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Hi-Performance and Sailplanes RC hotliners, electric pylon racers, F5B, F5D, sailplanes and gliders

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Old 03-04-2013, 07:38 PM   #101
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It's looking good. If you are worried about putting MonoKote on rounded surfaces, just remember to pull on the covering while ironing it down. That will take the wrinkles out and it will stretch a little as it goes over the round sections. The harder you pull the more it will stretch until it just breaks off. You know of have to develop a feel for that, but it is not hard to learn. Makes for a nice smooth covering job.

As for your wing, I always cover it in two pieces, but that is just me. If you iron it down good, it should not lift again. I do the tips first then the inner section, but that is just the way I cover. You can do it either way. When you do that final shrink, be careful or you will bend in a warp. I do one rib bay on top and then do the bay on the bottom before i move on to the next bay. I also hold the wing down flat while shrinking it on top so it do esnot warp as much and take that twist our when you do the bottom on each bay. It is much easier to get a good straight wing that way. Never do the entire bottom or top and then go to the next side. That is a very easy way to make a twist in the panel and harder to get out.

You may want to put some stripes on the bottom of the wing to make it a little easier to see. I do on mine and it really helps to tell what it is doing.

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Old 03-08-2013, 03:07 AM   #102
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i am really looking forward to finishing the bot ,it been fun and tonight i went down to sand filler i put on the wings and sand the wing root ribs for fitting close together when rubber banded to the fuse.when before i realized it,the next thing to happen was the first of 2 wing sections covered. i must say i am very pleased with the final look of the wing but will of coarse have some finishing touches with the iron and glove to smooth out a few areas. that said,it took a lot of heating with the gun to get the monocoat to shrink evenly and not cause a warped wing. i really need to find an easier covering to use on my next build. sadly ,i did have a burn hole [3] and the patches are invisible for the most part as the holes were small. it will be even harder to find when i do some trim sheet work for establishing a pattern. i would love to use a large vinyl decal,but my thoughts are they will add to much weight and not shrink well for future tightening of the covering.

should have the second half of the wing done Friday night. then final fitting and locking pc's down for flight. lot of finish work and still want to throw some stripes on the wing.

one thing is for certain,i'll never build another 118 inch wing in my shop again...lol...,theres no room to swing the wing when together and a million things to hit while working on it. my workshop is very small.


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Old 03-08-2013, 04:28 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by stuart View Post
i am really looking forward to finishing the bot ,it been fun and tonight i went down to sand filler i put on the wings and sand the wing root ribs for fitting close together when rubber banded to the fuse.when before i realized it,the next thing to happen was the first of 2 wing sections covered. i must say i am very pleased with the final look of the wing but will of coarse have some finishing touches with the iron and glove to smooth out a few areas. that said,it took a lot of heating with the gun to get the monocoat to shrink evenly and not cause a warped wing. i really need to find an easier covering to use on my next build. sadly ,i did have a burn hole [3] and the patches are invisible for the most part as the holes were small. it will be even harder to find when i do some trim sheet work for establishing a pattern. i would love to use a large vinyl decal,but my thoughts are they will add to much weight and not shrink well for future tightening of the covering.

should have the second half of the wing done Friday night. then final fitting and locking pc's down for flight. lot of finish work and still want to throw some stripes on the wing.

one thing is for certain,i'll never build another 118 inch wing in my shop again...lol...,theres no room to swing the wing when together and a million things to hit while working on it. my workshop is very small.

I find it is much easier to shrink the covering using an iron and sock to protect the MonoKote from scratches. Using the iron, you can set the temp to shrink it a little at a time and stop when the wrinkles are out. That way you still have more shrink if you need it later. Also, MonoKote is about the strongest covering on the market. Having said all that, I still don't like it much. If you heat the covering with a heat gun like you are doing, you can't control the temp very well and it is pretty easy to melt holes in it if you are not super careful, but I think you already found that out. Using the iron you can watch the shrink and just make it enough to get wrinkles out, not melt holes.

