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Old 01-29-2011, 11:35 PM   #51
lou1984
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Guys I am a newbee to eflight not rc .Very experienced in heavy medal fuel warbirds but not big eflight .
For fun I started flying the FMS 55" warbirds and it sold me on eflight .
So now I am moveing my 70"span into eflight , so i am hooked .
My questions as a newbee is that charging has been easy with the small packs but now going to the big packs .
Its confusing and I am looking up and saving a ton of info ect .
When referring to 1c ---- how is that adjusted on the Astro flight 109D ?
Typically my smaller packs are 2200 and charged at 2.2 ect , what or how do you change the settings to assure you are not chargeing more then 1c rate ?
Also I am anal on saftey , even when I was not into eflight but had two lipos I use to tape (eletrical tape) over my deans connectors while in storage so that there was no chance of getting any contact with the deans connector .
Any charger suggestions would be great , also do I need two Astro flight chargers with big packs or can I charge two at one time ?
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:35 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by lou1984 View Post
Guys I am a newbee to eflight not rc .Very experienced in heavy medal fuel warbirds but not big eflight .
For fun I started flying the FMS 55" warbirds and it sold me on eflight .
So now I am moveing my 70"span into eflight , so i am hooked .
My questions as a newbee is that charging has been easy with the small packs but now going to the big packs .
Its confusing and I am looking up and saving a ton of info ect .
When referring to 1c ---- how is that adjusted on the Astro flight 109D ?
Typically my smaller packs are 2200 and charged at 2.2 ect , what or how do you change the settings to assure you are not chargeing more then 1c rate ?
Also I am anal on saftey , even when I was not into eflight but had two lipos I use to tape (eletrical tape) over my deans connectors while in storage so that there was no chance of getting any contact with the deans connector .
Any charger suggestions would be great , also do I need two Astro flight chargers with big packs or can I charge two at one time ?
Take a look, might find something useful here.

Thread on 70 size glow engine conversion to electric
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45222
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:02 AM   #53
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Thanks buddy , appreciate the link !!!
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:02 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by lou1984 View Post
Guys I am a newbee to eflight not rc .Very experienced in heavy medal fuel warbirds but not big eflight .
For fun I started flying the FMS 55" warbirds and it sold me on eflight .
So now I am moveing my 70"span into eflight , so i am hooked .
My questions as a newbee is that charging has been easy with the small packs but now going to the big packs .
Its confusing and I am looking up and saving a ton of info ect .
When referring to 1c ---- how is that adjusted on the Astro flight 109D ?
Typically my smaller packs are 2200 and charged at 2.2 ect , what or how do you change the settings to assure you are not chargeing more then 1c rate ?
Also I am anal on saftey , even when I was not into eflight but had two lipos I use to tape (eletrical tape) over my deans connectors while in storage so that there was no chance of getting any contact with the deans connector .
Any charger suggestions would be great , also do I need two Astro flight chargers with big packs or can I charge two at one time ?



What size are the bigger batteries you are talking about?
The web site for the 109D:

http://www.astroflight.com/index.php...products_id=23

seems to show a current adjust knob in the center of the charger that would be used to adjust the charging current. There is a link to the manual, that at first glance seems to pretty clear on how to set up the charger, the specific charging instructions are at the bottom of page 2; there are a couple twists to using this charger, I would read the directions closely.
It does not appear this has balancing capability built in, are you using a separate balancer?
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:30 AM   #55
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This is the battery , two per plane and yes i am useing a separate balancer plugeed into the balance outlet on the Battery
Capacity
: 5000mAh
Voltage: 5S1P / 5 Cell / 18.5V
Discharge: 45C Constant / 90C Burst
Weight: 715g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions: 161x50x44mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: 4mm bullet-connector
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:44 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by lou1984 View Post
Thanks buddy , appreciate the link !!!

No Problem!

