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Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

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Old 07-06-2017, 07:02 PM   #1
raphael.cintra
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Default BaeHawk 90mm EDF - 1st

Hey there pilots/friends!

I want please a piece of advice from the most experience friends/pilots...i consider myself a experience RC pilot (5 years of hobby) with prop planes (several nitro and gs planes, from 5kg single engine up to 25kg multi engine aircrafts, such as warbirds, scale aircrafts, sport, Acros and etc) but im total new at JET/EDF world (only some few passes with friends foamies).

Some days ago i got my first one (in fact, was a exchange with some of my prop planes), a BaeHawk 90mm composite EDF (1100 wingspan + flaps+retracts) with some pretty decent electronics on it (YEP 90amp ESC + Jet Power 12 blades Al + 1750KV i think + GensAce 6s 60C 5000 lipo.)...as usual, im very excited to put it on the air (like all our new planes), but before i want to please receive some recommendations regarding the EDF flight in general and if possible some specific characteristics related to this model. As far as i noted/can imagine, the wing loading should be high in this one and i must say that is not exactly the best 1st model (maybe a Habu or a Viper should be better) but was the available option.

I noted 8S setup is the common choice for most of the people i talked to but in my case (for several reasons) i can only use/have at disposal a brand new (never used) GensAce 6s 60C 5000mah Lipo (wich i consider i good performance batery)...this Hawk i bought (from a friend that purchased from HK i think) have a "decent" electronic on it (ESC Yep 90Amps + Jet Power 12 Al blades + 1750Kv motor).

I think the weight x thrust is enough to fly it (i dont see lack of power) in a "standard" way...away from crazy maneuvers and excelent perfomance like a 8 or 12S of course, but enought for a safe or enjoyble flight (i quite new on EDF)...what you guys please think about it?

Thank you all for this support! i really apreciate.


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Old 07-06-2017, 07:28 PM   #2
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Before you fly - test the thrust level.

Easy way ... get a digital scale and place model nose on the scale, read the weight ... then zero the weight ... run up motor to full and read the scale again. It only needs a few secs to get the reading.

Or stand model level on wheels and a line to the model fixed to a fishing weight scale ... run up model to full to see what scale says ...

Why ? If most people are using 8S ... there's a reason ... and your 6S may not be quite enough.
I would not fly an EDF unless I have at least 0.7 to 1 thrust to weight. I prefer 1 : 1 ... but that's pushing power.

EDF's do not have prop wash ... so many need to be flown off ground / landed a few mph more than a prop job.... especially when fitted with all the retracts etc.

Nice model ...

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222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
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Old 07-06-2017, 07:41 PM   #3
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Dear Nigel,

Thank you very much for your reply!

I was wondering how to measure the thrust, you came with a simple and good idea about the digital scale + nose down + full tht! Ill do it. Also i totally agree with you about min 0,7 x 1 ratio.

Regarding the 6S x 8S subject, the manufacturer specified 6S...i keep thinking with such small wing area, a 8S pack will add a lot of wing loading as well.

specs
Wingspan = 114 cm = 46 ''
Length = 122 cm = 49 ''
Wing area = 24 dm^2 = 372 sq in
Est. weight rtf 7.2 - 8.0 lbs



Thanks!

Happy flights for you.
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:13 PM   #4
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I fly edf's almost 100% of the time now. 90's, 80's, 70's, 64' and 50's.
What's the total weight of this plane? 1100mm is not a huge WS but about average. In general, the smaller the edf, the more challenging. I mean in terms of twitchiness and tucking action. Fiberglass is nice but not very forgiving if you prang it. Much more difficult to repair. If you're used to boat repairs . Fiberglass is will be your friend.

I recommend getting an inexpensive foam edf like the 80mm Freewing F-86 or the 70mm Rebel or go for my personal favorite, the Freewing 64mm 4S F/A-18. RC Castle and Motion rc both sell them. I'm talking under $300.00. The FA-18 is about USD $125.00.

Look at getting a 3 axis stabilizer like the Hobby Eagle A3L. I have them in most of my smaller edf's. Only about $25 , easy to set up and will make your experience more enjoyable. E.G. My F/A-18 fly's on rails in all kinds of wind.

Nothing to master edf's. You're looking at about 3-3.5 mins of flight time. Doesn't seem like much but you're also going about twice as fast. EDF's might be a little faster than what you're used at first but all it takes is staying out in front. Nothing intimidating and not too much drama. Need speed in the turns buts that's true with most planes. It's just that some edf's will fall right out of the sky without the proper airspeed.

Good luck and welcome to the edf world !

