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Sport Planes (Formerly I/C & Gas Conversion) Discuss I/C or Gas Conversions, Aerobatic Planes and Sport Aircraft

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Old 02-22-2013, 02:51 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Scirocco14 View Post
I'm just hard-headed and am going to build it per the plans.
Mark
It's OK we all make mistakes.

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Old 02-22-2013, 02:57 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
It's OK we all make mistakes.

You guys crack me up.

Here's my 4*Star 40 slimer...

Mark
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:59 PM   #28
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Its all good....
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:59 PM   #29
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Top formers going in place.


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Old 02-22-2013, 11:27 PM   #30
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mark,i agree with the bottom hatch looking better and keeping the topside clean. just figure a way to plug the batts like with an under the fuse arming switch.on the GP 300s extra and Sig hog bipe i load the batteries and button the hatch closed. then i lay the plane on the ground for the opportune time to arm the batteries using a deans connector.

the main reason for the arming plug is ease and the ability to leave the planes looks clean. heads uprc has a ready made selection but i prefer to solder my own.




MPI HD High Current Arming Switch with 12 gauge wire
Out of Stock
Price: $12.95










MPI High Current Arming Switch with 14 gauge wire
In Stock
Price: $9.95










MPI No Spark High Current Arming Switch with 12 gauge wire
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Price: $16.95

narrow is the place to land...wide is the space to crash....choose the narrow way!
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:31 PM   #31
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Thanks for the links to the arming plug. I'm new to electrics and I'm definitely looking into them. I'm surprised the heli guys don't use them more, except that we have 'throttle hold' functions on the transmitters in heli mode. My Futaba 7C has it on the heli mode but not airplane mode.

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Old 02-23-2013, 03:51 AM   #32
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mark, the arming switch is a break in the circuit of the batteries to esc, theres no waste of energy while the battery is plugged in and tucked away in the fuse.helie guys wouldn't want an arming switch as they don't wait after plugging the battery in and flying. me...i have 2 heavy birds[hog,extra] that i like having ready to go and only a little plug in my pocket to to use to have a good time flying.

i figure you already know this, but you mention the throttle hold on your TX and the arming switch and throttle hold are 2 totally different things. i always have the throttle hold button pushed when setting any plane up for flying or doing a range check.if the battery is plugged in then the throttle hold won't stop the use of elec to the esc,servos,motor..ect..ect.

you won't need the arming switch if access to your battery connection is easy to get at...me..i just like placing the hog on the flight line with the rx auxillay battery turned on and the plug/switch is like inserting a key,then off i go with no bottom hatch issues if i change my mind and wait,and the clean fusealage look remains as designed. each to his own,but most scale type kits look better if theres no top hatch. unless of coarse we're talking a full canopy cover like the 3dhs planes or similar type.

i made top hatchs for the following kits,tower hobbies uproar,the sig cobra canopy became the top load,and the mini telemaster,sig aquastar,and both sail planes .[skimmer,bot]

the gp extra,hog bipe,herr cub,herr pitts,herr breezy day parkflyers[2] were all bottom hatchs or the cosmetics would be spoiled. every arf i have that are foamies are top loaded but they have that arf look and can't beat that for ease...lol.most all these kits are glow conversions.

so my vote remains bottom hatch.....with an easy way to plug or unplug the batts.

narrow is the place to land...wide is the space to crash....choose the narrow way!
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:01 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Scirocco14 View Post
Thanks for the links to the arming plug. I'm new to electrics and I'm definitely looking into them. I'm surprised the heli guys don't use them more, except that we have 'throttle hold' functions on the transmitters in heli mode. My Futaba 7C has it on the heli mode but not airplane mode.

Mark
You can also make your own Arming Plug with those Anderson Power Pole connectors, and a piece of 1/4 inch plywood.

IMHO, any model with more than perhaps a few hundred watts absolutely must have either an easy way to disconnect the battery, or an arming switch.

I've got four 1 KW models, two 2KW models, one 3KW model. These things can do a LOT of damage, if they start unexpectedly.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:25 AM   #34
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mark - I just stumbled on your Sig 4 Star 20 EP build & just wanted to add I use the very same portable stand with a number of electrics with bottom hatches, & like you say, how much trouble is it to turn the plane over? I even have a Sig Seniorita EP & a Sig Senior ARF EP that both have bottom hatches. The big guy I just have to watch the wing tips (we have sun shades over our pits in the CA desert).

