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Old 07-24-2012, 11:38 PM   #1
zorax2
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Default Which plane ParkZone T-28 Trojan or Eflite Carbon Z Yak 54?

I'm wondering whether to get a Parkzone T-28 or an Eflite Carbon Z Yak 54 as my second plane. So far, I've flown a SuperCub and Radian for planes and 450 and 600 class helicopters (hovering and circuits w/some inverted flying).

I'm self taught and the SuperCub and Radian are very easy for me to fly stalls, turns, loops with no disorientation. I've done a lot of sim time for the T-28 on Phoenix and find it very easy to fly.

I don't want to buy a T-28 and find myself wishing for more after several flights. I wish I would have perhaps started with a T-28 rather than the SuperCub and don't want to have that happen again.

If I use very low dual rate settings and throttle back on the Yak 54 to start, will it work as my next plane?
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:47 PM   #2
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I will ALWAYS have a T-28 in my hangar. It is that great an airplane.

I don't think you would have trouble with either however with your heli skills. What do you want out of your second plane? Aerobatics, 3D, Sport?

I am not wild about the Yak - there are better choices IMHO.

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Old 07-25-2012, 12:05 AM   #3
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I'm leaning towards the Yak for the ability to grow more with it. Initially, I'd like to do basic aerobatics and grow from there. I don't want to go all out 3D nor would I have the skill at this point to do it. I also don't want to go full throttle 70 mph - way too fast for me. I've read that the Yak is well behaved at slower speeds with dual rates which seems to be more fitting for my style.

Everyone says, like you do, that the T-28 is a great plane to have. I'm sure I'd enjoy it but don't want to get bored quickly with it.

My rationale for the e-Flite Yak is the easy availability and accessability to parts. I want to fly - not build which is why I'd like a foamie. I've learned that my helis are a real PITA when crashed and they take so much time to repair which really cuts back on my enjoyment of them. A bottle of Gorilla Glue and CA can fix about any crash I have with a foamie.

You mention that you would choose something other than the Carbon Z Yak. What would that be?
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:24 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by zorax2 View Post
Everyone says, like you do, that the T-28 is a great plane to have. I'm sure I'd enjoy it but don't want to get bored quickly with it.


You mention that you would choose something other than the Carbon Z Yak. What would that be?
I have flown for 34 years and I am not bored with the T-28. It is an excellent aerobatics trainer. What is more important is just an all around great plane to fly.

If you want more aerobatics I would go for the Slick or Edge from 3DHS. However they are balsa models. If you want a foamy their Edge would be an excellent choice.

http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/40-EPP-Edge_p_16186.html

Mike
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:55 AM   #5
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I have the PZ T-28 and it was my second plane. Still like it 13 planes later. Eflight , Hangar 9, PZ all make pretty good stuff IMO. Horizon has themselves a nice line up and the LHS's support them well.

Alot of versions of the T-128 out there. The HK Durafly version has all the bells and whistles like retracts and flaps.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=20850

I have a Durafly DH-88 Comet and am very impressed with the quality of this line.

Here's a Yak-54 ARF for $64.00 Balsa construction. Still need motor, servos & esc. Good reviews.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5257

The guys I know that fly the Edge from 3DHS love them. Nice company with great support.

Very high quality.You don't have to fly a 3D capable plane 3D. But it's there.

Alot depends on your budget.

Good luck !

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Old 07-25-2012, 06:04 AM   #6
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Sounds like you could handle the Yak. From most reports, for an RTF, the Yak is pretty good. However at that price there are a lot of choices and if you were willing to do a couple of evening's of work assembling an ARF then there are what I'd consider to be a lot better planes available for the same money.

If you want 3D aerobatic you might want to look at the offerings from 3D Hobbyshop and Extreme Flight
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:31 PM   #7
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Another suggestion would be any of the twisted hobbies EPP foamies. I have the crack Pitts and it flies wonderfully as a fully aerobatic 3d ship on high rates but is also a great plane on low rates for doing simple aerobatics as well. Very well behaved at slow speeds too. Pretty indestructble as well since I've nosed it in on the parking lot a few times, had a bunch of unscheduled inverted landings. Couple minor foam tears which are simple to fix and its back in the air. Heck it met the ground 3 times this morning trying stuff I shouldn't have been trying at 5 feet off the ground. No damage at all just kept on going. I love it.