Hawk
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:42 PM   #5
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Dear Hawk!

Superb reply...thak you very much!

Considering your experience, wich of the 3 options you gave me should i decided to, as my first edf? The Freewing 64mm 4S F/A-18 seems cheap and good looking but i get the impression to be very small thus much harder than the other two...at the same time as per my reading the fa-18 is also more forgiving at low speed wich will help a lot in the beginning...i'm right?

For the gyro i have the HobbyKing Orange RX 3-Axis i never used...i tried to once but the result was not good at all.

From your first question, my Hawk should wieght about 3,5kg ready to fly (6s 5000 pack).

Thank you for your reply and patience...im not new at rc as i mentioned and do not want to make things in the wrong way/step for new edf world for me.
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Old 07-07-2017, 12:12 AM   #6
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She's pretty heavy but my concern is that she's fiberglass. Beautiful but ....

The Orange should work fine. Do you have anyone to assist with the gyro setup ? It's nice to have a second set of eyes in setup so that it acts on the surfaces in the correct directions. I still do this. The second part is setting the gains. Start low. I adjust until any of the contral surfaces start oscillating. I do like the separate HE A3L though. It doesn't require placement at the CG point.

What Tx are you using ? Spektrum? I use the DX9 and have my rates on a 3way switch. Hug, mid and low. I also use a liberal amount of expo on mid and high rates. That's just just me.

I hand launch the F/A-18. In mine, I'm using the FMS 12 blade with a 70 amp esc. Bought the cheaper 3S version of the plane and tossed the edf and esc. Using a Roaring Top 2600mah 4S 80C. Gets me 3 minutes with mixed throttle.

Another very good choice if you want retracts and flaps is the 70mm Freewing Yak-130. It's 6S. USD $199.00 Pnp. You could go with a 6S 5000 and use it later for your bae hawk. Now comes stock with a 12 blade fan setup. I bought the arf+ and installed a XRP 2200kv 14b with 125 amp esc. Long thread over on RCG. Love this plane. Very strong like it's Soviet heritage. Plus she's red for great visibility. The stock LG is the wire type but the good news is they are cheap to replace. I fly off a fairly well kept grass field.

Took me a few flights to get dialed in but after that she became my go-to plane. Can't go wrong with that one either. I'm not using a gyro in the Yak. Very stable as is. This one would best prepare you for your fiberglass hawk.

Hawk
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Old 07-07-2017, 12:34 AM   #7
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Hawk!

I really don't know how to thank you...really.

I do help others and participe in several forums, and i know some times is time consuming and need to have patiante.

I definelty go with the red YAK (Freewing Yak-130 Red 70mm 12 Blade EDF Jet 6S PNP Version)..just great..and yes, i can use my brand new GensAce 6s 5000 60C...!!!

For the gyro i'll also purchase the "Eagle A3 Super II 3-Axis Plane Gyro With USB Adapter & CableEAGLE A3 SUPER II 3-AXIS PLANE GYRO WITH USB ADAPTER & CABLE"...is this one you talked about? If yes will be nice to pack plane+gyro together because it will save my freight cost (im outside US...far away).

I use Futaba 14sg :-)
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Old 07-07-2017, 02:27 AM   #8
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Thumbs up

Hawk,
The yak is on the way :-) ..thanks!
So 6s 5000mah will fit in this plane right? The manufacturer specifies 4000mah...hope 5000 will also fit...little concern now...
Thank you !!!!
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Old 07-07-2017, 04:17 AM   #9
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It will. No worries. You'll want to move it as far back as possible. I use both a 4000 Admiral and a 5000 Roaring Top. If you bought from MotionRC, the esc will come with an EC5 connector.
Check and see which connector they are including so you can prep the battery with the correct connector.

You'll love this plane. Fast but can fly slow with out bad stall tendencies. Great sound too . I'll check and see if I have a video. But definitely check out the thread on rc groups.

Hawk
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Old 07-07-2017, 04:27 AM   #10
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Here's a no bounce landing

https://youtu.be/9wZpHwHb-Q8

The key is to slow down and use a shallow glidepath angle.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:26 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
It will. No worries. You'll want to move it as far back as possible. I use both a 4000 Admiral and a 5000 Roaring Top. If you bought from MotionRC, the esc will come with an EC5 connector.
Check and see which connector they are including so you can prep the battery with the correct connector.

You'll love this plane. Fast but can fly slow with out bad stall tendencies. Great sound too . I'll check and see if I have a video. But definitely check out the thread on rc groups.

