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Delta & Flying Wings Discuss electric powered delta (flying wing) style aircraft here.

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Old 05-22-2014, 06:12 AM   #1
Fishbonez
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Default Hobby King Radjet 800 with modification

Ok I have not seen much of a thread on this plane so I thought I might start one.
After reading another thread and talking about the fact the Stryker is no longer available and wanting a good replacement, I let Dahawk talk me into buying one of these with some modifications to hopefully "speed it up" So if its a complete failure blame Dahawk. LOL just kidding Hawk...
So here goes:
First of all, I thought I had purchased the Kit version of this plane but I must of mistakenly bought the PNP, so if you plan to do mods to this plane I recommend the kit version so you don't have to carve it up like I had to.
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...otor_ARF_.html

My plan is to replace the ESC, motor, prop and a 3 axis flight stabalizer from hobby king with the following:
Motor: Hobby king 2200KV motor
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...ner_Motor.html

ESC: Phoenix Edge Lite 50 Amp ESC (yes expensive but programmable and easy to convert to 4s or bigger if you choose)
http://www.castlecreations.com/produ...edge-lite.html

Prop: 6x6
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...-f-27q-PKZ5603

Battery: 2100-2200 MAH battery
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...-THP21003SPP25
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...3-EFLB22003S30
(again expensive but they are what I have)

Gyro: 3-axis stabilizer http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store..._Receiver.html

So first came the unboxing and I was pleasantly surprised at how well it was packed. I was also surprised that it to came with a manual (turns out is has a lot of pictures but lacked info)
Next I began the soldering process. What a pain, it always is but has to be done.
Then I began to replace the motor and ESC. To do this I had to cut two sections of the fuselage. One was right above the motor to access the motor mount and the second was right above the ESC. I kept the original motor mount and the motor lined up perfectly for the motor replacement . Glued motor back in and added the ESC.
Then the difficult part began, getting the stabilizer setup was a royal, time consuming pain in the azz, and I had to carve out some foam to get the stabilizer into the fuselage. Now I know you would think just switch the gyro switch to delta and activate the stabilizer switch to aux 1 and away you go. Yea not so much. I am not sure of the exact setup by the manual (I did not get one with the stabilizer) but after a lot of trial and error, this is what I did to get it all working:
1) set up radio for elevons and ensure ailerons are functioning properly
2) on the flaps setup ensure norm/Flap is 100% and all others is 0%
3) on the stabilizer keep all switches in the off position except for the last one closer to the pins is in the ON or up position
Finally I finished putting on the wings and glued hatches up.
Last but not least balancing the plane now the CG was never officially posted and their a lot of opinions are where it should be so I SWAGed it. I balanced mine just in front of the throw holes and after adding 28oz of weight in the tail I think I have it.
So there you have it the Radjet 800. I am hoping to maiden this weekend but weather here has been unpredictable her in the Ole Wyo so we shall see Hope to have a video to show

Edit: As mentioned in a lower post by Wildflyer, when setting up the 3-axis stabilizer be sure to leave the transmitter setting for wingtype as normal and on the stabilizer turn delta ON

Here is my Watt settings for this setup

1/2 Throttle
10.3 Amps
102.3 Watts

Full Throttle
26.5 Amps
282 Watts


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Old 05-22-2014, 06:43 AM   #2
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With that receiver/stabilizer HK recommends to set the switch to elevons and leave the transmitter in normal mode.

That is the way I have a 100 mph Stryker setup. It flys like it is on a tight wire in the sky.
Don't turn up the gain past the 50% mark or your plane might start an aileron wiggle that is extremely fast, luckily I was able to cut power, before the plane came apart.

I have over 800 watts available so I don't know how fast it will go. I used about 500 to go 100 mph.

Please let us know how your plane flew, I am looking at the Radjet, to see how fast I can push a flying wing.

Dave R, Proud PGR rider.
When you have flying skills like mine,
You become a master at repair.
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Old 05-22-2014, 06:48 AM   #3
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Hi Fish Cut down your 6x6 prop to a 5x6 prop, or your might draw way to many amps for the motor to handle, you might even want to try a 4 cell with a 5x4 or 5x5 or 4.75 x 4.75 apc prop. check your amp draw with a wattmeter, Take care and have fun, Chellie

D2826-6 2200kv Outrunner Motor

Specs:
Rpm/V: 2200kv
Shaft: 3.17mm
Voltage: 2S~3S (7.4v to 11.1v)
Weight: 50g
Watts: 342w
Max Current: 34A
ESC: 40A
Suggested Prop: 7x4(2S) ~ 5x5 (3S)
Mounting Hole Bolt Circle: 16mm or 19mm

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Old 05-22-2014, 07:03 AM   #4
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You might want to try this 600 Watt, 48 amp 4300 kv motor on 3 cells with a 4.5 x 4.5 APC prop, prop pitch speed is 201 mph on 3 cells with a 4.5 x 4.5 apc prop. Check your amps with a wattmeter.

