A123 battries in planes???

[Crash Test Dummy]

They look like they would be very heavy at 2.5oz. per cell..........but if you flew them in bigger planes it wouldnt be as much as an issue. Has anybody here flown these?? Looks like they can dump lots of current, and who here wouldn't like to get 1000 cycles out of thrie batteries??

http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/cells.html

CTD

[Foamiesrfun]

Originally Posted by Crash Test Dummy

They look like they would be very heavy at 2.5oz. per cell..........but if you flew them in bigger planes it wouldnt be as much as an issue. Has anybody here flown these?? Looks like they can dump lots of current, and who here wouldn't like to get 1000 cycles out of thrie batteries??

http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/cells.html

CTD

There Great! in anything that can handle the weight. We have a old Sky volt its a sports plane electric has a Cobalt motor in it we have had it since the early 90's we tryed a 4 cell pack in it and it flys Unbelivable.

We Use to have to have 10 or 12 cell nicads to fly it and that way to much weight. two 1320 pro lites do weight less but flying it you cant tell a driffrence really, and the lipos we use cost like more and you dont get as many flights out of them.

Here is a 1 minute video of it taking off and flying around.
http://s64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...t=CLIP0005.flv

[Red Scholefield]

Originally Posted by Crash Test Dummy

They look like they would be very heavy at 2.5oz. per cell..........but if you flew them in bigger planes it wouldnt be as much as an issue. Has anybody here flown these?? Looks like they can dump lots of current, and who here wouldn't like to get 1000 cycles out of thrie batteries??

http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/cells.html

CTD

They are working great for me in 3 40 size conversions. 37 flights and no sign of capacity degradation. It will take a long long time to verify the 1000 cycles - that equates to about 90 galons of glow fuel.

[admin]

We tried a set in the eflite airliner as a replacement to the lipo set. test was around 5000 of altitude (denver area) and would barely hold level flight at full throttle. Have not tested it in the airliner yet at sea level. The extra weight and lower voltage (leading to lower motor rpm) seemed to make the higher altitude test show one place where the application of these packs would not work well.

I have packs here and hope to test my airliner here at sea level to see if it fares any better.

[Crash Test Dummy]

Thanks for the replys guys,

Whare are you guys getting these cells and how much are they? I was thinking a 40 size might be good for these cells if they can dump AMPs like they claim. can I charge them with my Triton......I would think so.

CTD

[Red Scholefield]

Originally Posted by admin

We tried a set in the eflite airliner as a replacement to the lipo set. test was around 5000 of altitude (denver area) and would barely hold level flight at full throttle. Have not tested it in the airliner yet at sea level. The extra weight and lower voltage (leading to lower motor rpm) seemed to make the higher altitude test show one place where the application of these packs would not work well.

I have packs here and hope to test my airliner here at sea level to see if it fares any better.

A123 cells being a lower voltage should be substituted for LiPo on a 4:3 ratio. If you were flying a 3S Lipo pack you would need a 4S A123. Again, these are not for SMALL planes, but rather suited to 40 size and up conversions where unlimited vertical is not a prime requisite.

[WingTips24]

Hey did a little reasearch on these cells and I am posting some of the info. I also put weights in oz next to some of the packs. The 10.8-14.4 v looks particularly interesting. Have a look here for prices and more info. link below - Tips



Introductory Price: $49.95


Hypersonic™ 2300 6.6V
2300 mAh, 6.6V, Lithium Ion, 2S1P
Dimensions: 135mm length x 28mm diameter
Weight: 155g = 5.4 oz
Output: Up to 30C continuous, 60C pulses
Max temperature: 160F/71C
Features: Balancing connector, Deans Ultra output/charge connector

Retail Price: $59.95




http://www.a123racing.com/html/hypersonic.html

[WingTips24]

