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Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

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Old 04-04-2014, 03:05 PM   #126
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Default Baseline Understanding "REQUIRED"

I want to take a moment and remind readers 3D printers print solid geometry. CAD art is not all created
equally. You have solid geometry images which can be printed and a skin most often found in online
gaming. The later has no X, Y, Z (left~right, up~down, and a "depth~thickness".

Most of the time CNC milling and printing uses a file format know as "G" code to control a contact point
or apex location within the device's functional service zone. As more and more CAD standardized on
output or file conversion formats .STL became of of the most popular default file format for "contoller boards"
directing the device to function in X,Y, Z.

As a baseline, CAD software most likely to be used by a hobbist vs. an industrial user will have two types
of files. (1) maximum height point cloud positions and (2) minimum height point cloud positions with "straight
connecting lines between each.

Because to-be-printed ~ milled object drawings are comprised of polygons (non-equal sided shapes) they
result in sharp pointed end points. Polygon composed shapes comprise a virtual space called a "point cloud"

Imagine each shape has a reptillian surface virtually the same as this:



Not exactly the intended final result of milling...



So, before you GLAZE over, around, and past this post you MUST understand only 3 dim Solid Geometry
can drive a CNC device like a printer or mill.

Is the above definition correct? Can an .STL
be milled - printed? Explain



Nature's Point Cloud

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Old 04-13-2014, 11:34 PM   #127
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Default Casting Materials

Exactly the opposite of what I expected was experienced Saturday. I went looking for sulphur free modeling clay. First stop was
at Michael's Crafts where I found there to be "0" declaration of whether the clay was or was not sulphur free. I have to use the
sulphur free to permit RTV silicone rubber molding compound to cure properly.

Walked all over the store finding additional molding materials, but nothing with an MSD sheet or statement leading me to think any
of the clays were sulphur free. They had Clear Cast...remember casting a chess set way back when?

I drove across town to Texas Art Supply where I found "Smooth On 3000" Liquid Plastic, "Smooth On OOMOO 30" Liquid Rubber
and an aerisol can of mold release....but no sulphur free modeling clay, according to their employees. Anywho, I am on the
hunt to gett'r done this week.



Great News... I received an email from Narve Jensen, VP of the FAI CIAM Bureau confirming the 2016 World Scale Championship
for FAI F4C and F4J was awarded to the Rumanian Modeling Federation who will host the event in Ploiesti, Rumania.



Found the proper clay. Held it in my hands trying to read the printed data on package... White Plastalina Modeling Clay is a
pigmented oil based compound that is great for sculptors, animators and artists of all ages. The modeling clay has a smooth
consistency and is self adhereing, non toxic, never hardens and remains permanently pliable. The colors are intermixable. It is
compatible with silicone mold compounds and contains no sulfur.
The modeling clay has a melting point of 65 degrees
Celsius or 150 degrees Fahrenheit.

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Old 04-19-2014, 06:51 PM   #128
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Default Mak'n Beacon...Today.



The standard foam test milling is being done at this time. Will have images from Fort Worth as they progress.

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Old 05-04-2014, 06:35 PM   #129
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Default Sculey III Clay

Interrupted for a couple of weeks....

I revisited Michael's, one with lots of employees eagerly asking if they could assist.
Wow, a refreshing difference

I was introduced to an art teacher working for extra pecos. It turns out on my iniital
inquiry I was misdirected to an incorrect section of their store (different location).
This time, three aisles away I was shocked to see 100 or more
clear packaged modeling clays displayed by brand and typical use.

I sought a smaller packaging unit for my first go at this.



Sculpey III is the exact product I was looking for. Packaged in 2oz. clear plastic,
color: white.

While the intended use of Sculpey III is to be baked in an oven after sculpting to
form a hard object, my use is to form a fillet between the head and the interior
to seal "out" the RTV molding compound.

Now to lower Lyle's ears.....


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Old 05-08-2014, 01:22 AM   #130
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Default

Dick Reynolds sent me a 1/8th CAD helmet drawing. Earlier this week he sent photos of a figure
he is using for crew members and a pair of CNC printed helmets. Could not tell if they were
extruded or composited with a laser. Now that I have the proper clay I will continue with making
my helmet mold shortly.

I will be moving my existing high detailed goggles and oxy masks to my resin helmets. Will always
be able to mold the goggles and mask at any time later. Time is the one thing I am trying to make
up since our CAD set back.