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...er_4300kv.html


B28-47-09S Brushless Inrunner 4300kv
KV: 4300
Max Current: 48A
Max Power: 600W
Idle Current: 1.9A
Resistance: 0.013Ω
Shaft: Φ3.17mm
Weight: 140g
Suggested ESC: 60A
Cell count: 2-3SLipo
Bolt holes spacing: 19mm & 16mm
Bolt thread: M3*2 & M2.5*2
Gold Connection: Φ3.5

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Old 05-22-2014, 07:10 AM   #5
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If You never flown a fun jet before, make sure you give it a lot of up when turning or it will dive like a rock

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 05-22-2014, 07:26 AM   #6
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Default Wattmeter test

Chellie,
thanks for the reminder I forgot to put in my wattmeter test results.
1/2 Throttle
10.3 Amps
102.3 Watts

Full Throttle
26.5 Amps
282 Watts

So the ESC was overkill but with a 4s setup it will still be good to go
Watts I don't know if that's good. I have a hard time wrapping that info around my head

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Old 05-22-2014, 07:28 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Wildflyer View Post
With that receiver/stabilizer HK recommends to set the switch to elevons and leave the transmitter in normal mode.
I don't know if I tried that combination. I will try tomorrow and let you all know if that works. Thanks for the heads up

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Old 05-22-2014, 07:30 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
Chellie,
thanks for the reminder I forgot to put in my wattmeter test results.
1/2 Throttle
10.3 Amps
102.3 Watts

Full Throttle
26.5 Amps
282 Watts

So the ESC was overkill but with a 4s setup it will still be good to go
Watts I don't know if that's good. I have a hard time wrapping that info around my head
dont worry about the watts, but pay attention to the amps drawn, its ok to exceed the max amperage a little for a short 5 second burst. your watts will be close to your amp draw x 10, 10.3 amps x 10 = 103 Watts, 26.5 amps x 10 = 265 Watts, as you can see, its close to what you have.

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 05-22-2014, 07:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Hi Fish Cut down your 6x6 prop to a 5x6 prop, or your might draw way to many amps for the motor to handle, you might even want to try a 4 cell with a 5x4 or 4.75 x 4.75 apc prop. check your amp draw with a wattmeter, Take care and have fun, Chellie

D2826-6 2200kv Outrunner Motor

Specs:
Rpm/V: 2200kv
Shaft: 3.17mm
Voltage: 2S~3S (7.4v to 11.1v)
Weight: 50g
Watts: 342w
Max Current: 34A
ESC: 40A
Suggested Prop: 7x4(2S) ~ 5x5 (3S)
Mounting Hole Bolt Circle: 16mm or 19mm
Thanks again Chellie. All those props were in consideration for my setup. I just so happened to have a 6x6 prop available. It goes on my Stryker Q and it happens to have a 2200 so I thought why not

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Old 05-22-2014, 07:39 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
dont worry about the watts, but pay attention to the amps drawn, its ok to exceed the max amperage a little for a short 5 second burst.
Agreed and I was actually surprised that 6x6 amps draw was as small as it was, could have almost went with a 30amp ESC, but I do believe, in this case of the ESC "more is better"
Someone once explained to me that Watts was like horse power but after some conversations with a friend I think he was wrong with that statement or I just got the idea all mixed up

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Old 05-22-2014, 08:07 AM   #11
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Max watt rating has to do with motor efficiency and overheating the windings.
(well usually its the windings that fail first... sometimes the magnets)

As long as you are in the expected operating efficiency range and have decent cooling you can push the max rated watts and be fine.
Inadequate cooling and you can't handle the watts because you'll overheat the motor.
Overload the motor and you might not be able to handle HALF rated watts... because the power is going to heat instead of turning the prop.

Any energy input that doesn't go into actually turning the prop just makes the motor get hot. If you are running 300 watts input and 85% efficiency then 45 watts is going into heat and we use SOLDERING IRONS that have less power than that... You have to get rid of the heat or you will melt/burn something.

