84" EPS Lancaster Build

[solentlife]

There's various versions of PU on ebay ... but all seem to carry similar price to GG ...

Baz .. can you give me the name of the glue you use ... with maybe a piccie of the label ? I want to find something locally in Latvia ..

Nigel

[baz49exe]

"If you need to fill a large gap, you can activate it by pre-mixing in a small amount of water. I had a prop come off once and embed itself in the fuselage, punching a sizable hole. I taped over the hole on the outside, premixed the glue and water, then slathered it over the hole from the inside. The glue foamed up and made a perfect patch. I was back in the air in about 45 minutes."[/QUOTE]

That sounds like a great way of rebuilding a damaged fuselage to me with hardly any weight penalty.

[baz49exe]

Originally Posted by pattern14

Another great project, but one puzzling aspect? If you had to cut the building materials to get the foam boards into the car, how do you plan to get the finished product in and out? Trying to visualise it strapped the roof, or you cutting off the top of your car to make it a convertible seems a little too enthusiastic. Then again, all you really need is an angle grinder....

Hey! I've got one of those angle grinder thingies Micheal. Great for cutting balsa!!
The sheet is 8ft by 4ft and it's the 4ft part which is the problem. Just too wide for the back hatch and if I could get it in there'd be no place for me to sit.
By dropping all the passenger seats I can slide the 7ft wing into the car. (If my measurements are correct!)
I was seriously considering building a model transporting box to fit onto the roof bars as an alternative way of carrying a larger model.
I might still do that.

[solentlife]

Transporting ....

I've been contemplating an idea I posted on forums awhile back :

Models can be placed on top of each other using foam sheet spacers shaped to fit wings etc.
I thought about it as I often have no space for all I want to carry and end up putting models as carefully on top of others. But with proper support pieces between them - they'd be safe.

The idea can be adapted to roof-rack boxes ... and being in foam sheet - easily removed when not needed.

Nigel

[baz49exe]

Originally Posted by solentlife

There's various versions of PU on ebay ... but all seem to carry similar price to GG ...

Baz .. can you give me the name of the glue you use ... with maybe a piccie of the label ? I want to find something locally in Latvia ..

Nigel

Here's a pic as requested Nigel.
This Everbuild 5 Minute Lumberjack Wood Adhesive was £13-99 for 760 ml compared to £4-80 odd for 60ml Gorilla. ( Both at local shop prices.)
I haven't looked at on line suppliers, as I needed the glue on that day, but it did show me that there are alternatives to be had.

[Bill G]

Originally Posted by baz49exe

Here's a pic as requested Nigel.
This Everbuild 5 Minute Lumberjack Wood Adhesive was £13-99 for 760 ml compared to £4-80 odd for 60ml Gorilla. ( Both at local shop prices.)
I haven't looked at on line suppliers, as I needed the glue on that day, but it did show me that there are alternatives to be had.

5 minutes sounds good. It's about all the patience I have. Same goes for epoxy. I must have just missed you here Barry, posting in the middle of the night, or UK morning time.

Originally Posted by solentlife

Transporting ....

I've been contemplating an idea I posted on forums awhile back :

Models can be placed on top of each other using foam sheet spacers shaped to fit wings etc.
I thought about it as I often have no space for all I want to carry and end up putting models as carefully on top of others. But with proper support pieces between them - they'd be safe.

The idea can be adapted to roof-rack boxes ... and being in foam sheet - easily removed when not needed.

Nigel

...and then after you come up with that perfect ingenious scheme to fit them all in the car, foam spacers and all, you can then take a pic with your digi-cam so that you can use the same scheme for your return trip home. Your stacking thoughts reminded me of a few amazing model packing jobs in the car.

[solentlife]

Originally Posted by baz49exe

Here's a pic as requested Nigel.
This Everbuild 5 Minute Lumberjack Wood Adhesive was £13-99 for 760 ml compared to £4-80 odd for 60ml Gorilla. ( Both at local shop prices.)
I haven't looked at on line suppliers, as I needed the glue on that day, but it did show me that there are alternatives to be had.

Cheers Baz......

Nigel

[solentlife]

Originally Posted by Bill G

5 minutes sounds good. It's about all the patience I have. Same goes for epoxy. I must have just missed you here Barry, posting in the middle of the night, or UK morning time.

...and then after you come up with that perfect ingenious scheme to fit them all in the car, foam spacers and all, you can then take a pic with your digi-cam so that you can use the same scheme for your return trip home. Your stacking thoughts reminded me of a few amazing model packing jobs in the car.

As long as spacers are marked and not too exact - most models can be accommodated easily ...

When you think that flight boxes with U on top for models are not exact fit ..

Nigel

[baz49exe]

[QUOTE=Bill G;896955]5 minutes sounds good. It's about all the patience I have. Same goes for epoxy. I must have just missed you here Barry, posting in the middle of the night, or UK morning time.