Having said that I built a Sig Kadet LT-25 from a kit & I put a top hatch in that. And now I am building a Venture 60 kit (from the same designer as the Sig Four Star 40) & it is going to have a top hatch. So they both have reasons for their use. But with that smaller Sig, I see absolutely no problems. The arming switch is also a very good idea but I religiously lock my throttle with my Hitec Aurora 9 radio (not throttle hold) as soon as I turn it on, so haven't had to install them so far. Good luck with the Sig.

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Old 02-23-2013, 04:45 AM   #35
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seriously a great point made about being able to unplug quickly!it's a safety thing if necessary, you'll be glad you can cut the juice to a crashed plane asap.

i crashed the Herr mini sport in water and getting the battery in and out with a bottom hatch was always a "pita" tight fit! i had to wait for the esc to stop smoking first and then got the battery out hot also.way to small a plane to bother with an arming switch.



thats the other reason i like the switch on my larger birds[only use it on 2 planes]one flys on 6 cells and the extra will be 7 cells this spring.when done flying and taxing back to the flight line,it's pull the arming switch and turn off the Rx switch. sweet! makes glow pilots jealous to see the ease of flying 60"ws planes...no muss ,no fuss.

narrow is the place to land...wide is the space to crash....choose the narrow way!
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:44 PM   #36
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I have never used arming devices on my planes even my larger ones.

I do one significant thing for safety and it covers more than an arming switch as you can stop throttle at any time. I set throttle CUT on all my planes and use it until it is ready for action.

On my primary radio I assign the switch right on top of the throttle stick. Up position is on and any other takes the ESC to -125% and shuts it off. I use quality equipment and ESC's and test (without a prop obviously) goes to off as well. I have found some cheapo ESC's that do not always react that way!

To me this is the only safe option - as you can enact it without access to the model.

Also almost all quality ESC's won't arm until they are at the "throttle off" setting. So leaving your throttle stick at half won't arm the ESC. This seems odd - but works - again test with the propeller off. Other ESC's I use require an arm sequence. Start at throttle off then go to full, then back to off.

Mike
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:48 PM   #37
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This is great! I'm fairly new to electrics and I appreciate all the tips and advice.

Mark
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:12 PM   #38
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Today's Largely Useless Factoid! Back in the mid to late 1990's, Tom Cimato's 'MaxCim' was the first brushless drivetrain made and sold in the US and aimed at sports RC type models. As the motor and ESC were a matched unit, you bought the lot in one box to start with, and Tom included a safety arming plug with the wiring harness.

It was very similar to those above in Stuart's posting, using a plug into two square Deans sockets. As Tom had designed the motor and ESC as a common unit, it also only armed the motor - you could plug in a battery, check your radio then arm the motor with the plug.

The safety plug concept went away with the 'invention' and rapid spread of sensorless motors and ESCs - MaxCims had sensored motor control - but has recently been resurrected - with a patent pending - in the form of the 'ArmSafe' - http://www.sharprc.com/catalog/index.php

Must confess that though I used MaxCim's safety arming widget, and could have replicated it with subsequent motors from other makes, I stopped using it eventually.

One, it's one more thing to wire in. Even with a little soldering experience , I found them a pain to fit to some models, plus in a small model like the ten cell (nicad) powered ships I loved and the likes of the Four Star 20, they will perhaps not fit in and around the expensive stuff. I recall it being a fuss with my 20 nicad cell powered Four Star 40 way back too - there wasn't much room left in the fuselage aorund that battery pack! Fitting an 'ArmSafe' or similar to a 4*20 would require it to be put into the bay just aft of the firewall, best I can figure, and be equipped with dedicated wiring to house the wiring harness within the model.

Two - If you establish a pre-flight checklist and routine for each of your models and stick to it, you can get to the flying area alive and well without a safety plug. One good point, for an example, is an ESC that will not arm until you move the throttle to 'low' and wait for it to beep at you. At that point, you should be on the pilot's station, model pointed somewhere safely and ready to arm the drivetrain, check the controls and go play.

The one model I have that gives me the heeby-jeebies is my Speedy Bee. It has little clearance between underwing and ground/table, rounded wingtips and I'm never far from the prop as I put the battery in through a side hatch with the model stood on a wingtip so I can get to the side hatch. If I ever get around to trying an 'ArmSafe', it'll go into the Speedy for sure.