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Old 05-09-2014, 03:10 AM   #131
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Default Rough Pass Initial Result.

Initial test mill results are decent. The inboard nacelle inlet and landing light bezel appear upside down
below. There are two subsequent surface passes called finish cuts. One at right angles to the rough cut,
the second at 45 degrees to the second finish cut. These result in a smooth surface void of tool scaring.








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Old 05-30-2014, 08:29 PM   #132
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Default Today Is A Good Day !

Scratch building is a birthing process:

5% pleasurable gathering of documentation.
80% pain in the ars coordinating the spin of the universe.
15% return to pleasurable assembly and mechanical configuration.

D'foam....D'foam....D'foam....Yes Tatu! We have CNC'd 2# density test milled Styrene on its way
this afternoon to arrive either tomorrow or Monday.

Javier sent these a few minutes ago.








Gotta love that inboard nacelle rear fluting That was the most difficult shape to loft correctly in CAD.
Dick had a devil of a time getting that angle just right. Between my analog cross sections and photos it
finally filled in as it needed to be.



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Old 05-30-2014, 10:27 PM   #133
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Default But Does It All Fit In There...?

Well at this point it is what it is as we test fit everything that goes in our inboard and outboard nacelles.

Below is the inboard nacelle transparency showing the removable pylon blade onto which everything related
to this project sucking itself across the skyis attached. Then again some might say that about it now...


Note the fan is not centered in the bifurcated inlet. Me thinks this matters not as the two inlets are hot
wired to the inlet perimeter of the Dynamax to provide as straight forward an air path as possible to the
blade faces.

Dynamax's mounting tangs are bolted to the carbon fiber reinforced removable pylon blade. You will see
each of the pylon mounted components as we move forward. The primary concern was mounting the
inboard nacelle outrigger retracts. With them rotating to the flat face down should relieve the issue.


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Old 06-01-2014, 01:54 AM   #134
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Default

I just wanted to say THANK YOU for continuing to post this. Though work and children have been the priority of my time for the past couple years, I've also been trying to get back into building. B-47's have long been an interest, which brought me to this post.

Right before all my time was accounted for, I made the decision to move all my models into two scales (for a few reasons). I've been considering building a 1/12th WB-47. It would definitely be more "fun" scale than your amazing effort detailed here. I was amazed and pleased when I came across this thread to see so much information collected so neatly!

I look forward to seeing more!

As an aside, for anyone else looking for sulfur-free clay, I've always had good luck finding it at local teacher supply stores. Normally it comes in 25 pound bricks. The ones near me carry several varieties of clay.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:59 AM   #135
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Default 1/12th Inspiration

Glad to know we have been a source of inspiration. I am curious as to how you decided your B-47 should be
1:12 in size? What is your anticipated AUW? Things will more or less appear to be in short hand compared to
previous posts. Monday I will post more detailed nacelle images as I validate everything fits inside inboard &
outboard.

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Old 06-01-2014, 03:42 AM   #136
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Well, after getting frustrated with always having to hunt down pilots, I've settled on two scales that my planes will be in. 1/5th for fighters and the like (as I have two already) and 1/12 for larger/multi engine aircraft as it was in the middle of a few sizes. I've got a list of planes I want to build in my lifetime and that scale split the difference between most of them.

It keeps me focused but also where I am working up vac-formed positionable (until they are glued in position) figures, I wanted to reuse my work across multiple aircraft.

There also hovers in the back of my mind an unlikely future where i have both time and money where I could also augment my aircraft with scale vehicles (we do public shows at our field and library).

I like everything in-scale to boot. I always was irritated that some aircraft I had waited on the model release for, only to find out it was in some oddball scale to accommodate for size.

Regarding AUW, I'm aiming for 20lbs. Right now I am in the design stage of an F-86D in 1/12th. Ideally this should be a quick build (by the end of the summer). I got a box of ducted fans recently and wanted to do something with them and also have been wanting to try a building approach where retracts are anchored on a ply framework just large enough for landing gear and electronics, then place the foam on top (laminated wing), unitizing the whole thing with .5oz fiberglass. I won't bore you with the whole deal, but if it works out for this one, my intent would be to use the same philosophy on the B-47 (and others on the list).