Dead right Bill, me too, I can only wait 5-10 mins for epoxy or Gorilla to dry but if it does become stable in that time and can be left to safely harden without moving then I'm really happy. It moves the build on really fast then.
I do tend to post in the morning our time which is just after midnight your time.

[baz49exe]

Yesterday I silked and varnished the fuselage and left it to dry overnight.
Today was freezing cold but dry so I could get outside to cut the fuselage wing bay out having first marked out the fuselage centre line and set the wing cutout and tailplane slot position at 0 degrees.
Cutting through a fuselage this thick was more like felling trees.
I couldn't resist putting the wing and fuz together and it looks big to me.
Stuck it on the scales and got a very nice 1lb 7oz AUW so far.

[riverrat]

Looking GOOD!

[baz49exe]

Hi Jimmy, I hope you are well over there. Thanks for the kind comment, it's going to be much better when I get some spackle and silk onto the wing. I used the last of my supply on the fuselage so I've just ordered another batch from Dharma Trading and I hope it's winging its way over right now.

Barry

[baz49exe]

I'm getting worried now as it is beginning to be a bit of a cannibal .
I needed 6mm depron for the tail surfaces but
I had totally run out so I looked at a printed P-40 which I had made a couple of years ago which I didn't really like much as it was profile.
It had two white geared hextronic 9g servos sitting in it and the wing was just a little larger than the Lanc tail plane so I cut it up and removed the
printed paper to find that I'd included a pine spar in the wing assembly.
It's now cut to profile and fitted to the rear fuselage of the Lanc.
At the moment it seems a little flexible but when it is silked it will stiffen up and if I'm not happy then I'll add foam profile to it. I really want to keep the tail feathers as light as possible though.
The elevator joiner made from a bent cycle spoke and control rod outer was placed into the tail plane slot before the plane was inserted and glued.
At the field a friend asked me if I wanted any depron so I immediately said
yes. He dropped a small piece around yesterday and it was just enough for
the twin tail fins which are now cut and are just resting on the elevator mounting spar extensions.
That means I can build the model without needing to buy
any more depron or servos. I'd buy it at the drop of a hat if it was available locally but the nearest supply is in Plymouth which is over 50 miles away.

[solentlife]

Was getting worried .... glad to see you getting on ...

For me to get Depron - I have to order it online ... then 3 days later is delivered if lucky.

Nigel

[baz49exe]

Yep! still here but slowing up:- it's the cold weather!!!
I could order depron on line but the postage is as much as the depron and that really annoys me.
I silked the tail plane and spackled the topside of the main wing this morning.
It's starting to feel more like interior decoration than model building.

[HO-229]

Looks great Barry!
Look forward to seeing it come together...
Wish this economy would start sorting itself out! What a mess...

Cheers,
Dave

[baz49exe]

Hi Dave,
It's getting there slowly but surely. I finished silking the tailplane, cut and sanded some sheet balsa elevators to profile while it was drying and made up some mylar hinges from computer disc material.
Slotted the elevators with a snap off knife and super glued the mylar hinges into place.
Ditto to the elevator sub spar and pushed the hinges into place. The fins were hot glued into place on the tailplane ends and held against a set square until the glue hardened.
Now the fuz is mostly together I want to get onto the main wing.
Sadly the UPS package which arrived from the States today was not my silk but my tiles which my wife had ordered.

[baz49exe]

It's coming together a little now.
The main wing is spackled, sanded and is ready for silk.
I added the ply wing retaining tabs to the bottom fuselage cut away section and glued the retaining bolts attached to ply plates into the fuselage main body. The ply tabs in the lower body section are drilled to drop over the protruding bolts and nuts will lock the whole assembly together.
Now I could use the mounting system to hold the wing firmly in place while I adjusted the wing seat so that it was square with the fuselage and tailplane assembly. It's now setup so I can move onto the nacelles next.
Can't wait for the silk to arrive.

[baz49exe]

I'm making progress on the engine nacelle, battery bay and motor cowl setup now.
The rear under wing part of the nacelle has been carved from foam and has the first rough coat of spackle.
The 10mm square mounting rod will locate into the front face of this and carries the battery bay area which is now framed in pizza tray depron and the pop bottle engine cowl.
The depron mid section will be infilled with foam block on the underside and a piece of foam will be inserted into the upper section to form the battery bay hatch.
Having got this far I can see this installation coming together in my mind now.
The battery will slide into the top of the bay and sit on the 10mm mounting rod, butting right up against the motor mount and resting both inside the bay and the cowl.
I hope!

[riverrat]

Barry.

Looking good!

Jimmy

[baz49exe]

Thanks very much Jimmy. I hope all is well with you down there.

