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Old 01-19-2014, 04:09 PM   #1
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Default New guy with a new plane

Hey guys,
I'm Lou and I have been building and playing with RC trucks, cars & rock crawlers off and on for the past 25 years. I stumbled across nitroplane.com & saw electric warbirds. Well after playing with a flight simulator I ordered a 800mm Corsair RTF. I already have the lipo charger so I figured what the heck. I am wondering if I'm over my head? I read a lot and the all recommend trainers but they don't look cool! Any advise & comments are welcome. I look forward to being part of your forum.
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:40 PM   #2
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I have the airfield 800mm corsair, it can be a handful, make sure you look around on the forum for the thread on the cg issue... i dont know if its been corrected at the factory by now, i picked mine up about 2yrs ago.

Need More Glue!!!
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:49 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by mudbeast2 View Post
Hey guys,
I'm Lou and I have been building and playing with RC trucks, cars & rock crawlers off and on for the past 25 years. I stumbled across nitroplane.com & saw electric warbirds. Well after playing with a flight simulator I ordered a 800mm Corsair RTF. I already have the lipo charger so I figured what the heck. I am wondering if I'm over my head? I read a lot and the all recommend trainers but they don't look cool! Any advise & comments are welcome. I look forward to being part of your forum.
First of all, welcome to Watt Flyer. You will get a lot of help here from folks that have been doing this for years and from those of us with even a bit less experience.

Though I don't know personally anything about the Corsair you have, I will say this. It will be well worth it to get a trainer first, looks and "coolness" have very little to do with learning to fly. The frustration of crashing in the first few seconds of learning to fly will take a lot of coolness out of the experience. Things move a lot faster in real time vs. a simulator, though that is a very good place to start. If possible find someone who already flies and get them to give you the low down. A buddy box is (two radios wired together) is ideal. But trying to learn on a twitchy low wing is a set up for a crash real quick.

Many of us have had to learn the hard way... you don't have to.

happy flying!

Jeff

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Old 01-19-2014, 05:01 PM   #4
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Hi Mudbeast, and welcome to WF. Yep, unless you are 'the chosen one', you're most likely in over your head! What you've posted above is the classic thing we see in this and about any other rc flying forum very often. I swear I'm gonna write a text file explaining this that I can copy and paste for just such occasions in the future.

A trainer, unlike that Corsair, will be self stabilizing by design, not so touchy to the controls, and most likely fly slower. And while they may not look cool, if you truly start enjoying flying, than like many others, you'll appreciate how nice that trainer flies and keep it long after you've used it for its purpose. I'm up to flying an E-flite F-4 Phantom now, and I turned down a $100 offer for my old Apprentice! There's many just like me in that regard. Not all, but many.

Unlike the cars, one that plane leaves the ground you won't be able to just stop if thing get out of hand. And trust me, No matter how slow that plane is, for your first flights it'll feel like it's going mach 1! And a plane which has never flown before WILL need some trimming to fly straight on its first flight, sometimes it takes several to get it right. So you'd be a test pilot so doesn't know how to fly, flying a plane which has never been test flown before! Which comes to another point. How are the spare parts availability for that plane?

I'd say put that Corsair on the shelf and admire it for now. Get a trainer and let that one take the punishment of a new pilot, then that Corsair will have a fighting chance. Even the sim will only help so much. It might be enough to keep your plane in one piece, but the odds are against it, especially with a small warbird. If you have LOTS of sim practice. There are several good trainers out there. The HobbyZone Super Cub (not just any Cub!), the Delta Ray, the Apprentice S. There are some others, but make sure spare parts are easily available. Search around. If you have the space, then bigger can be better as the larger planes are less squirrelly and more tolerant of wind.

So now before anyone else beats me to it, (though I've been typing so long a few posts might have beat me)I'll link the classic 'my edf plane goes 100mph' video someone made since it's so common. Not to be insulting! Just so you know you're not the first person who wanted to start big!

And now for your viewing pleasure!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKTT...e_gdata_player
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Old 01-19-2014, 05:08 PM   #5
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I just thought of a funny analogy to trying to learn on a warbird or that ' 100mph jet'. If your son or daughter was leaning to drive, would you seat them next to you in an old steel Volvo, or would you set them in a Formula one car and say good luck!?
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Old 01-19-2014, 05:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by xmech2k View Post
I just thought of a funny analogy to trying to learn on a warbird or that ' 100mph jet'. If your son or daughter was leaning to drive, would you seat them next to you in an old steel Volvo, or would you set them in a Formula one car and say good luck!?
Very good point. What would be a good trainer at a fair price? Preferably RTF. Also what does cq stand for? Thanks for the fast replies.
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Old 01-19-2014, 06:02 PM   #7
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Any wwII fighter is generally a poor choice as a first plane, but with help you can do fine.

