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Old 02-03-2013, 01:53 AM   #26
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lol, I have an old drab grey metal military-style desk in my shop, it would be a perfect level top, but its gotta weigh at least 400lbs(seems like it), but the better half doesn't like it in the house, "doesn't match"?? lol took 3 guys to get it out. I doubt its coming back in the house.... maybe after 2/14.....

Yeah Im gettin magnets.
if I don't like em, I do have 3 fridges

cr
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:49 PM   #27
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As far as glue joints go -

I try not to use fillets, they add weight, and are largely unnecessary with most of the joints in a plane. There are places where fillets are appropriate - wing roots, vertical and horizontal stab roots at the fuselage - etc - where the extra strength is a good thing to have, and the fillet adds to the visual appeal.

On interior joints - like a rib-to-spar joint - the wood/wood fit should be tight. If it isn't, recut the piece or reposition. A good tight, motionless joint - balsa-to-balsa - is an ideal candidate for a thin CA application.

I would never count on glue to span a gap in a joint. If I absolutely had to, I'd fill the gap with baking soda and hit it with CA (makes for a brittle joint, but it works), or "scab" in a small wood filler block.

Balsa-to-ply, balsa-to-hardwood, ply/ply, hardwood/hardwood joints are all places where I would consider using a white or yellow aliphatic glue. I thin it with a bit of water to get it to wick into the wood. The penetration of the glue into the wood is what gives the joint strength.

In highly stressed joints, like the main spar joining two wing halves, and the dihedral joint itself, I use epoxy.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:06 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Old 'N Slow View Post
As far as glue joints go -

I try not to use fillets, they add weight, and are largely unnecessary with most of the joints in a plane. There are places where fillets are appropriate - wing roots, vertical and horizontal stab roots at the fuselage - etc - where the extra strength is a good thing to have, and the fillet adds to the visual appeal.

On interior joints - like a rib-to-spar joint - the wood/wood fit should be tight. If it isn't, recut the piece or reposition. A good tight, motionless joint - balsa-to-balsa - is an ideal candidate for a thin CA application.

I would never count on glue to span a gap in a joint. If I absolutely had to, I'd fill the gap with baking soda and hit it with CA (makes for a brittle joint, but it works), or "scab" in a small wood filler block.

Balsa-to-ply, balsa-to-hardwood, ply/ply, hardwood/hardwood joints are all places where I would consider using a white or yellow aliphatic glue. I thin it with a bit of water to get it to wick into the wood. The penetration of the glue into the wood is what gives the joint strength.

In highly stressed joints, like the main spar joining two wing halves, and the dihedral joint itself, I use epoxy.
Okay, so maybe 1 part water to 10 parts glue.

I'm guessing epoxy on motor box also?

cr
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:26 PM   #29
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I would use epoxy around motor mount areas. But that's just me. I'm more used to glow engine-powered planes - and there's a lot of vibration in the firewall and mount area.
I'm sure there's less vibration with electric power. But the torque and thrust loads will be similar. So for me, I trust epoxy with those loads. I suspect epoxy is more heat-stable than some PVA glues, too.
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:28 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by CrimzonRider View Post
Okay, so maybe 1 part water to 10 parts glue.

I'm guessing epoxy on motor box also?