Check out the more capable chargers such as the Cellpro 10S line. If my understanding is correct, these chargers balance the cells by ADDING extra charge to the low cells, rather than discharging all cells to the same voltage that Astro does. Cellpro also has a 4S line. Don't own either of them, I designed and built my own 6S 10 Amp chargers.

I've got an Astroflight "Little Blinky". Did considerable testing on that, and because the discharge voltage of the A123 cells is so flat, discharging the A123 cells to the same voltage does not work.

Should work OK on Lipos though. But the Cellpro and other brands don't require a "Little Blinky".
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:09 AM   #57
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EVERYTHING YOU WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT ELECTRIC FLIGHT
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31071


There is a lot of good information in this e-book, and you can ask questions.

As for Lipos for large planes, well it depends on how large. You can approach this in 2 ways:

1) use large packs with high capacity and C ratings. Then you only need one pack.

2) Use multiple packs in series or parallel, depending on whether you need more voltage or more capacity or more C rating.

For example, you can have a plane that needs 22.6 volts. That would be a 6S lipo pack. or 2 3S packs in series using an adapter to join two 3S packs into a 6S pack. This is good because you can fly the big plane on those packs or you can use them individually in smaller planes. Lots of flexibility. Also, two 3S packs is probably less costly than one 6S pack simply because they sell a LOT more 3S packs than 6S packs.

But now you have to charge two packs. How do you do that?

You can buy a higher end charger that can charge two packs, or you can buy two less expenseive chargers and charge them separately. Up to you.

If I was going to use two smaller packs to make one bigger pack I would probably use two chargers. It is probably cheaper to buy two good smaller chargers than one big charger. And when you are flying smaller planes you can charge two packs at once and stay in the air all day.

Something like the Cellpro 4S would work
http://www.revolectrix.com/cat.chargers.htm


However if you are flying only big planes and someting like 6S is mostly what you will be suing and the packs are higher capacity, like 4000 mah or above, then single packs and a higher end charger is probably the best approach.

Chargers like the Lab 8 or 10S would be good
http://www.revolectrix.com/cat.chargers.htm


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Old 01-30-2011, 10:30 AM   #58
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That is what I have , the "Blinkey" and its smaller adapter as well .
With the Astro flight 109d, it seems to work really well .
I am going to pick up the 10s as well , it would seem to be the next generation needed for the larger packs .
I did not know that the Astro flight attemps to discharge first then starts its charge , I noticed that but I assumed it was a result of the sequence that it was connected and or powered up .
Example if you turn it on attached to the power source it looks for the battery to charge , if you turn it on with the battery connected it goes into discharge mode , would that discharge then automaticlly cycle to charge ?
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:40 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by lou1984 View Post
That is what I have , the "Blinkey" and its smaller adapter as well .
With the Astro flight 109d, it seems to work really well .
I am going to pick up the 10s as well , it would seem to be the next generation needed for the larger packs .
I did not know that the Astro flight attemps to discharge first then starts its charge , I noticed that but I assumed it was a result of the sequence that it was connected and or powered up .
Example if you turn it on attached to the power source it looks for the battery to charge , if you turn it on with the battery connected it goes into discharge mode , would that discharge then automaticlly cycle to charge ?
That seems like odd behavior. I don't knwo this charger so I can't comment. Does it say discharge or are you reading voltage on the screen and guessing it is going into discharge?

It may be testing the pack for voltage, current charge state, resisitance and the like. My Cellpro 4S does this. The first thing it does is give me a report ot the "fuel level" of the pack, then it goes into charge.