When putting trim on, I like to mist thinner on so the backing on the covering is activated when you put the trim on. When it dries, the trim is really stuck down good. Just make sure you get all the thinner out and get it as smooth as you can while it is still wet. Let it sit overnight and it should be good to go with no shrinking or very little. I use a piece of balsa to smooth it out and get all the bubbles and thinner out from under that trim. Round the edge over and you can use an old "T" shirt over the end to keep it from scratching the covering.

It's looking good and I think you will love the way it flies. It's not just the building room that makes for hangar rash, but just about everything gets in the way. I think everything attacks that wing when you are not looking.
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:48 AM   #104
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todays progress was pretty good,covered the second half of the wing.it came out best covered part of all thanks to Ed's suggestion to shrink using the iron and sock first.

Ed,i don't remember when i got the heat gun,but for some reason i was convinced it did the fastest,best shrinking work I'd ever seen since before getting it i used the iron only. today is a new day for me!!! from now on I'll be using the iron/sock way more ,and the covering of monocoat using more heat....no burn throughs today.very nice!! then i went over the whole BOT and tightened things up where the heat gun failed. now heres pictures of the finished work so far.

i also took your advise ed and added stripes on the bottom of the wing,will need to pu more trim sheeting to do the other side.

total UAW is 65oz.....but i still haven't cut in the spoilers and will take the BOT outside to assemble it and check the cg. there isn't any room to move electics around as the pictures show all components in place. 60oz is what the bot should be as per design and i fly windy conditions so added weight for penetration shouldn't be a big deal. i could always go with a smaller battery since power is short burst only. heres a few pictures and I'll post more Sunday when she's assembled outside where theres room. note:i went to remove the" bird of time " name on top of the wing but the trim sheeting was going to leave glue and color so i left it on. i guess it's ok, but i decided i didn't want yellow on the topside if the bottom has stripes that look similar,i should have used the heat to remove it the first time but thought it would peal off without it...wrong!! i don't want to beat the covering up trying to remove it now. life goes on.


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Old 03-10-2013, 01:17 AM   #105
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A heat gun will make the covering job go faster, but there are two things I don't much care for about them. 1.) The covering temp cannot be controlled and it will use up all the shrink if you are not VERY careful. 2.) While it is fast, it also melts a hole fast and without warning. Using the iron, I can control the shrink by adjusting the temp and if I need to shrink it more later, I still have some shrink left. I never get the iron so hot that I use up all the shrink on the first pass, unless I have a stubborn wrinkle that just does not want to come out.

I don't see anything wrong with the Bird Of Time on the wing. I think it looks good. I especially like your eagle on the rudder. That is one cool looking bird. Both the Eagle and the glider. If you get it up very high the whole thing will look black, but they all do.

One thing I would watch is that battery and bolt. If you have a hard landing and that bolt punches a hole in the battery, you will have a flaming mess real quick. I would put a hard foam over that bolt to keep it from punching a hole in the battery.

It looks great. I hope it flies as good as it looks. I am really looking forward to the first flight. After seeing yours, I have the urge to get me a kit. I have been wanting one for a long time and after seeing yours, I have that feeling again to run out and buy the kit. Don't much care for the ARF version. I just like to build my own and the way kits are going away, it may not be around much longer.

Ed
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:24 AM   #106
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Looks great Stuart!!

I think I need a signature.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:55 AM   #107
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thanks my friends,i still have a bunch of tghtening to do along with cutting those bolt off. i was loading it up as is just to get the auw.

i wouldn't be suprised if heating the monocoat i didn't use up a lot of the shrink during the first application. i can always recover it but for now i'm very happy with the way it turned out. this tuesday we have a club meeting and it's going to be bring your winter projects night. i have the BOT,and also do to a t-shirt printing machine at the rehab facility i work with handicaped adults,i'll have a new club t-shirt to show the club .it was designed by another member and i can get them made with shirt and all for $5each.

should be fun.