Its generally a good idea to consider the watt rating as an operational limit not to be exceeded. Its almost impossible to run at better than rated efficiency and at max rated watts at the same time.

**********

1 HP is appx 750 watts (I forgot the exact number... ) Its an exact conversion since both measure power.

But power in is not power out... You have losses due to friction and heat generated in the windings.

If we could get 100% efficiency from gasoline you'd get almost 150 mpg from a Chevy Suburban at freeway speed.
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Old 05-22-2014, 09:47 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
Someone once explained to me that Watts was like horse power but after some conversations with a friend I think he was wrong with that statement or I just got the idea all mixed up
The 'someone' was perfectly correct. Horsepower and Watts are just two different units of measure for power, rather like miles and killometers are units of measure for distance.

1 horsepower is equal to 746 Watts.

As pointed out already by fhhubar, measuring electrical watts is only a measure of power consumed by the motor. It doesnt tell you exactly how much power is actually available to spin the prop because some of the power that goes into the motor is lost mainly in the form of heat.
When you push a motor very hard you might see a big increase in electrical power going in (e.g. measured by a wattmeter). This gets people all excited and they assume that the model will perform much better because it has 'more power', in reality often most of that extra power just goes to make the motor hot and not much gets through to the prop.
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:08 AM   #13
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Fish,

I had an early version and flew it stock with a 6x4 . No problem but going to a square prop will add speed. Might even look at a 5.25 x 6.25. I use them in my little P-39. Oh yeah....

This was my first plane with any kind of real speed. Souped-up , it can haul the mail.

But read through the very long thread over on RCG about some of the hop-ups including a 6S setup. Holey smokes ! I'm talking 150 mph. Lots of youtubes out there.

An Aussie named Rattlesnake is one of the top mod guys: http://youtu.be/tNkZqLZW2w0 4S setup.

There is a syndrome with this plane called the " uncontrollalbe death spiral" Never happened to me but there's been a lot of discussion about it. Get into to a stall and it's curtains.

Let us know your thoughts on this plane. I'm sure its been improved since its debut a few years ago. Mine took quite a beating including spending the night at the top of 40ft. tree.

Best of luck !

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Old 05-23-2014, 05:28 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Wildflyer View Post
With that receiver/stabilizer HK recommends to set the switch to elevons and leave the transmitter in normal mode.
Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
I don't know if I tried that combination. I will try tomorrow and let you all know if that works. Thanks for the heads up
Wildflyer was absolutely correct and I shall up date the OP so no one screws it up
Thanks Wf

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Old 05-23-2014, 05:42 AM   #15
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Hawk
she does look like a fun plane. looking forward to the maiden. It was supposed to rain for the past two days with hail but like all good weatherman they were wrong and weather was perfect for flying and I had other plans so hopefully weather will be good this memorial day weekend

I cant believe people are putting 6s on this but your right they are. I did notice something however. Some of the olks who have hopped this thing ip beyond belief I have noticed they don't show too many video =s other than one so...Im guessing here but one flight?

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Old 05-23-2014, 06:08 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
You might want to try this 600 Watt, 48 amp 4300 kv motor on 3 cells with a 4.5 x 4.5 APC prop, prop pitch speed is 201 mph on 3 cells with a 4.5 x 4.5 apc prop. Check your amps with a wattmeter.

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...er_4300kv.html
Chellie,
that's great advice a 4300 should make it a bullet and very light. I may order one of those motors when I make my next HK order

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Old 05-23-2014, 02:11 PM   #17
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Gees, I fly a stock one and it's fast. You guys gotta have better reflex's and eyes than me, stock it's hard to keep it in sight at full power.
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:13 PM   #18
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Sometimes it's fun to push the limits. Especially when you
Feel the need, the need for speed ! Lol
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:19 AM   #19
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Thumbs up maiden

Today was a great day.
All kinds of flying in today and was a perfect day for a maiden. Partly cloudy with wind out of the south at about 5-10 mph. In Ole Wyo. it don't get better than that and I will have to say the rad jet flew like the weather excellent. Maiden video is still in the works and be available hopefully soon. I had WyomingOutdoors hand toss her for me in case of torque roll. Torque roll what torque roll took off like a champ and a nice easy rise to the sky. The radjet quickly gets to speed in no time and with the 2200KV and 6x6 prop she really gets moving. The initial maiden was so smooth and fairly quick , guessing maybe 80mph, it was like it was on rails. Had no need to use the 3-axis stabilizer at all. 2nd flight was also fantastic and exactly the same as before. I did hit the stabilizer and found it to fly a little more anemic and sluggish and quickly shut her off. No need for it, however I am going to keep it on and test it again in some stronger winds. Overall a great plane at a great price. I think its a winner. I think I will look through my spare props and things and see if I can find a prop closer to what Chellie suggested and maybe get a couple more MPH out o her but for now no complaints. Again I will post the video ASAP

