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3D Flying Discuss everything related to "3D" flying including construction, power setups and flying techniques

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Old 01-14-2016, 12:48 PM   #51
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I picked up 2 Versions of the HE Super 2 but haven't set them up yet. One says it's for sport and the other 3d. I just got into fpv so I've been spending what little time trying to sort that out and haven't get too deep into the stab system...lazy I guess. I am assuming it needs to go between the servos and rx by using servo extensions? I hope to finish Squall project and bungee launcher this weekend and then move on to setting up the Super2. The info I am getting here is useful, thanks! -Joe
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:58 PM   #52
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Yes, it goes between the servos and the Rx but you don't need servo extensions, the HE comes with all the necessary leads.
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:01 PM   #53
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Well I do not know chit about your two RX's as I have never even heard of them. But I do know what Sport and 3D modes are suppose to mean.

Sport is just Conventional Gyro flight stabilization borrowed from the Helicopter crowd. It only dampens the effects of wind and external forces applied to the plane. It will not correct your heading or attitude, just resist changes.

3D goes beyond Conventional with Heading Gain. Not only does it dampen, but will actually try to put the plane back in the Heading and Attitude it was in before being moved. Of course for it to work you must have enough air moving across the control surface for it to work

Some examples. On a Tail Dragger like the Addiction you can do a Thumb Off take off by just punching the throttle. The plane will hold all 3 axis as it was on the ground. You get a nice perfect take off with no roll, yaw, and pitch holds a little up so you get a nice smooth accent.

On Knife Edges, roll the plane 90 degrees, pitch the nose up a little with rudder, and thumbs off the sticks except throttle to control vertical speed.

Trick is getting the gains set properly. To little gain and the plane will not hold attitude. Too much gain and/or speed and the plane oscillates. Way too much gain and you loose control and crash.

Start off Slow wiht Low gains and work your way until you just start to see Oscillations, then back it off a little.

The nice thing about the Spektrum AR636 all this can be done on each axis individually in flight. You can dial it in real quick and easy.

The only issue I have had is with faster air speeds. When you get the plane dialed in for 3D is at very low airspeeds which is fine. However if I am n 3D mode and I go fast, it Oscillates. Go to fast and it would tear the plane apart.

Fortunately the Spektrum AR636 has 3 Flight Modes. My Flight Mode 1 is No Gyros, limited throws Safe mode. FM1 has the gyros turned off. FM2 is my Sport Mode, more throws and just some Conventional Gain in the gyro and can fly full throttle. FM2 just dampens the wing and turns the wind off so to speak. FM3 is 3D with 55 degrees of Throws high Conventional and Heading gains. To use FM3 i have to slow down the plane. Makes landing a piece of cake. Just put the plane in a 45 degree Harrier, and use the Throttle to control vertical speed, and rudder to control direction. At 45 degree harrier air speed is extremely SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. You can walk along side of the plane and snatch it out of the air, or let the tail wheel gently touch down. If you got a little wind to head into, a 0 mph ground speed landing.
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:48 PM   #54
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Does the AR636 not have a 'master gain' adjustment? This is useful as a fourth flight mode as well as quickly adjusting overall gain to suit the type of flying.

I have three 'proper' modes programmed on my HobbyEagle:

1. Rate (sport) mode
2: 3D attitude locking
3. Auto Hover

I can turn the gyros off altogether by adjusting the master gain down to zero which i have set on the left slider so can be done without taking my fingers off the sticks.

But the Hobbyeagle doesnt have individual channel gain adjustable from the Tx in flight, you need to land for that.
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Old 01-14-2016, 09:31 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Does the AR636 not have a 'master gain' adjustment? This is useful as a fourth flight mode as well as quickly adjusting overall gain to suit the type of flying.
Well yes but not like you may think.

It has 3 Flight Modes which I control with a 3-position switch on the Aux Channel. You can program any mode however you want.

Within all three modes you have 2 gain settings for each axis known as Conventional and Heading gains. They are independent of each other. Then Conventional and Heading gain can be set as either Absolute or Relative.