Hypersonic™ 2300 9.9V



Introductory Price: $74.95


2300 mAh, 9.9V, Lithium Ion, 3S1P
Dimensions: 70mm length x 55mm width
Weight: 230g = 8.1oz
Output: Up to 30C continuous, 60C pulses
Max temperature: 160F/71C
Features: Balancing connector, Deans Ultra output/charge connector

Retail Price: $89.95

Tips

[WingTips24]

Hypersonic™ 4600 6.6V



Introductory Price: $99.95



4600 mAh, 6.6V, Lithium Ion, 2S2P
Dimensions: 135mm x 28mm x 53mm
Weight: 310g - 10.9oz
Output: Up to 30C continuous, 60C pulses
Features: Balancing connector, Deans Ultra output/charge connector

Retail Price: $119.95

Tips

[WingTips24]

Heres a pic of the charger you would need




Tips

[WingTips24]

Hypersonic Turbo™ 2300 7.2V-10.8V adjustable



Introductory Price: $89.95



2300 mAh, 7.2V-10.8V adjustable, Lithium ion, 2S1P
Battery dimensions: 135mm length x 28mm diameter
Weight: 240g - 8.4oz
Output: Up to 30C continuous, 60C pulses
Max temperature: 140F/60C
Features: Balancing connector, Deans Ultra output/charge connector

Retail Price: $99.95

Tips

[WingTips24]

Hypersonic Turbo™ 2300 10.8V-14.4V adjustable



Introductory Price: $114.95


2300 mAh, 10.8V-14.4V adjustable, Lithium ion, 3S1P
Dimensions: 70mm length x 55mm width
Weight: 315g = 11.1oz
Output: Up to 30C continuous, 60C pulses
Max temperature: 140F/60C
Features: Balancing connector, Deans Ultra output/charge connectors, push button adjustable voltage output (10.8V-14.4V)

Retail Price: $129.95


Tips

[WingTips24]

Hypersonic Turbo™ 4600 7.2V-10.8V adjustable



Introductory Price: $139.95


4600 mAh, 7.2V-10.8V adjustable, Lithium ion, 2S2P
Battery dimensions: 135mm x 28mm x 53mm
Module dimensions: 51mm x 51mm x 10mm
Weight: 395g - 13.9oz
Output: Up to 30C continuous, 60C pulses
Max temperature: 140F/60C
Features: Balancing connector, Deans Ultra output/charge connectors, pushbutton adjustable voltage output (7.2V-10.8V)

Retail Price: $159.95


Tips

[WingTips24]

Hypersonic™ Starter Kits

HS-SK-2S1P
Retail Price: $129.95 One Hypersonic™ 2300 6.6V 2S1P pack and One Sonic Charge System
Battery dimensions: 135mm length x 28mm diameter
Weight: 155g
Output: Up to 30C continuous, 60C pulses
Max temperature: 160F/71C
Features: Balancing connector, Deans Ultra output/charge connector</SPAN>
Price: $119.95

Introductory Price: $119.95

[WingTips24]

Hypersonic™ Two 3S1P Starter KitHS-SK-3S1P
Retail Price: $223.89 Two 3S1P Hypersonic™ 2300 9.9V packs and One Sonic Charge System
Dimensions: 70mm length x 55mm width
Weight: 230g
Output: Up to 30C continuous, 60C pulses
Features: Balancing connector, Deans Ultra output/charge connector



Introductory Price: $183.89

[WingTips24]

There are more but here are a few...

Tips

[WingTips24]

Designed exclusively for HypersonicTM and Hypersonic TurboTM battery packs, the Sonic Charge system will automatically detect the number of cells in your pack and charge them in as little as 15 minutes. Thanks to the nanophosphate technology from A123Systems, there is no need to worry about thermal runaway or fire. As a result, you no longer need to monitor the battery while charging or use a fire proof box.