I actually ordered another twisted hobbies plane last night. getting the extra slick. Can't wait to fly that one.

Chris

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Old 07-25-2012, 08:42 PM   #8
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Wow Ė thanks for all of the suggestions. Iíve got kids (10, 10 and 12) that Iíd like to teach how to fly at some point which suggests an intermediate step to a Parkforce T-28 or F4F Wildcat may be more prudent for now. Iíve got five 3S 2200 batteries and a great 306B iCharger for use with my Trex 450 and Super Cub so Iíd be in great shape with a T-28 or Wildcat as compared to buying new batteries for a Yak.

Iíve read a lot of reviews on both the T-28 and Wildcat and it sounds as if either would be a good choice for a step up plane. I nearly always fly on grass Ė which is sometimes cut low but not always. On my Super Cub, Iíve put on Dubro 2.5Ē wheels to replace the stock wheels but still have trouble taking off (canít get the plane rolling without nosing over) and landing (noses over even when making a perfect landing). One of the fields I fly on is a sod farm which occasionally has a solid surface on the fields without grass. With a smooth surface my take offs and landings are a piece of cake.

Will I have difficulty flying the T-28 off grass (perhaps it has bigger wheels than Iím using on the SC)? Can the T-28 be hand launched easily? The Wildcat offers some advantages with being designed for a hand launched takeoffs and skid in landings but Iím concerned about losing orientation due to its color. If you think a T-28 will hold up well with nose-in landings, that might be the ďclassicĒ best intermediate plane.

So, T-28 or Wildcat?

Thank you all again for your help!
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:51 PM   #9
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If you are hand launching the F4F Wildcat would be better. It is not as aerobatic as the T-28 though!

I know choices choices...

Mike
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:54 PM   #10
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Woah, hang on guys. Did we just tell him he would be okay with a high end, high performance, fast and touchy 3D monster for a second plane? I happen to own the CZ yak, and take it from me, it's no second airplane for learning to fly ailerons. Yes, it flies nice and smooth on low rates, but it comes in fast for landings (especially without flaps), and doesn't slow down like the t-28 does without high alpha. Not to mention how fast it can be.

I also own the T-28. It was my second plane. It's perhaps one of the best flying models ever built IMO. It's been with me from the start, and even after 2 years, and abuse from teaching me to fly 4ch, it's still going strong. I wouldn't dream of letting her out of my hanger. Although it doesn't provide quite the thrill my faster or more aerobatic planes do, in no way do I get bored flying it. The T-28 will do knife edges, inverted, snaps rolls, rolls, loops, outside loops, hammerheads, and just about any other sport maneuver you want. Once you feel confidant with all those maneuvers, then maybe consider something like the yak.

"I didn't crash... I just did an inverted nose landing!"
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:27 PM   #11
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I've got a few 3D planes with considerably more performance than the stock Yak and I'd not describe any of them as 'monsters' in any way at all. Nor are they particularly fast (despite having over 1kw under the hood in some cases). 3D models aren't about top speed.. 'Twitchy'; well maybe, but only if you have very high rates set. Put in low sports rates and they are really very easy to fly.

I've never quite understood why people seem to spread the rumour that high performance 3D models are inherently hard to fly. Possibly people like to make out they are some kind of vicious monster that can only be tamed by the most expert of flyer to make themselves look good? IMHO nothing could be further from the truth, sure they aren't trainers but they are a lot easier to fly than some semi scale sports models I've owned in the past.

Admittedly I cant speak first hand about the Yak specifically and I know for a 3D model of that size it is a bit heavy side, so probably doesn't slow up as well as my balsa 3D models, but I'd be surprised and disappointed if it was that tricky. If it really is that bad then it must be a total dog and would best be avoided at all costs, there are plenty of sweet flying 3D models out there.

Though I do agree that such models are a bit of a stretch as a second model, but not impossible considering the OP has had some sim time and flies helicopters etc. Compared to a helicopter ANY fixed wing plane is a trainer.

Steve
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:38 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
I've got a few 3D planes with considerably more performance than the stock Yak and I'd not describe any of them as 'monsters' in any way at all.

I've never quite understood why people seem to spread the rumour that high performance 3D models are inherently hard to fly.

Steve
+1

I am not a 3D flyer but LOVE my "3D" planes. I set them for sport throws and wild throws but find them to be among the most enjoyable planes to fly. They are VERY gentle on landings since they are so light and floaty.