I've been a fan of Keith Sparks and his thought that small shouldn't mean a lack of detail and function. I've really been wanting to stretch myself creatively when it comes to building and just try some techniques out. 1/12th also bites less deeply in my wallet and allows for failure.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:05 PM   #137
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Default 1/12th B-47

Admirable you desire to build a #20 1/12th B-47. I would like to know more about your edf
choice and number you plan to use. There are two other B-47 being constructed in addition
to the two we are building.

One in Seattle, doesn't look like flight will be in its future any time soon.

The other is in Norfolk and yet to become a construction thread though it is well on its way
with its CNC milled fuselage plug milled and a CNC milled wing pending.

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Old 06-01-2014, 04:07 PM   #138
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Laminated white foam core, unitized construction ( it will fit on my trailer nose/tail width wise). 4 70mm hoffman ducted fans. I'd like to stay with 8s for weight, but it depends on weight ahaha.
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:05 AM   #139
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Ah, 1/12 scale is a good choice. Easy to remember and easy to covert full scale values (feet) to model scale vales (inches).

In regards to a 1/12 scale flight crew, the Mattel Batman series Dark Knight Rises, Commissioner Gordon and Penny Worth and the Ghostbusters are exactly 1/12 scale and are fully articulated.

Ed, while Newport News is a nice place, I live in Norfolk!

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Old 06-04-2014, 01:59 AM   #140
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Nice! Thanks for the tips! I'm going to print some 3D bucks for molding, but the idea I've got... which may fail.. is to vac form them, separated at the joints. I can then glue them in place in a cockpit. Further, I have a friend who does more professional level paper dolls and such that I've talked to about making paper clothing that could be printed on thin paper and applied to the small HIPS figures for use as different pilots, crew, ground personnel, etc...

Sorry to derail.
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Old 06-04-2014, 02:28 AM   #141
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Default

Edited the CAD files to permit a wee bit more meat between interior and exterior. Its going to be two weeks
before Sam is ready to mill the changes. Will post the new dim an data with images of each item shortly.

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Old 06-06-2014, 07:29 PM   #142
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Default Dim Damn Dims...

I know everyone is asking themselves how someone working with CAD can get 4 1/2 years downstream to conduct an
audit? Would certainly seem by now all the wrinkles and quirks would be worked out! Ha! Ha!

Answer: Remember we started all this with a series of 1:144th scale drawings then progressed to 1/72nd or so as we
smurged all line art to determine which of all those available (9) was the most accurate. Then I found Englishman Chris
Davey's fantastic multiple view B-47 line art.

Why is Chris Davey's line art wonderful? It provided to be the most accurate compared to our and Dick Reynold's hands
on physical measurement of the remaining 1:1 B-47's and comparison to photos. Satisfied Chris's drawings were more
accurate than any other I tracked Chris down in England and purchased the original B-47 art work commissioned by the
English Newsprint Rag..."Aviation News" 12-25 September. 1980 issue as their large format center-fold.

Here's the G-cut code CNC Mill images completed thus far.

We have achieved the following:

1. Test milled inboard nacelle (sans pylon)
A. Corrected geometry consequence of too few polygons
B. Physical dim: 30.6456" long, 10.9481 wide, 7.5000 tall



We have achieved the following fuselage result:

3. Final Fuselage CADCAM Slice & Dice (sans Nav/Bmb Station) forward of STA 316.5000
A. Post edit polygon count 30k+. (*AR-STEP-STL format path)
B. Physical dim: 28.9224" long, 13.2777" wide, 14.8038" tall





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Old 06-07-2014, 08:58 PM   #143
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Default Outboard Nacelle & Pylon CNC CAD Images

I call the outboard pylon a row boat because of its broad beam shape. Its broad to distribute the load of mounting across
a wide area. This virtually eliminates lateral movement while making space for the 90mm outboard EDF. Note: Dims on the
three components are that of the 1:1 until we mill the inboard nacelle and know the exact inlet diameter.



The pylon is attached to the wing bottom with a central receiver for the short pylon blade embedded in the outboard nacelle.
This permits removal of all EDF nacelle for maintenance instead of laying on our back trying to work on it...trying the key word.



You can easily see the surfaces are much smoother than shown originally. This is the result of the tools in my virtual
toolbox after all this time. Oh if we knew back then what we have learned during this process...well, we will soon be
able to say how much productivity is gained with these tools.