Absolute you set with a laptop or cell phone, and once set is fixed. If you set the gain to Relative, then you can adjust it in Flight via Telemetry on the Transmitter. I use the Scroll Bar Roller on the TX to adjust gains in Relative modes.

So in effect I guess you could have 6 modes. As for me:

FM1 is just Plain Jane, no gyros, limited throws with 50% Expo. No adjustments can be made in Flight. It is my SAFE MODE.

FM2 is my Sport Mode. Conventional Gain is moderate with Absolute, and no Heading Gain. Convential Gains are moderate around 20% on each axis wiht Moderate Trows and a little more expo. I cannot adjust gain in Flight because I have it set to Absolute.

FM3 is 3D mode. Conventional gains are set to around 50% and Absolute. Heading gains are turned up to 75% Relative and I can adjust them in flight via transmitter if needed. Throws are at maximum, and Expo at 75%. However I have the plane so tuned in, I can now switch the Heading back to Absolute if I want which will mean I will not be able to adjust in Flight.

It is real flexible and once you get to using it and understand the difference between Conventional and Heading gains is pretty easy to tune in. The trick is to first get the Conventional Gains setup correctly. That is easy to do. Just set up the Conventional Gains as Realative at 100% for all three axis. Before you take off, Roll the gains back to 5% or something low like 10%. Then when in flight turn, get up to desired flight speed, turn up the gain for each axis one at a time until you get Oscillations, then roll back just until the Oscillation stops. Land, record the gains for each axis, and then set them for Absolute and they are locked in. Done

Then repeat for Heading gains which is a bit different. When heading gain is too high the oscillations are much slower, more like a Wobble and you will have difficulty controlling the plane because it will not stabilize. If set too low, the plane will not hold attitude orientation and fall off the axis. I started with Knife Edges and adjusted Yaw until I could fly thumbs off the rudder stick. Then I adjusted Roll axis in a Knife Edge by turning with the Elevator until it was completely decoupled roll. Pitch is easy, go into a hoover.

When dialed in, the plane will hold any attitude orientation you put it in assuming you have enough air flowing over the control surfaces. In a hoover you can fly it like a helicopter. Even vertical take-off and landings, no runway needed. You just have to compensate for the wind.
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:43 PM   #56
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Sounds similar in many ways to the HobbyEagle. the auto Hover in the hobby eagle is just a variation on 3D attitude hold but in Auto hover the system automatically put the model into a nose up vertical hover position.. One difference is that in auto hover you gain set the gains very high as you only ever zero airspeed.

It's got a user defined option too where you can set rate and heading hold gains as you like, but I've not even tried that option yet. The main problem I've had is getting decent enough weather to test it out, that and batteries that have been in storage for a couple of years and aren't as good as they once were.
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Old 01-15-2016, 12:38 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Sounds similar in many ways to the HobbyEagle. the auto Hover in the hobby eagle is just a variation on 3D attitude hold but in Auto hover the system automatically put the model into a nose up vertical hover position.. One difference is that in auto hover you gain set the gains very high as you only ever zero airspeed.

It's got a user defined option too where you can set rate and heading hold gains as you like, but I've not even tried that option yet. The main problem I've had is getting decent enough weather to test it out, that and batteries that have been in storage for a couple of years and aren't as good as they once were.
I don't know squat about heli's and quads, really do not want to know either. However one of our senior members at the club, Ron Moore (we call him moron) is one heck of a good 3D pilot of both planes and heli's has recently took interest in Quads/Drones and he had me help set up his new Drone and even let me fly it.

I do not recall what he called the Receiver, but it looks a lot different than any I have seen. I know it has gyros, but it also requires a small GPS antenna which is where I came in because he could not get it working right. Anyway got it working and is a breeze to fly. You do not have to know anything about it. You can send the dang thing and turn off your radio, and the damn thing will come right back and land where it took off. Turn loose of the sticks, and it just hovers and holds its position in both altitude relative spot over the ground even in strong winds.

Nothing to landing it, just cut the throttle and it gently lands itself. Unless there is a malfunction, or runs into an object, is suppose to be impossible to crash as it knows where ground is and will not let you do something to hit the ground. Well the joke is it is not Moron Proof. Ron has earned his nick name Moron. He is quite wealthy, drives a huge RV with Trailer converted to take his planes around the country from large scale to micros. Really nice rig. He throws caution to the wind when he flies and has spectacular crashes with very expensive models. Does not phase him a bit to crash a $3000 plane, he has a garage full of planes sitting in boxes.