The stereo speakers in the lounge had some spare cable hanging around so it became the signal connection wires for the four ESCs.
The left and right side looms were soldered up so that both motors are controlled together enabling differential thrust to be used. I won't need the power wire as the receiver is going to be powered by a dedicated supply.
The silk wing covering was split with a knife and the PVA coated wire was gently pressed into the slot until it lay under the silk and just below the surface. After it dries it will be covered with a strip of silk and varnish.
The front connections will be fitted with sockets for the motor ESCs signal wires to plug into.
Getting there.

[Bill G]

Originally Posted by baz49exe

Thanks very much Jimmy. I hope all is well with you down there.

The stereo speakers in the lounge had some spare cable hanging around so it became the signal connection wires for the four ESCs.
The left and right side looms were soldered up so that both motors are controlled together enabling differential thrust to be used. I won't need the power wire as the receiver is going to be powered by a dedicated supply.
The silk wing covering was split with a knife and the PVA coated wire was gently pressed into the slot until it lay under the silk and just below the surface. After it dries it will be covered with a strip of silk and varnish.
The front connections will be fitted with sockets for the motor ESCs signal wires to plug into.
Getting there.

I had an extra set of speakers that had the perfect grille material for the Dayton Wright RB1. Hated to pirate from them, but oh well.
The differential thrust sounds interesting for a plane this size with 4 motors. I really should have bought something a bit better when I bought a used DX6i, as I never seem to have channels freed up for the mixes. I could see it being practical for the Lancaster, as it reminds me of my Cox Airlifter conversion. It has a reasonably high aspect ratio wing with relatively small, short chord ailerons for the size of the plane, and simply would not turn adequately. Adding 1" length to the ailerons made it acceptable, but it certainly would be better with differential thrust control.

[baz49exe]

Originally Posted by Bill G

I had an extra set of speakers that had the perfect grille material for the Dayton Wright RB1. Hated to pirate from them, but oh well.
The differential thrust sounds interesting for a plane this size with 4 motors. I really should have bought something a bit better when I bought a used DX6i, as I never seem to have channels freed up for the mixes. I could see it being practical for the Lancaster, as it reminds me of my Cox Airlifter conversion. It has a reasonably high aspect ratio wing with relatively small, short chord ailerons for the size of the plane, and simply would not turn adequately. Adding 1" length to the ailerons made it acceptable, but it certainly would be better with differential thrust control.

Bill, so you got at the speakers as well LOL.
I've only got a DX6i as well so I took the very easy option for differential thrust and bought a basic V-tail mixer.
All I do is to plug the receiver output from the throttle and rudder into the mixer and plug the ESC signal leads into the mixer output.
Job done! The very easy way. No programming needed and for me that's a real bonus.
I've used it for all my twins so far as I feel it is a bit of insurance and besides that to perform a large flat turn with the Wellington just using differential motor power is very satisfying.
On the insurance side a modelling friend told me that a club member built a large B-17 years ago and it wouldn't turn.
That's not an option I was looking forward to and it is very much on my mind when I look at the Lancaster. At least if there is an issue I have the alternative method of turning to fall back on.

[Bill G]

The external mixer is a good thought for differential thrust. There's plenty of them around for cheap also, as more folks have the mixing and channel capability with their transmitters now. I was reading about using the $10 GWS v-tail mixer for differential thrust. The plane I had that would not turn, also did not have a working rudder. Ail/elev control works fine with warbirds but not large span bombers with relatively small ailerons! I think that was one of the last planes that I built, where I cheated and did not add a functional rudder. Now I not only add working rudders to builds, but often give them a small mix with the ailerons just to ensure good turning ability. You also reminded me to put 32ga servo extension wire on my LHS list. I started using the lighter gauge wire for long ESC/ail leads and lighting, as the standard (26?) gauge harness weight really starts to add up, and I believe it's often heavier than necessary. Some servo extension wiring has heavier than necessary insulation also. For 5gm and smaller sub-micro servos, I haven't had any issues with the thin gauge wiring, although it would be an issue for higher current draw.

[pattern14]

Bill has a got a good point there about mixing aileron and rudder for large (and not so large) models. Had similar problems with my first Ar234, experimenting with aileron sizes. She went from taking forever to circle, to barrel rolling, depending on aileron size and range of movement Ending up limiting the aileron movement, and mixing in rudder input. It meant that the rudder was still fully independent if needed for tight turns in big winds, but the whole nature of the plane simply felt more predictable and stable. I do not usually bother with rudders, as all mine are hand launched, and some what short -sightedly usually view the rudder set up as added weight and complexity.The fact that I use aileron /rudder mix on all my sailplanes as a matter of course obviously escaped me at the time The mixing ability for engine speed is a bonus in itself, as vectored thrust works brilliant on my experimental EDF's. Great work on the lancaster so far Barry; do you have a night bomber scheme for it, or will you go the dam buster style. Nothing like a bouncing bomb to please the crowd...keep up the good work