if you will only take the time to read it. By time you get back to this post you will be telling us what servos you selected and why.

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Old 02-19-2013, 08:26 PM   #188
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Reason for that type servo is bcoz thats what the manual calls for on the Electrify Syncro. Futaba S3107...I did read the first post...as a matter of fact I read this whole thread and spent most of my day clicking on links through this thread...lol!! I am new to this and all of this servo talk is like trying to understand a different culture...but I am certain the longer I am in it the better my understanding of what each measurement and what I can or cant use, the torque and all that information I can come up with my own answer. Here is my ordeal, the specs measurement for the Futaba S3107 "According" to the manual for the Syncro says it is 20x10x20...now when you look up the specs for the actual servo it states 22x11x20...now I know these are in mm...is 2mm really going to throw it off by that much? Also the manual states that the servo weight is 3.0oz...really? actual specs say it is 0.32...Yes I did double check to make sure I wasnt reading it wrong...3.0oz...speed and torque is about acurate 4.8v: .012/60 and Torque: 17.0 oz-in...thats why I am a little bit thrown off for a loop here...measurements and weight are off but speed and torque are exact. Also Turner I am located in Pensacola, FL.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:51 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by chamowllie View Post
Reason for that type servo is bcoz thats what the manual calls for on the Electrify Syncro. Futaba S3107...I did read the first post...as a matter of fact I read this whole thread and spent most of my day clicking on links through this thread...lol!! I am new to this and all of this servo talk is like trying to understand a different culture...but I am certain the longer I am in it the better my understanding of what each measurement and what I can or cant use, the torque and all that information I can come up with my own answer. Here is my ordeal, the specs measurement for the Futaba S3107 "According" to the manual for the Syncro says it is 20x10x20...now when you look up the specs for the actual servo it states 22x11x20...now I know these are in mm...is 2mm really going to throw it off by that much? Also the manual states that the servo weight is 3.0oz...really? actual specs say it is 0.32...Yes I did double check to make sure I wasnt reading it wrong...3.0oz...speed and torque is about acurate 4.8v: .012/60 and Torque: 17.0 oz-in...thats why I am a little bit thrown off for a loop here...measurements and weight are off but speed and torque are exact. Also Turner I am located in Pensacola, FL.
OK, great, now we are getting somewhere.

So, I will restate that my goal is to help you learn rather than just give you the answers so bear with me as I walk through this.

If you want you can go to the torque calculator to see how much you NEED, but I would bet it is under 12 oz-in for this plane. You would need the size of the surfaces, angle of deflection at max throw and the speed, which you probably don't know. But let's guestimate at 60 mph. Run the numbers if you like. If you don't know deflection, use 30 degrees as a good guess.

Looking at the manual - page 6 I see this is a foam wing and that the pocket is cut for the Futaba servo. But foam is easy to trim, so we have quite a bit of latitude in what we do. If the servo is a hair bigger or a hair deeper we can just cut away some foam. If it is a bit smaller we can fill with foam tape or some kind of glue that fills gaps. A couple MM isn't going to hurt anything.

We probably don't want to go more than 50% heavier as that starts to add up on a plane this size.


Here is the Futaba Servo and the specs that we will look at - $18
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXDTB5&P=ML

SPECS:
Speed: .12 sec/60 @ 4.8V
Torque: 17 oz-in (1.2 kg-cm) @ 4.8V
Dimensions: 0.9 x 0.4 x 0.8" (7/8 x 7/16 x 13/16")
(22 x 11 x 20mm)
Weight: 0.32 ounce (5/16oz) (9.0 grams)

So we want a servo that, in my estimation, as 15 oz-in of torque or higher at .5 oz or less in weight. That would be most servos in the 9 gram class.


I have had good success with GWS servos in small electrics. Here is one that would be a good fit.


GWS Naro+F/HP/BB $9
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHHB3&P=7

Length: 22.2mm (.87")
Width: 11mm (.43")
Height: 24.95mm (.98")
Weight: 10g (.35 oz)
Speed: .10 sec/60
Torque: 24 oz-in




I have also had very good luck with Hitec HS-55s for this type of use - $10
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXTX42&P=ML

SPECS: Speed: 0.17 sec at 60
Output Torque: 15.27 oz-in (1.1 kg-cm)
Weight: 0.27oz (7.8g)
Length: 0.89" (22.8mm)
Width: 0.45" (11.6mm)
Height: 0.94" (24mm)


There are dozens out there in the "9 Gram" class but these would be my recommendations based on personal experience. Note that the GWS and Futaba servos are about 25% faster than the Hitec HS-55. Normally I would not worry about that but if this is a very high speed plane, excess of 75 mph, I would pay attention to that. Or if it were a 3D plane, that might be important.

Though the HS-55 is a little slower, I don't think that you will notice.

So now you have some choices or you can go looking for others.

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Old 08-12-2013, 02:54 PM   #190
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Anyone using more than one servo on a surface? How do you set that up? How do you manage and adjust.

I know this is possible but have never had to use more than one per surface.