Hawk
Great! Thanks for the confirmation...my lipo is also EC5 so is ready!
Considering 4000 is specified, how about your flight time with a 5000 pack?
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:30 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Here's a no bounce landing

https://youtu.be/9wZpHwHb-Q8

The key is to slow down and use a shallow glidepath angle.
This was a nice flare for sure! Slow speed, negative angle of attack straight/nose down, and nice flare! Congrats.

I think you use some Expo and DR on it...

By the way, Eagle New Version A3-L Flight is also comming together...i'll give ir a try.

Thanks for the vid!
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Old 07-09-2017, 01:07 AM   #13
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The HE A3-L is the basic version and works well.(I have 1) Next model up is the A3 which has a few more features like auto hover. (I have 7)
Next model is the A3 Super-II which is even more versatile and a remote programmer is available so you can easily change your programming in the field. (I have none but set up my buddies ones)

The Orange RX 3 axis is barely OK. If you can reprogram it then it becomes an excellent little stabiliser. Much easier to adjust. (I have 4)

As DaHawk says, they make life more pleasant when flying in the wind.
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Old 07-10-2017, 02:51 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Panther View Post
The HE A3-L is the basic version and works well.(I have 1) Next model up is the A3 which has a few more features like auto hover. (I have 7)
Next model is the A3 Super-II which is even more versatile and a remote programmer is available so you can easily change your programming in the field. (I have none but set up my buddies ones)

The Orange RX 3 axis is barely OK. If you can reprogram it then it becomes an excellent little stabiliser. Much easier to adjust. (I have 4)

As DaHawk says, they make life more pleasant when flying in the wind.
Hey there Panther good afternoon!
Thank you very much for the reply.
I had on past experience with gyro (Orange) and must confess was not exacly good...very hard to fine tune the gains, in th end, i dindt feelt it gave me a great help on the flight...so, i just took off from the plane (im sure was a configuration isse from my side).
Ill give a try with the A3-L...lets see...the problem will be find room to place on the plane CG (example the YAK) but...lets see how it goes.
Safe flights!
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:43 PM   #15
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Don't forget, you can place the A3-L on its' edge if you haven't got a lot of room. Just program it for that. If you can use the S-Bus feature then you can reduce the number of wires required as well.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:31 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Panther View Post
Don't forget, you can place the A3-L on its' edge if you haven't got a lot of room. Just program it for that. If you can use the S-Bus feature then you can reduce the number of wires required as well.
Perfect!
Tnx for the advice.
I keep you posted about the results.
Safe flights!
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Old Yesterday, 11:25 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
She's pretty heavy but my concern is that she's fiberglass. Beautiful but ....

The Orange should work fine. Do you have anyone to assist with the gyro setup ? It's nice to have a second set of eyes in setup so that it acts on the surfaces in the correct directions. I still do this. The second part is setting the gains. Start low. I adjust until any of the contral surfaces start oscillating. I do like the separate HE A3L though. It doesn't require placement at the CG point.

What Tx are you using ? Spektrum? I use the DX9 and have my rates on a 3way switch. Hug, mid and low. I also use a liberal amount of expo on mid and high rates. That's just just me.

I hand launch the F/A-18. In mine, I'm using the FMS 12 blade with a 70 amp esc. Bought the cheaper 3S version of the plane and tossed the edf and esc. Using a Roaring Top 2600mah 4S 80C. Gets me 3 minutes with mixed throttle.

Another very good choice if you want retracts and flaps is the 70mm Freewing Yak-130. It's 6S. USD $199.00 Pnp. You could go with a 6S 5000 and use it later for your bae hawk. Now comes stock with a 12 blade fan setup. I bought the arf+ and installed a XRP 2200kv 14b with 125 amp esc. Long thread over on RCG. Love this plane. Very strong like it's Soviet heritage. Plus she's red for great visibility. The stock LG is the wire type but the good news is they are cheap to replace. I fly off a fairly well kept grass field.

Took me a few flights to get dialed in but after that she became my go-to plane. Can't go wrong with that one either. I'm not using a gyro in the Yak. Very stable as is. This one would best prepare you for your fiberglass hawk.

Hawk
Good afternoon Dehawk,

Can you please tell me what throws are you using on your Yak?

I assembled and configurate mine yesterday...also i decided to sell my 6S 5000mah and purchased a 6S 3300 (my Baehawk has not enouht thrust after some tests so i'll need to upgrade the motor,fun and esc if i want to fly him in the future...too bad).

In my case i choose to have three postion on my Futaba (high - mid - low) all then with respective (Expo -40% / -30% / -20% and D/R 40% / 25% / 15%) .

In case you have some pics of your trows will be even better!

Thank you very much
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