You can set them up to be wonderful sport models IMHO.

Mike
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:59 AM   #13
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Nope didn't recommend the yak. I think the t28 is a fine choice. I don't have one but ive flown one and it's a great plane. If concerned with outgrowing it quickly and wanting to progress there are a ton of EPP 3d type planes that on lower rates are a joy to fly.

Chris

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Old 07-26-2012, 02:19 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
I've got a few 3D planes with considerably more performance than the stock Yak and I'd not describe any of them as 'monsters' in any way at all. Nor are they particularly fast (despite having over 1kw under the hood in some cases). 3D models aren't about top speed.. 'Twitchy'; well maybe, but only if you have very high rates set. Put in low sports rates and they are really very easy to fly.

I've never quite understood why people seem to spread the rumour that high performance 3D models are inherently hard to fly. Possibly people like to make out they are some kind of vicious monster that can only be tamed by the most expert of flyer to make themselves look good? IMHO nothing could be further from the truth, sure they aren't trainers but they are a lot easier to fly than some semi scale sports models I've owned in the past.

Admittedly I cant speak first hand about the Yak specifically and I know for a 3D model of that size it is a bit heavy side, so probably doesn't slow up as well as my balsa 3D models, but I'd be surprised and disappointed if it was that tricky. If it really is that bad then it must be a total dog and would best be avoided at all costs, there are plenty of sweet flying 3D models out there.

Though I do agree that such models are a bit of a stretch as a second model, but not impossible considering the OP has had some sim time and flies helicopters etc. Compared to a helicopter ANY fixed wing plane is a trainer.

Steve
Your right. I did exaggerate 3D models, but coming off of a super cub and a radian (neither of which have ailerons), IMHO the yak would seem like a monster on high rates. I did say, however, that it does fly nice and smooth on low rates, but i would still not consider it to be "floaty". There are plenty of floaty profile EPP 3d planes that bounce right back up after a minor crash, but the cz yak simply isn't like this. As for the speed side of things, to me and you, (i'm assuming from your name you fly EDFs or fast prop jets ) 70MPH isn't all that crazy fast, but for somebody coming off of a cub and a glider, thats pretty darn fast. I remember my first flights after a 3ch trainer on my T-28, and it seemed like it was going 100MPH, when realistically it was probably going 30 or 40 . I agree with you about his heli experience being helpful, however flying a fixed wing is quite different from flying a heli. It doesn't all transfer over.

Either way, I still think he should go with the PZ T-28 or Wildcat, but i'm sure he could probably handle an EPP profile 3D bird just fine. Your right, it is possible for him to have success with the cz yak, but I think he would be much better off with one of the planes mentioned above.

"I didn't crash... I just did an inverted nose landing!"
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:37 PM   #15
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I would stay well clear of the Carbon Z Yak unless you have alot of experience. I have one and it flies absolutely brilliantly. It's easy to control and does any manoevre with ease but it is a pig to land nicely. You need to fly it in under power and not slow it down too much cause at about 3 feet off the ground it will throw itself at the ground if you don't have enough speed and it's not light. Coming in under power means once its touched down nicely it will shoot past and keep going. The temptation is to come in slower and that's when the problems arise. I'm not a beginner, I have 30 years experience and am a club trainer so have flown just about everything and the yak is definitely not a beginners model when it comes to landing.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:12 AM   #16
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That just doesn't sound like any 3D model I've flown. All of mine land slow and floaty. If it's heavy and doesn't like to slow up it must be hard work to fly 3D.. no?
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:10 PM   #17
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Its not really that heavy (about 4 pounds) but it certainly doesn't like to be slowed up off the throttle. It does 3d really well because its running 1000 watts and will prop hang on half throttle.When you slow it up off throttle it all looks good then suddenly you run out of lift and it drops like a brick. If you come in slightly high alpha with power its no problem but you need a pretty rearward CofG to do this cleanly and newbies won't be able to cope with the quick response that comes with a rearward CofG. I'm not slating the Carbon Z Yak don't get me wrong, just wouldn't like anyone to spend alot of money on something they're not going to be able to use.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:20 AM   #18
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Squidger,

I used to have the old extreme Flight yak 54e and that had a similar 'fall out of the sky' issue if you came in dead stick and tried to stretch the glide. I put it down the the big radial cowl acting like an airbrake.