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Old 08-12-2013, 05:11 PM   #191
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If you have enough channels available you can put each servo on it's own channel. You would then mix the channels of the common servos. This gives the maximum amount of adjustability with being able to adjust sub-trim and travel precisely on each servo. Short of that you can put the servos of one surface on a Y cable.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:09 PM   #192
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Depending on what radio are you using some of this may already be preprogramed and all you have to do is select a wing or tail type.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:41 PM   #193
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OK, so if you have more than enough channels on your radio and enough programming then you can certainly put each servo on a channel by itself.

But what if you don't.

Suppose you want to fly a Giant scale with 10 servos on a DX6i or a Futaba 6J or something like that. Can you do it? Of course you can.

Y cables work - but how to you insure the servos will work together?

other methods?

Guys, I have many of the answers but I don't personally fly planes like this so I am trying to draw practical experience out of people who have done it. If you have a DX18, this is easy. If you have a 6i, it can be done but .... how.

Looking for practical experience input.

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Old 08-12-2013, 07:40 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
OK, so if you have more than enough channels on your radio and enough programming then you can certainly put each servo on a channel by itself.

But what if you don't.

Suppose you want to fly a Giant scale with 10 servos on a DX6i or a Futaba 6J or something like that. Can you do it? Of course you can.

Y cables work - but how to you insure the servos will work together?

other methods?

Guys, I have many of the answers but I don't personally fly planes like this so I am trying to draw practical experience out of people who have done it. If you have a DX18, this is easy. If you have a 6i, it can be done but .... how.

Looking for practical experience input.
If my fading memory is correct, my club members that have done this used programmable digital servos. With programmable servos, each servo can be individually programmed to match the other servo on the same surface.

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Old 08-12-2013, 07:54 PM   #195
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Or use booster tabs like this one on my 1/4 scale Corby Starlet. Only one JR 821 digital servo. More than enough boosted power. I don't know why they're not used more. No extra servo installation Just a simple hinged flap, two control horns and a pushrod.

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Old 08-12-2013, 08:18 PM   #196
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Booster tabs? Interesting!

Tell me more about these booster tabs. I have never seen or heard of these. What do they do? What is their purpose?

Does this somehow multiply the power of the servo or is there something that goes on the servo to boost the power it can deliver?

I expected to hear about match boxes and such but no mention of those so far.

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Old 08-12-2013, 10:34 PM   #197
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One of the main problems with talking about servo to a person without experience is they have nothing to work with in their mind, or in their hands. It is too much like trying to describe an odd looking animal, fish, or craft to someone that has never seen one. On the other hand, if a person has RC gear to play with, they can cut out a flat profile of an airplane, glue on a rudder, connect servo, other RC gear, and after charging the battery pack, play with it. I would recommend using 1/2" thick stiff foam, or laminate two layers of 1/4" foam for the model outline. You don't need to get fancy, you just need something to connect the parts to and test out configurations. There are also a number of Youtube video to watch. Even "Make" (famous crafters/experimenters magazine) has a number of videos dedicated to RC airplane gear. The guy does a great job of explaining the basics about all the parts used in a common electric powered/motored RC airplane. Others video makers do the same thing.

If you want, I will post a few links to view, and I am sure more will appear on the side bar of recommended/related video. You will also see some video that are off in left field and I have no idea why those are in the list. Must be some sort of Youtube promotional thing. There are also other RC sites like RC Groups that offer a wealth of information, ideas, plans, videos, and RC related offerings. Even so, by far the best training tool other than an RC simulator is the profile foamie to connect the RC gear and parts to for testing ideas, configurations, and new options. One of the latest options is called a "bus" and somehow it helps the servo figure out what it is suppose to do, as if which channel they are plugged into doesn't matter. I have no idea how that can be true, but that is how the advert read. The flight "stabilizers" that can all but cancel out the effects of wind are a marvel and are easy to test on a platform as described.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:45 PM   #198
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Tsavah,

Were you responding to a specific question or just making a general comment?

If you have links to information that would be helpful on the subject of servos, I invite you to post them.

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Old 08-13-2013, 02:38 AM   #199
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I'm guessing the booster tab is similar to having a balanced rudder.

I think the extra control hinge area would work kind of like a block pulley, reducing effort to move the surface.

my opinion is go bigger the needed though.
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:06 AM   #200
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Sorry I'm a little late. Been out flying all day. The booster tabs act like power steering. The Corsair has a booster tab on one elev. half while the other has the normal trim tab. Same on one ail and an ail trim on the other.
It takes about 75% of the load off the servo as once you find the magic spot, it's like you put the next sized bigger, faster servo in it. When I first tried it on the Starlet, I didn't know how far to set the tab so I went in one hole at a time, test flying for each setting until the roll rate changed drastically. The tab needs to be 10 % of the area of the control surface to start with. If you go to far with the tab, the servo doesn't have enough power to return the ail. to neutral so you have to be careful to go one step at a time. I also put them on my foamies with oversized surfaces to help the servos out a bit. This Flash 3D didn't have enough servo power to do knifedge loops. Now it's no sweat, as the tab holds it over. Give booster tabs a Google

Gord.


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Gord.
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