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Old 03-12-2013, 03:14 AM   #108
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all 100%. ready to take to the meeting. theres 3 $25 gift certificates to a local hobby shop for the best 3 winter projects brought to the meeting. i don't expect to win but I'll have plenty of room to step back and get pictures...lol.

i tightened everything up and went for getting cg set...i had to add 32 grams of weight in the nose and this was holding the wing around a fingers tip back of the spar [toward te]....not real happy as the electric version seems to have caused issues i wish I'd known more about. the nose area should have been extended several inch's pushing everything forward. nothing to do now but give it a go and see how she flys. it's going to be a fast flier and this will make for many turns searching out thermals. i read the thread on the djareotech and should have considered doing the same to the bot.

alas...the build part of the bot is finished and except for a hopeful video to follow ,the thread is complete. thanks to all who offered suggestion. it was very helpful. thanks go out to Larry and Ed for following along and being there for my questions,you guys are what wattflyer's about.

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Old 03-12-2013, 03:35 AM   #109
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If you only added 32 grams to the nose to get to the recommended CG, then I would worry more that you may have to add weight to the tail to get a "good" cg

Seriously, the recommended CG is way forward of the best CG for soaring.

Good luck on the maiden!

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Old 03-12-2013, 04:41 AM   #110
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Stuart

Thanks for the thread!
Enjoyed it! Good luck on
the maiden & the 25 bucks!

Regards
Jimmy
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:02 PM   #111
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stuart;

If that 32g gets you right on the CG called for on the plans, then you are going to be nose heave and you will be taking that back out to get the CG right for flying. I have NEVER had one come out right according to the plans CG. Mine always went back and on a couple, it went back quite a bit. Just play with the CG when you start flying and remove a little weight at a time and you may find that you need to add tail weight. Once you get that BOT trimmed out right and flying the way it should, I think you will love it. The only problem I ever found with a BOT was the float in ground effect and not being easy to land on the spot like you can using spoilers or flaps. I think you will find that putting spoilers on a BOT is the best thing that ever happened to it and is more then worth the extra time to put them on. Good luck and have a ball.

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Old 03-14-2013, 06:36 PM   #112
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hi ed and Larry,like i posted above,I'm locating the set cg approx 1/2 inch off the spar toward the trailing edge. the recommended cg to start with is on the spar.

the way i placed the lead will be very easy to remove using a drill bit a little at a time till she glides right.

at the club meeting there were 5 or 6 models displayed,the club hadn't figured on a voting system so a builder with a sae5 balsa usa build that wasn't finished but was beautiful withdrew from the comp. i liked that idea and wasn't feeling well,so i also withdrew. made giving the gift certificates to the other builders easy.besides,i liked their builds better than mine.

i have some nice full length pictures to show but i need to down load off my phone.

this was tuesday...as far as not feeling well,i have AFIB heart rate and am going on my 3rd day at hackensack hospital trying to get my heart rate back to normal. today had a internal ultra sound to detect blood clots in the heart. there are some and using shock to restore rhythm to the beats can't be used at this time. looks like new meds for a bum ticker are on order and should be going home Friday. i was feeling heart palpations at the meeting but ignored them........very dumb and stubborn to not call 911 and go to a hospital 30miles away from home,but i have all my doctors at hackensack hospital, the really good one I'm at now.

so to releave bordom i'll surf the net ,type at the forums and can't wait to blow this taco stand and get some real food!

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Old 03-14-2013, 10:02 PM   #113
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Sorry to hear about your heart problems. Hope you get better real fast. Yea, it wasn't real bright not taking care of your heart when you first noticed it. A very good friend of mine did that a few years ago and died on the way home. He said it was just a few skips of the heart, nothing to worry about. Well, for sure he doesn't have anything to worry about now. Take care of it right and things will be fine.