cr
I agree with old and slow about not needing fillits but your parts must fit tight. As far as CA its not needed and sands like . The only thing i can think of that;s not good about using a magnet building table is the first cost of all the parts .You can make some magnet uprights and other holding parts out of 1/8 inch ply and bolt the through the holes in the magnets. A electrict miter box is great for making ply parts so you can get true 90 degree cuts and 45 degree cuts also . A small table top drill press would come in handy for the small bolt holes and if you dont own these iam sure you know someone who you could let you use theirs for a couple hours or so. The slab of metal is costly but if you know a steel company close to you most times you can buy a scrap piece to lug home. My steel company where i buy my steel for the custom homes i build gets on my first payout every time so when i need 1inch thick x 3inx3in pieces of cut off steel the owner saves cut off pieces in 5 gallon buckets and tells me to help myself. I use the chuncks of heavy steel for building weights and if they are square pieces they can hold stuff at 90 degrres to my table till it drys . joe
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:00 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Old 'N Slow View Post
I would use epoxy around motor mount areas. But that's just me. I'm more used to glow engine-powered planes - and there's a lot of vibration in the firewall and mount area.
I'm sure there's less vibration with electric power. But the torque and thrust loads will be similar. So for me, I trust epoxy with those loads. I suspect epoxy is more heat-stable than some PVA glues, too.
I use epoxy also on the same areas and there is less vibration for electrict planes if they down't have slitely bent motor shafts and if they learn how to balance their props with a good balancer. I cant tell you how many times i seen new flyers break open a new prop out of its store plastic wrap and throw it on their plane and wonder why the plane shakes now. lmao joe
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:44 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by road king 97 View Post
The only thing i can think of that;s not good about using a magnet building table is the first cost of all the parts . joe
For me the first cost was just the price of 20 1" x 3/4" magnets, currently $8.45 from Easy Built Models (can probably be found for less). The second cost was when I plunked down for 20 more. That's it. My first surface was some sheet steel salvaged from a dead washing machine. That was fine but a little small for some wingspans I planned to build. Now I'm using a little heavier gauge piece about 11" x 48", some scrap left over from a non-RC project. Otherwise a suitable piece of steel could be the biggest expense, but the stuff is laying around for free or for scrap price if you keep your eyes open.

I can see some of those ply fixtures being handy at times, but they are absolutely not essential, or at least haven't been for any of the planes I've built to date.

Once you try a magnet board I doubt you would ever go back to pins!

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Old 02-03-2013, 11:05 PM   #33
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I build a little bigger plane than most here so i would have needed at least 100 inch piece of steel for my wings but i agree that there is plenty of places to find pieces of steel for very little costs . I have learned to build in foam in my old age but switching over to magnets after building with pushpins for 35 years might short out my brain fuse.lol I hope you guys go with magnets tho it looks great to build with. joe
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:06 PM   #34
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I ordered 20 hi-strength and 20 "lower" strength for 24 bucks shipped, bout the cheapest I found was around 38 cents, down side being they were shaped more like a bar(not enough height).
Ive already got two sheets of 28ga(from a horse trailer project).

cr
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:16 AM   #35
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In a 07' rcg building tip post I stumbled onto this...... basically a bazillion building tips and everything else you can think of links....E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G.

from Aero-towing & Airbrushes to Servos & Transmitter FAQ's! Bunch of DIY fixes


http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~atong/


Thanks again guys for all the great tips.
have a good one
CR
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:32 PM   #36
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Shoulda know to include an assortment of balsa stock to practice on or to replace pieces. Picked up 1/16", 1/8", 3/16" sheets that seemed to have a nice grain. Read the other night, how and where balsa is cut from the tree to end up with 3 grades of wood grain. Pretty interesting.

Thanks to BroncoSquid for pointing out that a Master Airscrew balsa stripper is an requirement. (Im sure everyone knew that ) Works good.

2" PVC pipe or a 24"x6" painters tray for soaking and a couple shots of household ammonia what I've read to help soften harder wood.

Guessing the more yellow the wood is(heartwood?), the stiffer.

Truly an art.

cr
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:16 PM   #37
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I started balsa in the 50's, lot has changed in 50 years but CF rods and Tow= (carbon fiber threads) have done more for building light planes than near anything , CA glue has made life a lot easier as well, bubsteve


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Old 02-10-2013, 01:16 AM   #38
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How about I get some Michelob, put some female "stuff" on the bench and forget the rest...

As far as glues go, I'll use epoxy for fiberglass and anything else besides wood. I don't like CA even though I haven't aquired any allergies to it yet. I use alphatic for all wood-to-wood and anything else porous. It cures lighter than other glues, sands more like the wood it's joining and it flexes rather than breaks. And if you stop and think about it, once the strength of the bond becomes equal to the strength of the materials being bonded you simply aren't going to get any more strength.