In fact to get a kid or teen to join the club, he will buy them their first plane and radio, then teach them to fly. Great guy, but not a lick of sense.
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Old 08-31-2016, 12:23 PM   #58
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since I took profit from the actual discount at Braeckman Modellbau in Germany (and the free shipment), I ordered last week an Addiction X in blue.
Especially due to the way the motor mount is designed, it was a little bit more time to build the kit (mostly having to wait for the glue to set)...all parts did fit extremely good together (except the holes for the servos Hitec 5085MG) which were a little bit too short and had to be sand). Finally it took around 10 hours to be ready for the first flight. Which took place this morning. A Little bit of aileron trim to the left...and after 5 seconds I was already flying rolling circles, hovering etc...I am extremely satisfied with my purchase and think to go for the Addiction XL soon.
Have a nice day
Jonathan
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:21 PM   #59
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I know this is an old thread but I'm hoping some of the original participants are still monitoring it.

I just finished the build on my Addiction X and noticed the very same "oddity" With the ailerons when trying to trim them. Both are dead flat but when trimmed level to the wing tips, they are both noticeably high at the wing root. Conversely, if I level them at the root, both are low at the tips. PA is on a month long break so no help from support. Searched the topic quite a bit and found this thread.

I read 2 differences of opinions in this thread as to what to do. I believe the OP got advice from PA to level at the tips but I believe someone else noted that it would be better perhaps to have the ailerons lower at the tips.

I just find this strange that this thread is several years old and more than a few people have noted this yet it's not mentioned anywhere in the manual as to the best method to trim these. Any thoughts would be appreciated

"There are 2 types of pilots.....those that have crashed and those that will....."
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:27 AM   #60
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Try it both ways and see which you prefer.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:30 PM   #61
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I tried levelling mine at the roots and at the tips and she flies well in either case. I now have mine in a mid position and am happy with the way she flies. The Addiction x is a brilliant model. It's a great model to practice all your manoeuvres on as it flies quite slow and is very forgiving if you get it wrong. I taught myself to do slow rolling harriers without too much trouble. If you set yours up with large throws on the controls you will probably suffer with control shake at neutral on the ground but it doesn't happen in flight. Happy Flying.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:47 PM   #62
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As i probably said earlier in the thread.. This must indicate that either the ailerons or the wings have a warp in them. This is not a deliberate 'design feature'. I dont have the addiction but i do have the PA Ultimate AMR and one of it's wings was similarly warped, plus the fuselage bad a bad twist in it too. The wings are pretty easy to untwist, the fuselage took more work but i got there in the end.

As Squidger said, with it being a slow flying plane it will probably fly 'ok' even with twists in the wings/ailerons, but personally i couldn't accept that sort of imperfection. Even if it has no immediately obvious effect on flight it would annoy the heck out of me!

To be fair to PA they highlight the risk of warps in their lightweight surfaces at various places in the manual. They detail how to check for and correct for warps of the exact type you are seeing, they specifically state that the ailerons should be correctly aligned at both root and at the tip and they detail how to correct it if it's not. Here are the extracts from my Ultimate AMR manual, I assume the Addiction has the same wording:

and


Only thing i'd add to this is it's not so 'unlikely', it's almost a certainty!
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:35 PM   #63
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I have an Addiction X and had the same problem. Either your wings or fuselage are warped. Real easy to fix with a Heat Gun and a good eye.

Really does not matter much how you align the ailerons. Depends on what you want out of it. Do you want it to Float or Less Float. The Addiction X is made to do Post Stall maneuvers at 0 to very little airspeed. Will not do well with extreme maneuvers like Tumbles.
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:42 PM   #64
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Can anyone tell me the size of the bullet connectors on the thrust 40?

Thank you!
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Old 03-10-2017, 01:15 PM   #65
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the size for the connector son the T40 is 3.5 mm
Rgds
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:41 AM   #66
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Thanks!
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