Note, I left a reminant of the hypersonic cone which sits in the inlet. What you see is how far back the face of the EDF sits.
The dim shown in the left side of the CNC mill software screen is that of the 1:1 full size B-47. Dick Reynold's 1:1 gathering
of dims served to be an excellent audit tool during my editing and adjustment of each component.

Without Dick's extensive measurement of the 1:1 it would have been impossible to have erected more than what Hasegawa
discloses in and on the surface of its plastic model. Most of us would consider that enough, yet here I find attachments are
an integral strength component for our evolving design. I kidded Dick of being OCD during his visits to the B-47 survivors. It
turns out in the end, Dick's desire to create a flying museum replica contributed way more than I realized.

Next task, increase polygon count of the cockpit CAD then print the components with our UP3D printer.


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Old 06-15-2014, 01:19 AM   #144
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Default

Whew ! ! !

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Old 06-21-2014, 11:28 PM   #145
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Default On A Diet...

Working with the inboard nacelle blade... Whitl'n it down caz I need to shed some weight.


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Old 06-21-2014, 11:42 PM   #146
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Default NEED TO FIND HONEY COMB AKA HexCel Board ! ! !

I am looking for honey comb aka hexcel board. Its hiding from me. This is not hexcell cloth, it is a hex board. In the full size
world this is used to build area without adding a great deal of mass.

I need to adhere a pair of them to form each of eight nacelle blades with carbon veil sandwiched 'tween...

Looking for additional eyes to find....





Polypropylene (PP) Plascore Board is good as well. Good flat sheer strength. Great pricing at $26 per 2' x 4' blank.
2'x4' weighs 3# @ 1/2 inch thickness. This may well be our best bet once it is laminated with C/F veil.

Practical use specs:

Honeycomb Core and Plascore Board™ for Boat Building Plascore's commitment to the marine industry is evident in our wide
range of honeycomb cores, Plascore Board and assemblies engineered to meet the unique demands of naval architects and
design and manufacturing engineers. From high performance off-shore racers to the recreational runabout, Plascore honey-
comb marine composite products offer superior strength-to-weight ratios, toughness, moisture and corrosion resistance for
even the most demanding applications.

These critical qualities are desirable for hulls, decks, bulkheads, stringers, bunks, covers, hatches and more. Low density
options matched with superior mechanical properties make Plascore marine honeycomb core products more desirable than
traditional balsa and foam products. Providing high strength and stiffness characteristics during normal loading conditions,
the shear failure mode of the honeycomb allows it to continue to function after its yield strength has been exceeded.

Unlike some competitive core materials, immediate loss of function does not occur. Whether you need high performance
Nomex® , Kevlar®, Aluminum or the popular, user-friendly PP Honeycomb, Plascore can provide the honeycomb solution
that delivers maximum performance and value for your application.


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Old 06-23-2014, 05:45 PM   #147
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Default Been meaning to ask...

Great work as usual Ed, but I've been meaning to ask for quite some time now.....no intention to derail the thread, but could you post just one photo of a previous completed project, regardless of subject choice. I'm really curious about your "flite Metal" covering, and how it looks on a completed model.
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:17 PM   #148
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Clicking on the margin Flite-Metal will open it to all connections...go down and click on
the "homepage" link it will take you to somethng like 70 examples of models covered
in Flite-Metal with individual photographic focuses.

Its been around for 16 years with winning results in sanctioned scale contents worldwide.

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Old 06-24-2014, 05:41 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Flite-Metal View Post
Clicking on the margin Flite-Metal will open it to all connections...go down and click on
the "homepage" link it will take you to somethng like 70 examples of models covered
in Flite-Metal with individual photographic focuses.

Its been around for 16 years with winning results in sanctioned scale contents worldwide.
Thanks for the info Ed I had a look at some of the planes and they are quite impressive. Maybe I'll cover my He 178 in it when it I eventually get it finished
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:24 PM   #150
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There is a sample pak available which depending on a potential customer's project is ample for witnessing the benefits of
Flite-Metal to achieve what ever it is that they desire to replicate. Did you have an opportunity to view the animated
application how-to? Click here to view the recommended method of application.

What is the scale of your He-178? No more than I see it needs would cost virtually nothing to use. 1 FK1210 is all I can
imagine it requiring...unless a giant scale project.


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