"Give a man a plane and he'll fly for a day.
Teach a man to build a plane and he'll fly for a lifetime"
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:02 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by stevecooper View Post
I started balsa in the 50's, lot has changed in 50 years but CF rods and Tow= (carbon fiber threads) have done more for building light planes than near anything , CA glue has made life a lot easier as well, bubsteve
Steve, Great pics w the kiddos. I do see that Tow for sale all the time on rcg, I'm dry fittin' wings right now. I did wonder about replacing top spars with some mini 1/16 CF. I'm guessing that the Tow is used for "cross-tying" & glueing @ intersections? Ill do a little more searching tonight.

Flywheel, its pronounced "meech-cha-laub" & yes female "stuff" has already crossed the boundary line in the center of the room, presently about 1-ft violation!! it touched my leg too!

I read somewhere today just on that, that CA also doesn't soak into the wood as well as yellow wood glue, but that either glue is stronger than the material that it is bonded too.

cr
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:12 PM   #40
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I guess I'm an equal opportunity glue user. I tend to use CA (thin and med) on the bulk of the balsa framing up jobs, TiteBond where I expect to need more sandability or need alignment time, and epoxy on things like motor boxes and spar joints.

On foam I use mostly white Gorilla Glue and some epoxy.

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Old 02-10-2013, 04:31 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by rreid7 View Post
I guess I'm an equal opportunity glue user. I tend to use CA (thin and med) on the bulk of the balsa framing up jobs, TiteBond where I expect to need more sandability or need alignment time, and epoxy on things like motor boxes and spar joints.

On foam I use mostly white Gorilla Glue and some epoxy.
In my very short experience with kits, I agree. General concensus is each type of glue has its place, pretty simple. For the time being, I am going to use CA very little, as I am in no hurry. Plus wood glue is more forgiving, as it will give me bonus time to correct the mistakes that I make.

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Old 02-10-2013, 08:24 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by CrimzonRider View Post
Steve, Great pics w the kiddos. I do see that Tow for sale all the time on rcg, I'm dry fittin' wings right now. I did wonder about replacing top spars with some mini 1/16 CF. I'm guessing that the Tow is used for "cross-tying" & glueing @ intersections? Ill do a little more searching tonight.

Flywheel, its pronounced "meech-cha-laub" & yes female "stuff" has already crossed the boundary line in the center of the room, presently about 1-ft violation!! it touched my leg too!

I read somewhere today just on that, that CA also doesn't soak into the wood as well as yellow wood glue, but that either glue is stronger than the material that it is bonded too.

cr
PM Me your address and I'll mail you a dozen feet free, you can pay-it-forward later, bubsteve


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Old 02-13-2013, 04:52 PM   #43
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Guessing magnets were on short backorder or someone messed up order/shipping, just shipped yesterday... they are now on a slow train from Alabama....hopefully, that's not anywhere near China......
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:56 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by CrimzonRider View Post
Guessing magnets were on short backorder or someone messed up order/shipping, just shipped yesterday... they are now on a slow train from Alabama....hopefully, that's not anywhere near China......
I very rarely order online but when i do i hate waiting for stuff. joe
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:36 PM   #45
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That's no lie! Brings up another point, almost all of the "specialized" equipment that I needed was purchased at LHS, no shipping/waiting and prices were lil cheaper than online.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:58 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by CrimzonRider View Post
That's no lie! Brings up another point, almost all of the "specialized" equipment that I needed was purchased at LHS, no shipping/waiting and prices were lil cheaper than online.
Went out today
bubsteve


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Old 02-13-2013, 10:44 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by stevecooper View Post
Went out today
bubsteve
Thank you Sir!
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:42 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by stevecooper View Post
Went out today
bubsteve

Thanks again Steve appreciate it....recv'd today!

cr
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