• Accepts 12V input power
• Connections/interface:
  - Charge connector (Deans Ultra)
  - One charge balancing connector (Anderson)
  - LED indicates state-of-charge
  - Fast charge capable 15 minutes

Retail price: $99.95

Introductory Price: $79.95

product specs Power Supply: 10-15V DC
Charge Cells: 1-3 (Hypersonic™ Packs Only)
Cell Balancing: Yes
Pole Reversal Protection: Yes
Charging Power: Max. 108W
Charging Current: Max. 10A
Charging Voltage: 3.5-10.5V
Status Indicators: LED
Fuse: 15A Auto Style Spade Fuse, Input & output
Dimensions (W x H x D): 126 x 46 x 82 mm


Tips

[WingTips24]

A123Systems M1 cells offer the highest commercially available power density of any Li Ion chemistry: Our high power products are able to pulse at discharge rates as high as 100C and deliver over 3000W/kg, over an order of magnitude better than conventional Lithium-Ion cells and with their low impedance and thermally conductive design, A123 cells can be continuously discharged to 100% depth of discharge at 35C rate, a marked improvement over all other rechargeable battery alternatives.

A unique feature of A123Systems’ M1 cells is their ability to charge to high capacity in 5 minutes or less. That’s a significant improvement over traditional Li Ion, which typically requires more than 90 minutes to reach a similar level of charge. This unique capability offers a new level of convenience for users of cordless products. Fast charge will be a key enabler of practical electric drive vehicles; by combining fast charge with high energy, high power and safety A123Systems M1 batteries are the ideal solution for next generation electric motorcycles, PHEV and electric drive vehicles.

A123Systems has developed a packaging system that offers 4 times higher thermal conductivity than conventional Lithium-Ion cylindrical cells. Coupled with the industry’s lowest impedance, this allows the most efficient temperature management of any Lithium-Ion cell in the market. As a result, A123 cells can operate without the cooling systems that are required in many applications, which currently use higher impedance battery products.

Tips

[WingTips24]

A123Systems outstanding chemical stability and a flat plateau at a lower oxidation potential than other Li Ion chemistries provides our products with record life.
At low rates our M1 cells can deliver several thousands of cycles at 100%DOD, a feat unmatched by commercial Li Ion cells.
Our batteries meet the most aggressive hybrid electric vehicle cycle life requirements and at high rates with 100% DOD, our batteries are able to deliver unmatched life performance.

Whether your product needs to work in Alaska or Arizona, A123Systems M1 chemistry offers the widest temperature window of all Li Ion chemistries. Our cells are designed to deliver high power pulses at temperatures as low as -30 degrees C or as high as 70 degrees C.

Impedance growth is one of the top failure modes of high power batteries and a major cause of power fade over the life of the battery. Our batteries are uniquely engineered (pat. pending) so their internal resistance (impedance) will decrease with their use. This is the opposite effect to most Li Ion cells which experience a growth in their internal resistance as they are cycled at high rates or temperatures. This is a significant benefit in applications requiring long calendar life such as hybrid electric vehicles or in devices that simply must work such as medical devices or mission critical systems.


Tips

[WingTips24]

A123 M1 cells are intrinsically safe and eliminate the risk of explosions and thermal runaway associated with conventional Lithium-Ion batteries that use oxide active materials. To achieve this, the active materials in A123’s technology are not combustible and do not release oxygen if exposed to high temperature or in the event of battery failure or mechanical abuse.

A123 materials are designed to ensure all the Lithium is fully extracted from the cathode when the battery is fully charged. As a result safety issues relating to overcharge are eliminated because there is no Lithium available to plate on the anode in an overcharged state. This is in contrast to conventional Li Ion cells, which only extract half their Lithium content when they reach their upper cut-off voltage. Conventional Li Ion cells are easy to overcharge and once in this state they can continue to extract Lithium putting the cell in a dangerous mode and making it prone to fires and explosions.