On that CG, I guess I missed that. I hate guessing at a CG, so I always start close to the plans CG and take it from there. That way I know it will fly good on the first flight. Besides, I like seeing the improvement in flying as I move that CG back. I just get a kick out of that. So far none of my gliders have had very bad problems on the first flight, so it is easy to trim them out and get a decent first flight. My first flights are pretty short too. I just put the trim in nad then land to check everything over and then go again. BY the third flight I am moving the CG and playing around with it. By the time my CG is where I want it, I have gotten to know my glider pretty good and am getting some pretty good flights out of it.

My present glider is a 2M Chrysalis and it is flying fantastic. I have gotten almost an hour out of it, but haven't quite been able to break that wall down yet. 58 minuets is the best I have gotten out of it so far. Just can't seem to break that 1 hour mark, but not for lack of trying. Take care and have a ball. You only go around once in life, so you may as well have some fun doing it.

Ed
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:46 AM   #114
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Stuart,

Sorry to hear that you "landed" in the hospital. Hopefully you will "glide" on home soon. Your BOT is looking good. I am hoping my Chrysalis gives me many hours of relaxing flying this suumer. Hopefully your BOT will do the same for you. That's always been the best medicine for me. Quiet flying at dusk..

Steve

(I also took my Chrysalis to the club meeting on Tue, but no contests in ours)

Growing the fleet!
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:00 AM   #115
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Hang in there Stuart! Those docs are getting pretty good at fixing tickers these days

Once you're back home, a little relaxed flying will be the best medicine you could get

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:36 AM   #116
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it's been on off again rain and sunshine today,so i went down into the building cave and continued programing planes into the new TX[hitec eclipse 7 2.4].

i am now able to hold 16 model memory and the bird of time is #11. the optic 6 i was using held 8 models and the bot just wasn't one of them.

here's the thing.....i set the horizontals/elevator halves in place and there is some play in the brass tubes/piano wire mounted in the vertical fin that takes the piano wire that joins the elevator halve. is this normalif not,how should i remove this wobble when the elevator halves are in place the whole assembly and be jiggled . here are a few pictures if this helps. if i hold the fuse like the picture shows and spin it side to side,the elevator feel a little loose.

hopefully someone has built this kit and can tell me if this is normal play and flying won't be affected. thanks,stu


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Old 09-05-2013, 02:15 PM   #117
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I like to get my controls tight as I can get them with no slop. You can put tape on the rods to get that slop out or any number of ways to do it. I don't like my controls moving in any direction unless I tell them to. I also like using digital servos if I can to keep them centered good and to give me good control over the surfaces. May be going a little over board, but I just like it that way. You could also add solder to that wire and sand it down to get a nice tight fit there. Solder is soft, so it may not last long, but it is at least a start. You could also look around and see if you can find a piece of wire that fits tighter in that tubing so there is less slop. Wires vary in size even if they are listed as the same, so you can change a loose fitting one for one that fits better. You could also put a small crimp in that piece of tubing to make it tighter. Just make it a little egg shaped.

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Old 09-06-2013, 01:21 AM   #118
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thanks ed,i may also try a little spray paint as suggested by someone over at rcg. i'm also wondering how much of a bend is required to join the halves for flight. i want them to be secure for sure,but don't know what shape bend will work best....a slight curvy bend,a "v"bend ...or what ever is used by most.

someone said theres a glue/sticky wax to be put on the piano wire that holds well and releases easy enough.

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Old 09-06-2013, 03:22 AM   #119
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I put a slight "V" bend in mine with just enough bend to help hold it in place and mine has never come out in flight. It doesn't take very much, so go easy on the bending. I bent my front one since it is the thinnest one and it is just a slight bend. Just enough to notice and makes you bend it back a little to put the stab on for flight. I have also heard of people putting set screws on to hold it together, but I didn't bother with that.

Paint would work pretty good too, since it will make a tighter fit and hold it on by friction. Don't know how long it will last since I have never done that, but then the paint is something you can always put more on if you need it.