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Old 05-25-2014, 06:14 AM   #20
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Congrats on the Maiden Flight Fish Glad everything worked out great for you Yes, We Need Video Take care and have fun, Chellie

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 05-25-2014, 08:38 AM   #21
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Smile As promised

A Video of the maiden

YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

Happy flying may your crashes be limited and if they are not limited let them be cool.
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:07 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
A Video of the maiden
Nice flight and Video I dont think anyone could could wipe that silly grin off your face with a 2x4 after you landed LOL, Great Job, Take care and have fun, Chellie

P/S Try a 4 cell with a 5x5 APC prop, I want to get you into the 100 MPH Club

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 05-26-2014, 03:58 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Nice flight and Video I dont think anyone could could wipe that silly grin off your face with a 2x4 after you landed LOL, Great Job, Take care and have fun, Chellie

P/S Try a 4 cell with a 5x5 APC prop, I want to get you into the 100 MPH Club
I admit I am considering that. Just unsure what MAH to go with. Don't want to make it a flying brick. At the moment by the numbers she does not go fast but it seems it has a lot f thrust I will have to read up on ow to get an accurate thrust measurement. Trying to balance speed and thrust can be difficult.

I had a mild crash today because I wanted to see how well the plane glided. I admit I made a stupid mistake by putting it in a glide going downwind. Not smart, it did not glide well. After returning throttle it got about 1/4 mile away from me and while making my turn to return I lost orientation and did not realize the plane was coming towards me so I zigged when I should of zagged and down she went. Little bit of boiling water and some hot glue and she is as good as new.

Happy flying may your crashes be limited and if they are not limited let them be cool.
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Old 05-26-2014, 07:11 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
I admit I am considering that. Just unsure what MAH to go with. Don't want to make it a flying brick. At the moment by the numbers she does not go fast but it seems it has a lot f thrust I will have to read up on ow to get an accurate thrust measurement. Trying to balance speed and thrust can be difficult.

I had a mild crash today because I wanted to see how well the plane glided. I admit I made a stupid mistake by putting it in a glide going downwind. Not smart, it did not glide well. After returning throttle it got about 1/4 mile away from me and while making my turn to return I lost orientation and did not realize the plane was coming towards me so I zigged when I should of zagged and down she went. Little bit of boiling water and some hot glue and she is as good as new.
I Used a 2500mah 4 cell in my Funjet to go 103 MPH, you may even want to try a 5x6 prop with 4 cells, I would try the the 5x5 first.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26852

NAME: CHELLIE
SPEED: 103.00 MPH
PLANE: Funjet
MOTOR: 2845 HXT 2700kv
ESC: 80 Amp Turnigy
BATTERY: 4 cell LoongMax 2500mah 30C
PROP: 5x5 APC

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 05-26-2014, 07:25 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
I admit I am considering that. Just unsure what MAH to go with. Don't want to make it a flying brick. At the moment by the numbers she does not go fast but it seems it has a lot f thrust I will have to read up on ow to get an accurate thrust measurement. Trying to balance speed and thrust can be difficult.

I had a mild crash today because I wanted to see how well the plane glided. I admit I made a stupid mistake by putting it in a glide going downwind. Not smart, it did not glide well. After returning throttle it got about 1/4 mile away from me and while making my turn to return I lost orientation and did not realize the plane was coming towards me so I zigged when I should of zagged and down she went. Little bit of boiling water and some hot glue and she is as good as new.
with Hi Speed sleek planes, a lot of thrust is not needed, what is needed is prop pitch speed, dont worry to much about the thrust right now, just get the numbers on the prop pitch speed.

http://www.pgam.ca/airspeed.htm

4 cell lipo 14.8 Volts x 2200kv = 32560 RPM + prop pitch 5 = 154 MPH, Minus - voltage drop and drag, about 25% so about 115 MPH , using a 4 cell with a 5x5 prop, should get you into the 100MPH club, just use a short 5 second WOT burst out of a Dive

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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