Idle 'lawyerbabble' - read the manual carefully for your ESC and make sure you know and understand how and when it arms! Also, they ain't all the same.

My cheap route - all my own design models have top hatches designed for easy battery replacement, removal and plugging/unplugging. Carry model to start line, put on ground, plug in pack while standing with feet either side of fuselage ahead of tailplane and throttle set to 'starting checklist' position. Check out, go fly.

It's down to personal tastes really.

D
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:36 PM   #39
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Although I am not a fan of bottom battery covers, I liked how the one on my eflight alpha 450 sport was done. It was easy to get to(although you did have to flip the plane over) and had two holes in the battery cover. This let's you do two things. Plug in your battery, leavng the plugs out side of the plane, and allows you to never worry about loosing the hatch.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:07 PM   #40
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More progress...

Captain Morgan bottles have another use besides storing great tasting elixirs...

I also included a picture of the SIG Aerobipe I built last winter and decided to electrocute it this winter. It's going to get a good, ol' fashioned silk & dope finish. Just picked out the SIG ESAKI silk for it at the LHS today.

Mark


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Old 02-28-2013, 08:34 PM   #41
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Fuselage almost done. Tail feathers hinged...starting to look like a 4*Star!

Picked up a 10x7E prop for it at the LHS. I used the Castle Creations Prop Calculator program, that was the first time I'd used it. Very nice program! Based on those calcs, the 10x7E will give me the most efficiency and longest flight time.


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Old 03-01-2013, 01:10 AM   #42
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I don't like the blue covering, looks tacky, I'd use MonoKote!
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:15 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by soarrich View Post
I don't like the blue covering, looks tacky, I'd use MonoKote!
Huh? That's painter's tape holding the top sheeting in place while the glue dries...



Or was that an attempt at humor?

Mark
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:58 AM   #44
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Hey! New cheap covering, albeit only in blue, green and white-ish. Who cares that it's not fuel proof!

D
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Old 03-01-2013, 03:19 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Scirocco14 View Post


Or was that an attempt at humor?

Mark
An attempt at humor, I guess I should not give up my day job! Wait a second I'm retired, I don't have a day job.

Love the plane and the build, I may do one.
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Old 03-01-2013, 03:59 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by soarrich View Post
An attempt at humor, I guess I should not give up my day job! Wait a second I'm retired, I don't have a day job.

Love the plane and the build, I may do one.
No problem, it's all good! It's hard to tell on the internet what somebody is trying to say. The smilies help.

I will be using Monokote for this plane. I thought (albeit very briefly) about doing a silk & dope finish on this one but want to see it fly soon, since it's my first electric build.

You should build this plane, it's a great kit, laser cut and if it flies as good as all the other 4*Stars then it'll be one of my 'go to' planes when I go flying.

Cheers!

Mark
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:31 PM   #47
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If you use Monokote, go easy on the shrinking part when you do the tailfeathers - they look pretty bend-able.

Mine's covered in SolarFilm Lite - SoLite and many other names. THough some find it tends to stick to itself when you peel the backing off, I've not found this with my present favourites of cream and red. It does shrink well, but not hard enough to twist light surfaces, and lasts fine. My Lazy Bee is covered in the same stuff and is now over five years old with no puncture wounds.

D
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:45 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Dereck View Post
If you use Monokote, go easy on the shrinking part when you do the tailfeathers - they look pretty bend-able.

Mine's covered in SolarFilm Lite - SoLite and many other names. THough some find it tends to stick to itself when you peel the backing off, I've not found this with my present favourites of cream and red. It does shrink well, but not hard enough to twist light surfaces, and lasts fine. My Lazy Bee is covered in the same stuff and is now over five years old with no puncture wounds.

D
Thanks, Dereck. I will be careful.

Last winter I built a Scout 15 by Craft Air and covered it in orange Monokote. It has about the same size tail feathers, and didn't have any trouble with bending, etc.

Mark





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Old 03-07-2013, 01:25 AM   #49
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A few more pics of the progress. I installed the rudder & elevator servos, the pushrod tubes in the fuselage. Instead of using the stock .035" wire, I'm using the Dubro 1/2A control rods & pushrod tube kit w/ .047" wire. Just for a little more strength and control.

Mark


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Old 03-12-2013, 12:36 AM   #50
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covering has started!


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