My current crop of 3D planes fly very differently and can be stretched on the approach quite well with no nasty sudden stall (unless you really provoke them). A slightly forward CG does also help make landing approaches easier, rearward 3D friendly CG takes some getting used to.

Shame we didn't live closer, it would be interesting to compare notes on the models you could have a go on the sticks of my Edge and Laser and see how they compared to the Yak.

How is the Yak at harrier'ing? I can harrier ok but I'm still working on my hover. There is no shortage of power, the Edge only weighs 3.25lb but has 8.8lb of thrust!.. Just lack of skill and over-caution on my part . I should really get myself a small cheap foamy to practice.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:19 PM   #19
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To be honest I havn't flown the Yak as much as I would like cause it runs 4s 3200 batteries. As I charge on site from a booster pack these take alot of power to charge so I tend to use the charger for other aircraft. This meant I would fly the Yak once then wouldn't fly it again for a few days so never really got to grips with it. I now have 3 batteries for it so can fly more and explore the capabilities.With my rearward CG it seems to harrier ok. The problem I had last time I flew it was I came in very high alpha and dragged the tail through long grass then did a go around and flew a couple of circuits. When I landed I noticed most of the left elevator was missing.Because the front of the elevator is forward of the hingepoint at the outside tip for balance, it goes down when the elevator goes up. Grass then got caught in the gap between the elevator and stab and ripped the whole thing off when I throttled up to go around. She flew perfectly on 1 elevator so I didn't notice till I landed.

I got an RC Factory Yak 55 foamy to practice with and it really helped with my 3d manoevres. Am tryin rolling harriers now. Some are fairly good but most are horrible. My best 3d practice aircraft is my TechOne Venus. Really lightweight and can fly any manoevre cleanly. Recently bought an Edge 540 in 32inch span but it uses 4s power and is so quick it dissappears at such a small wingspan but good fun.
Yeah shame we don't live closer. Would like to be able to swap models etc
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:23 PM   #20
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Of course the answer is to get both. They are both on my wishlist for sure.
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:57 PM   #21
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Now thats my way of thinking.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:08 PM   #22
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Got my CZ Yak now ... boy what a model ... only managed two flights on Saturday with it (only have 2 4S packs ... 2 more ordered now), but can't wait to fly it again.

Landing was nice and gentle but I took everyones advise and flew it in on the power until about 3foot and then just eased off the power and let her touch down. Probably my best landing ever !

Question: Has anyone tried mixing flaps in using the two aileron servos on the yak ?

2xAlign 450SE, Acromaster, MX2, Acrowot, Squall & Blaze
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:33 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by n_jepson View Post
Got my CZ Yak now ... boy what a model ... only managed two flights on Saturday with it (only have 2 4S packs ... 2 more ordered now), but can't wait to fly it again.

Landing was nice and gentle but I took everyones advise and flew it in on the power until about 3foot and then just eased off the power and let her touch down. Probably my best landing ever !

Question: Has anyone tried mixing flaps in using the two aileron servos on the yak ?

Yes, and it's a nightmare. Especially on a DX6I. When I got my DX8 I set them up on there, and it was much easier, but still not particularly simple to do. In my opinion, it is worth the struggle though. You'll enjoy those flaps.

"I didn't crash... I just did an inverted nose landing!"
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:45 PM   #24
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I'm surprised you didn’t have problems with flaperons. The problems I've found on other planes are:
1. The surfaces bind because the combination of full flap plus full aileron make the surface hit the end of its travel (especially given that 3D models have 35-45 deg of aileron travel to start with)
2. With the flaperans deployed 'down' as flaps the ailerons become very unresponsive and often actually work in reverse or cause one wing to stall.. and the plane crashes!

My advice to anyone trying flaperons would be to first use them cautiously at a very safe height.
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:37 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
I'm surprised you didnít have problems with flaperons. The problems I've found on other planes are:
1. The surfaces bind because the combination of full flap plus full aileron make the surface hit the end of its travel (especially given that 3D models have 35-45 deg of aileron travel to start with)
2. With the flaperans deployed 'down' as flaps the ailerons become very unresponsive and often actually work in reverse or cause one wing to stall.. and the plane crashes!

My advice to anyone trying flaperons would be to first use them cautiously at a very safe height.
+1

However, the ailerons seem to work fine on the yak with flaperons down. I find them useful for slowing down and trying hovers and high alpha.

"I didn't crash... I just did an inverted nose landing!"
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