A123Systems uses patent pending laser-welded multi-plate tubular construction that is vibration and abuse tolerant. This design offers unsurpassed hermetic sealing with the lowest internal resistance, a key benefit for mission critical and medical devices or applications requiring extreme calendar life such as Hybrid Electric Vehicles.

While other battery technologies like NiCd and traditional Lithium-Ion employ heavy metals and elements that are known to be highly toxic or potential carcinogens. A123Systems M1 cells do not contain heavy metals and are environmentally friendly.


Tips

[ragbag]

The Fledgling is set up to be run on a two cell lipo, 600 brushed motor.

We used it for a few tests with the A123 three cell and at 385' above sea level had no problems. It was set in the three cell stack and set against the front former and was an even swap for a two cell 2000 lipo, the CG didn't change. Knowing the voltage difference we went with the three cell pack. Also kept the an eye on the voltage, the BEC was set for Lipo's.

The only problem was I had to give it back to the owner to be recharged.
It was kind of slobbered on when I handed it to him.

Of course he WAS the owner.

I'll make the jump when I can get the charger of my choice, just not realy happy with what I see out there right now.



From Marc's post #4

"The extra weight and lower voltage (leading to lower motor rpm) seemed to make the higher altitude test show one place where the application of these packs would not work well."

This was why I went to the three cell pack, when the setup called for a two cell lipo pack. Don't have my figures here in the office, they're in the garage, one cell didn't make that much difference in weight and it needed the extra cell.


.................................................. .........................

[jonnyjetprop]

Pete at MEC is offering the A123 cells in his power tube. Either 1p or 2p configurations.

http://www.modelelectronicscorp.com/

He has the power tubes seperate, if you want to use your own cells.

John

[WingTips24]

Hey guys ,

Not sure who had the concern but just so yall know I am "not" a vendor or rep and I am in no way affilited with the A123 folks. I got a a little pm that some of you may have been concerned that I may be associated with them. Well rest assure I am not just heard about those batteries 20 minutes before I posted cause my bud gave me a call and asked me to check out the site. I did some quick research while we were on the phone. Seems since no one knew to much about them I volunteered to post some info for ya. I really just copied some of the pages. Anyway no offense taken but I didn't want you guys to go thinkin I was out for your hobby bucks. Any who carry on!

Tips

[Crash Test Dummy]

Thanks for posting the info Tips. I wish we were working for them!! LOL!! We could be there offical testers with lots of free batteries!! I want to know if they have a stock offering, He He He. These packs seem like they will be great for flying 25 size, 40 size and up Electrics. I'll be watching this product with much interest.

CTD

[electriconly]

These cells are great for the larger planes that need either A LOT of Nimah of hundreds of dollars of Lipos to fly.

Positives and Negatives

So far I have been very pleased with my A123M1 cells in both my Freedom 3D and Ultra Stick 60.

Positives:

Cost: a 4S pack costs me <$50.00 to build (from DeWalt battery packs)
Saftey: can charge and do in the airframe in 20 minutes!
Weight: (Freedom 3D) lose 11oz comparing a 10S Gp3300 to a 4S A123
Weight: (Ultra Stick 60) lose 22 oz comparing a 20S Gp3300 to a 8S A123
Performance: lose that kind of weight and guess what happens

Negatives:

Flight time can be lower. But is actual use I see the same flight times as I did with the GP330 packs due to the lower weight.

IMHO the packs from A123 Racing are WAY overpriced compared to building your own packs from DeWalt 36v packs. You can find the DeWalt packs on eBay for around $90.00........ that's $9.00 a cell. Also A123 Racing seems to be after the RC car market and so far does not have any pack larger then 3S. And $99.00 for a 4 cell 2S2P pack!

Let's see:

(4) A123 cells from a DeWalt pack $38.00
SPT kit from ModelElectronics $15.00
Deans Ultra connector $2.50
Balancing leads and connector from alerc $2.50

TOTAL $58.00

If you are willing to solder to the cells and not use a SPT kit the pack cost is only about $44.00.......

Brad