Fighters are designed for maneuverability. Trainers are designed for stability. A more stable aircraft helps deal with the beginner's tendency to overcontrol.

Reduce control throw a little (move the pushrod connection out one hole at the control surfaces or in one hole at the servo) and be careful. Keep airspeed up. The Corsair has some particularly bad characteristics when it stalls.
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Old 01-19-2014, 06:04 PM   #8
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cg stnds for center of gravity.
It is where the plane should balance with all the gear (radio, batteries) in it.

If it's out of balance, it won't fly right.

Helicopters don't really fly.......
They're just so ugly, that the earth repels them.
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Old 01-19-2014, 06:04 PM   #9
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venter of gravity.

get a foamie.they can be glued togetherback million times.

slow stock prop reversal. it flies! easily! 543 watt dual motor bipe slow stick. push-me-pull-you. 242 watt 3 channel slow stick. 365 watt mini ultra stick. 415 watt mini contender. 810 watt ultra stick .25e. 220 watt alpha 450 sport (retired).
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Old 01-19-2014, 06:26 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by mudbeast2 View Post
Very good point. What would be a good trainer at a fair price? Preferably RTF. Also what does cq stand for? Thanks for the fast replies.
As many have stated, a good highwing trainer will provide more confidence early on....rather than spending alot of time looking at the ground for parts and pieces of what was once a nice low wing war bird.....also remember, although you are familiar with electronics related to your ground and pound rc......a decent TX/RX system for flight will take away most of the issues you'll wonder about when odd things like lack of control, power/signal loss, the ability to fine tune trims and throttle response creep up on you while getting the flight basics down pat......!....you really want to have as much confidence in your equipment in the begining as your pilot skills increase confidence....

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Old 01-19-2014, 06:53 PM   #11
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Thank you all for the advise. I am going to order a delta ray. Found it on amazon & can get a second battery & a spare set of props. The Corsair will be shelved until I figure this out. The delta ray has a lot of great features for beginners.
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Old 01-19-2014, 07:10 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by mudbeast2 View Post
...What would be a good trainer at a fair price? Preferably RTF. ...
Here's another subject I should make a copy/paste text I can use in the future!

I think it depends mostly on 3 things:

1) Will an experienced RC pilot be assisting you? This is huge. They can check the plane over for the things they've learned already, and make the first flight to get it checked out and trimmed to fly straight. Might even be able to buddy box with you if you both have the right equipment. With this kind of help, it's less scary to start with a bigger plane, which will handle the wind better, and be more stable and easy to see.

2) How big of an area do you have to fly in? Pretty obvious. This will decide how big of a plane you can get. Also a paved or grass runway can have an effect. Some planes don't deal with grass well, some are easier to hand launch than others, etc.

3) Budget. How much can or are you willing to spend? If only a little, there are planes like the HobbyZone Champ. Inexpensive, stable flyer, good for small areas, but can't handle much wind, and the tx will not be of much use for anything else. Then there's the HZ SuperCub, a little larger so it needs a little more area, but can handle a bit of wind. There's also the planes with new trainer technology, SAFE. I like it because it can be set 3 ways. Total beginner, limiting pitch and bank and the plane self leveling when you release the controls. Intermediate, allowing more pitch and bank, not actively self leveling. And Expert mode, with no limiting. (The SuperCub has ACT, Anti Crash Technology, but it's old and has been named things like Active Crash Tech. Probably best to disable it.) There's the HZ Delta Ray, which is actually a little cheaper than the SuperCub. Probably can fly in a similar area to the SuperCub, maybe smaller. Then there's the E-Flite ApprenticeS. $100 more than the others, but made to last. It has a brushless motor, and while it's not a computer tx, it can be used with other planes, or you can keep it as a buddy box if you stick to Spektrum or JR when you get a computer tx.

Sorry, I know I sound like a HZ representative! But I believe a lot in you get what you pay for. There are those that say their stuff is way overpriced, but in my experience, your best chance of getting a plane that works right out of the box is with them, and spares are available. I have planes from Nitroplanes and Hobbyking, and they all needed some TLC to get working right. In one case, an aileron servo fell out of the wing while I was taxi testing in the back yard! There are definitely other decent trainers out there, but the ones I mentioned are my top choices. The Flyzone Sensei is similar to the Apprentice, probably just fine. It doesn't have SAFE though. Go through these and other forums, and some planes will stand out.

Also, probably more than other things in life, there are many ways to approach this. There are those that believe the best way to learn is to build your own flat foamie plane so you'll learn about many things you wouldn't with a RTF plane. I agree there's truth to that, but not everyone is a tinkerer or has a place or time to build something.