I have also heard of people gluing it on, but I don't like that idea much as it makes it rather hard to get off again. I like to take mine off to travel and keeps the stab unbroken while bouncing around in the back of my car.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:45 PM   #120
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Just found this thread, ended rather abruptly. Very informative thread, interested to know how the story ended. I am doing this build this winter.

Thanks
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:46 AM   #121
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my story......well,like many planes i build i put flying first ...i put off the finale decisions for attaching the tail horizontal/elevator so i could just enjoy flying other birds now. i have the skimmer 600 sailplane that went to the field several times this year. in fact i really don't feel pressured to maiden the bot just now as i set different priorities depending on the season. i never build during the warm weather months ,so repairs,kit completions are waiting for the big chill.

i pulled the Rx from the bot to put on a night flying plane thats on the table now and will be used this fall i hope as it gets dark early now. i will have to p/u another 3 pack of hitec 6channel rxs and will revive this thread next spring or summer when i do the maiden.

this winters projects in order are the 3d yg3d plane with strings of leds,the edge540t repairing the fuse and recovering it,but most looking forward to covering the greatplanes RV 4-40 and powering it up with a eflite power60 on 7cells. that i started last winter and stopped when spring arrived.

Graham, have a great time building the bot,it's a very straight forward build and a lot of fun.


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narrow is the place to land...wide is the space to crash....choose the narrow way!
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:07 AM   #122
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Thanks very much for your quick reply, I can see that your "dance card" is pretty full. Glad to hear the story did not end for other reasons. I plan on building an e-version as well. Looking forward to your maiden flight and comments.

Graham

PS: I thought the "big chill" was only up here in the "Great White North"
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:58 PM   #123
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"NCC-1701"? Is that your A.C.A. member number, 'Captain'?

Nice bird, I especially like the eagle on the tail!

"Give a man a plane and he'll fly for a day.
Teach a man to build a plane and he'll fly for a lifetime"
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:21 AM   #124
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thanks for the comp flywheel,now i'm begining to feel guilty i didn't maiden her this summer.

i even finished my project for night flying......but its getting dark around 5pm and is dark at 5:30. i get home from work at 5,really need to practice the evening flying into the dark.

also need to p/u 3 more rx's to outfit planes fit for flying.


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narrow is the place to land...wide is the space to crash....choose the narrow way!
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:09 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by tobydogs View Post
todays progress was pretty good,covered the second half of the wing.it came out best covered part of all thanks to Ed's suggestion to shrink using the iron and sock first.

Ed,i don't remember when i got the heat gun,but for some reason i was convinced it did the fastest,best shrinking work I'd ever seen since before getting it i used the iron only. today is a new day for me!!! from now on I'll be using the iron/sock way more ,and the covering of monocoat using more heat....no burn throughs today.very nice!! then i went over the whole BOT and tightened things up where the heat gun failed. now heres pictures of the finished work so far.

i also took your advise ed and added stripes on the bottom of the wing,will need to pu more trim sheeting to do the other side.

total UAW is 65oz.....but i still haven't cut in the spoilers and will take the BOT outside to assemble it and check the cg. there isn't any room to move electics around as the pictures show all components in place. 60oz is what the bot should be as per design and i fly windy conditions so added weight for penetration shouldn't be a big deal. i could always go with a smaller battery since power is short burst only. heres a few pictures and I'll post more Sunday when she's assembled outside where theres room. note:i went to remove the" bird of time " name on top of the wing but the trim sheeting was going to leave glue and color so i left it on. i guess it's ok, but i decided i didn't want yellow on the topside if the bottom has stripes that look similar,i should have used the heat to remove it the first time but thought it would peal off without it...wrong!! i don't want to beat the covering up trying to remove it now. life goes on.
Hi stu, I have just been reading your build thread on the BOT, I am starting to do one my self , how did you end up fixing the two halfs of the wings together , and have you any photos of that , thanks dave.
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