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Batteries & Chargers Discuss Li-P, Li-Ion, NiMh, Nicad battery technology and the chargers that juice 'em up!

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Old 04-01-2014, 11:05 AM   #1
JFonseca
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Default Which new battery for my Honda CRF?

Hi,

I have been arround electric flight for some years now - since the first Ikarus ECO Piccolo helicopter, which had a fantastic 90seg autonomy with NiMH!

Even though I fly electric for a few years, I don't now much about the theme - I'm only an user.

I would like your help to solve a non-RC problem. I have a Honda CRF 450X motorcycle, which has a 6A 12V lead battery that I want to replace (Yuasa YTZ7S).


The original battery specs:
Voltage: 12
Capacity: 6
Dimensions: 4.4375" x 2.75" x 4.125"
Weight: 4.6 lbs.
Metric Dimensions: 113mm x 70mm x 105mm
Metric Weight: 2.1 kg
Polarity:
Acid Volume: N/A
Amps: 0.6
C.C.A.: 130


The battery should be light, resistent to shock, powerful, not ignite in contact with water and capable of being charged by the original system.

I was thinking about o use 6 packs of these:

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...iver_Pack.html


1- Do you think it can be charged without problem with the original system?
2- Do you have a better alternative?


Thanks for your help,
JFonseca
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:34 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by JFonseca View Post
Hi,

I have been arround electric flight for some years now - since the first Ikarus ECO Piccolo helicopter, which had a fantastic 90seg autonomy with NiMH!

Even though I fly electric for a few years, I don't now much about the theme - I'm only an user.

I would like your help to solve a non-RC problem. I have a Honda CRF 450X motorcycle, which has a 6A 12V lead battery that I want to replace (Yuasa YTZ7S).


The original battery specs:
Voltage: 12
Capacity: 6
Dimensions: 4.4375" x 2.75" x 4.125"
Weight: 4.6 lbs.
Metric Dimensions: 113mm x 70mm x 105mm
Metric Weight: 2.1 kg
Polarity:
Acid Volume: N/A
Amps: 0.6
C.C.A.: 130


The battery should be light, resistent to shock, powerful, not ignite in contact with water and capable of being charged by the original system.

I was thinking about o use 6 packs of these:

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...iver_Pack.html


1- Do you think it can be charged without problem with the original system?
2- Do you have a better alternative?


Thanks for your help,
JFonseca
Hi, The Motorcycles Charging System is not designed to Charge Ni-MH Batteries, also the Ni-MH battery packs cannot deliver enough amps to start the engine with the electric starter, Good idea, but no go, use the original lead acid or a gel cell battery designed for you Bike, and that will keep you out of Electrical Problems, Take care and have fun, Chellie

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:39 AM   #3
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or you might want to use a lithium battery, but they are big bucks

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WPS-Featherw...-/181362472546


I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:31 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
or you might want to use a lithium battery, but they are big bucks

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WPS-Featherw...-/181362472546
I have seen those batteries, but I am really afraid of the fire hazard. Everyone has heard stories about planes and cars (not RC) which catch fire due to lithium batteries problems.

This battery needs to cope with the hard conditions of enduro riding: dust, moisture, vibrations and big impacts (not to the battery itself but to the motorcycle)

Thanks anyway,
JFonseca
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:05 PM   #5
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Then buy the stock one?

slow stock prop reversal. it flies! easily! 543 watt dual motor bipe slow stick. push-me-pull-you. 242 watt 3 channel slow stick. 365 watt mini ultra stick. 415 watt mini contender. 810 watt ultra stick .25e. 220 watt alpha 450 sport (retired).
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:20 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by hayofstacks View Post
Then buy the stock one?

With the NiMH battery I would have 0,9Kg (vs 2,1Kg) and 6,9Ah (vs 6Ah)
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:40 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by JFonseca View Post
With the NiMH battery I would have 0,9Kg (vs 2,1Kg) and 6,9Ah (vs 6Ah)

Yup
With the Nih battery, you will have 0.9 Kg, a Honda Lead acid battery type charger circuit that will burn up the Nih battery (and maybe even the charger in your Honda) and a battery that will run your lights, but may not turn over the engine!

Those A123 cells, and some of those LiPo battery packs could easily do the job. Problem is, these cells absolutely have to have individual cell balancing circuitry, or they will have a short life. That would call for four series, four parallel connections of A123 cells for about 8 Amp hours. And a cost of $200, not counting the required balancing circuitry.

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Old 04-01-2014, 07:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Yup
With the Nih battery, you will have 0.9 Kg, a Honda Lead acid battery type charger circuit that will burn up the Nih battery (and maybe even the charger in your Honda) and a battery that will run your lights, but may not turn over the engine!

Those A123 cells, and some of those LiPo battery packs could easily do the job. Problem is, these cells absolutely have to have individual cell balancing circuitry, or they will have a short life. That would call for four series, four parallel connections of A123 cells for about 8 Amp hours. And a cost of $200, not counting the required balancing circuitry.
Thanks for the reply.

It would be too easy to be true

So, no NiMH, no A123 (cost issue) and I have been left with only 2 options:
- OEM lead battery
- Lipo battery

Because of all the stories I have been told, and some incidents I have seen at my club, I am very afraid of using Lipos in my motorcycle. But there's some battery brands which state that they are safe, like WPS:

WPS featherweight:
Lithium Ion Polymer technology
All components are designed, manufactured, assembled and packed in one location assuring high quality and consistency
Extremely lightweight, 50% to 70% lighter than standard batteries
Built-in LED test gauge
Increased cranking amps over lead acid batteries
Fast recharge, can be brought up to 90% charge in within 6 minutes
Easily 6 to 12 times more cycle life compared to lead acid batteries
Long shelf life, up to 1 year before requiring recharging
Can be mounted in any position
No hazardous acid or heavy metals, non-explosive and noncombustible
No shipping restrictions!
More precise fitments compared to other brands of lithium batteries
1 Year warranty
Dimensions 6in. x 7/16in. x 3 11/16in.
C.C.A. 145

What do you think about their claims? Would you put it under you in a motorcycle?

JFonseca
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:48 AM   #9
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Myself, i would not use a lipo battery in my Bike, i would use a gel cell, they dont loose water so you dont have to keep filling them up and they are tough.

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:22 AM   #10
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On a bike, i wouldn't bother with either. I've had lead acid batteries last for 8 years, abd walmart cheepies have a 3 year warranty. if the lithium is so much better, then why only a one year warranty?

I wouldn't be worried about the capacity or chemistry of the battery, but i doubt you would get anymore life out of it, and it certantly wouldn't be cost effective. i seriously doubt its worth the cost, or hassle.

and this is coming from a guy that converted his automatic car to a manual for a job.

slow stock prop reversal. it flies! easily! 543 watt dual motor bipe slow stick. push-me-pull-you. 242 watt 3 channel slow stick. 365 watt mini ultra stick. 415 watt mini contender. 810 watt ultra stick .25e. 220 watt alpha 450 sport (retired).
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