Whew! OK, my fingers are tired and I got honeydos to get done. Good luck with your decision!

Edit: LOL! I typed so long you beat me to it! Good choice.
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Old 01-19-2014, 07:14 PM   #13
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you can get a horizon champ on e-bay for 40 to 50 bucks great little plane to start with. a spektrumdx6i is an affordable transmitter(can hold up to 10 planes in its memory) the nice thing about a high wing is if or should I say when you get into trouble, just let go of the sticks it will right itself also join the AMA.
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:47 AM   #14
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Could you guys recommend a longer run time battery for the Delta Ray?
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:53 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by mudbeast2 View Post
Hey guys,
I'm Lou and I have been building and playing with RC trucks, cars & rock crawlers off and on for the past 25 years. I stumbled across nitroplane.com & saw electric warbirds. Well after playing with a flight simulator I ordered a 800mm Corsair RTF. I already have the lipo charger so I figured what the heck. I am wondering if I'm over my head? I read a lot and the all recommend trainers but they don't look cool! Any advise & comments are welcome. I look forward to being part of your forum.
Absolutely look up a local flying club in your area. If you don't know of one, the American Modeling Association (AMA) has a list of most of the RC clubs in the USA.
http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx

The odds of someone being able to fly their model for the very first time without crashing it is slim to none. You do have a decent background with the Flight Simulator, and with the RC trucks that will help a great deal.

These local clubs usually have an instructor with a second transmitter and trainer cord that allows the instructor to take off, and transfer control to the student. If the student gets into trouble, the instructor takes over, and all is good.

This can cut the cost of first learning how to fly very substantially.

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Old 01-20-2014, 04:58 AM   #16
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I wouldn't worry about longer run times yet. Just get a couple of extra batteries instead. You'll need to land once in a while to scratch an itch, remove the bug that flew in your ear, whatever. From the stuff I've been reading, it has an 8-10 minute flight time. That's good already. When you get to the warbirds and edf's, it'll be more like 3-5 minutes. Plus it'll make you learn landing. I see so many people who can fly around OK, but the landings are pretty scary. For some even the takeoffs are!

And make sure to set a timer on your watch or smartphone or something. Land before low voltage cutoff to save your batteries. Have you used lipo's with the cars? A lot of beginners just fly until the motor cuts out then 'land'.
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Old 01-20-2014, 12:45 PM   #17
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Default New guy with a new plane

First off thanks for all the advise. I do use lipos in my trucks. I'm hoping my balancing boards will fit these new battery's. I am considering changing the connection to a Traxxas style connection so I can use my lipo charger vs the car charger they supple with the kit.


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Old 01-20-2014, 11:07 PM   #18
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Here are some resources for you. Note that you have some experience that will help you. Hopefully you are already used to driving toward you so control reversal will be less of a problem.

Where you will have problems is that you are used to working in two dimensions. Aircraft work in 3 dimensions. And, if you get messed up or confused while flying a plane you can't just come to a stop and take a breather, you have to keep flying.

Also cars don't rotate around their front to rear centerlines during turns, at least not by design. Aircraft have to roll to turn.

Warbirds, by design are unstable. As a result we don't recommend warbirds as starter planes.

Think along the line of what a warbird pilot might have flown when he was learning to fly. It wasn't a warbird. It might have been a piper cub or something like that.


How large is your flying area?

Do you have the patience to wait for calm weather to learn to fly?



Six Keys to Success for New Pilots
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:18 AM   #19
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Default I second the vote for the Super Cub

Although it sounds like you've committed to the Delta Ray.

Also I wouldn't worry about the run times. 10 mins is a long time in the air. My longest flight was 20 mins continuous. It takes a lot of focus though your car experience may help.

Flying more, crashing less. Feels great!

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Old 01-21-2014, 02:09 PM   #20
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Likewise with 10 minutes being plenty of flight time for a new pilot and many very experienced pilots set up their planes for 10 minutes or less.

Who goes for longer flights?

Glider pilots - 1 hour plus is possible on fairly small batteries
Aerial photography - often based on e-gliders

But for most pilots, 10 minutes is plenty. Better to land, swap, put on charger, go back in the air. Remember that bigger battery = more weight and weight is the enemy of airplanes under most conditions.

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Old 01-22-2014, 01:18 AM   #21
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I am still trying to not crash at the 10 minute mark.

Takeoffs are optional.

All landings are mandatory !!
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:21 AM   #22
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I like the Super Cub best.

You DO need to relearn how long you can fly the batteries without running them down too low.

Easy to do when a plane is far away on first flights.

Rich
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