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Old 01-30-2011, 10:45 AM   #60
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Default differant planes , differant needs

Thanks sir , my goal is to power all my 70" thru 75" span warbirds with the same range of motors , esc and batterys .Weight will avg the same with the exception of the KMP corsair being on the heavier side .
I sticking with three size planes but concentrating in two areas .
1)The bigger birds with 70" /75" spand avg weight 14.5 thru 18.5 warbirds
2)The small fun foamys in the 55" range (I will post some pics as examples )
3)60" thru 65" ---9 to 11 pound models (warbirds )
for the larger birds i want to go with two of the following because I can split the packs on each side of the motor getting my weight up front with the hope of zero weight needed to be added for CG
Capacity: 5000mAh
Voltage: 5S1P / 5 Cell / 18.5V
Discharge: 45C Constant / 90C Burst
Weight: 715g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions: 161x50x44mm


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Old 01-30-2011, 11:37 AM   #61
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Yep, you are going to need a big charger like the 10S. You might need two if you want to spend most of your time in the air. So how many chargers and how many battery packs will you need?


This is more about chargers than packs but the two are so tightly tied that I don't think we are getting too far off the subject. And this becomes more of a consideration when flying big birds and big packs, as you plan to do.

Some chargers can safely charge at 1C rate. Others claim to be able to charge some lithium packs at up to 3C rates. Do you care?

Lipos may be able to be charged safely at 3C but A123s can be charged MUCH faster. Should you be using these instead of Lipos?

If you like to do a 10 minute flight and then BS with the guys for an hour, it doesn't matter how fast your charger is as long as it can finish the pack in about an hour. If you are like me, you like to stay in the air most of the day and let the guys watch. Now it matters how quickly you can charge those packs and you may need more packs and/or more chargers.

Look at the specs. Let's use the Cellpro 10S as the example to illustrate these points. http://www.revolectrix.com/10s_specs_tab.htm

Max output is 180 watts using a 12V input. That would be 9.7 amps for a 5S pack. If that pack is 5000 mah, then your highest possible charge rate will be 1.8C. A fully depleted 5S pack can be charged in 33 minutes, approximately.

But if you are charging 2 5C packs then the best you will be able to do is .9C meaning your charge will take a bit over an hour. That may be just fine or it may be an eye opener. You have to decide. How much do you want to fly in a given hour?

Three pack sets and two chargers? (one to fly and two on the chargers) Two pack sets and one charger? One pack and one charger? Up to you.

How are you going to drive these chargers? Your car battery? Several charge cycles may deplete that car battery enough that you might need a jump start. Is there AC power at your site? Will you need an AC to DC power supply to run your charger(s)? Things to think about. Things that pilots flying 2 pound planes don't really have to consider very much.

Remember we rarely fully discharge the packs so your charge times will likely be a bit shorter, but you get the illustration.

So, if that is too long for you, you can get two 10S chargers or you can get something that has more oomph. Which is the best approach? That is up to you, but I thought the illustration would be good in this discussion.

I have the Cellpro 4S, but I also have other chargers. So I could use one 4S pack or 2 2S packs and split them between two chargers.

What is the best approach? Your smileage will vary, but at least I have you thinking and planning now, and that was the goal of this post.

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Old 01-30-2011, 01:54 PM   #62
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Thanks great post and great info .I will most likley need the cellpro10s as the even the Astro seems obsolete in the info you have revealed .
I fly on the weekends from spring to early winter , will charge all batterys at home , outside on concrete surface .
This allows me to accomplish my outside honey due list while the batterys charge in my full view . So one or two can be done at even slower rate if desired because the yard work needed to complete will take longer lol .
I have 4 packs in the size above , I have no problem flyioing one large plane(once ) twice or two large planes once at ecah outing , then a mid size one other packs , and then the small .
That will give me an hour or so of good flying .
I like the eflight vs the glow because it allows me to get to the field and fly , yes the prep work at home is much longer then glow /gas but in the end its a plug and fly option at the field . Like you when i am at the field I want to simply fly .
I have spent years toying with 90 plus size 4 strokes ect and its like have a small child needing 100lbs of life support just to get to the mall !!!!
I may go for two charges but with the cell pro , even 90 mins at home for 2 large batterys is very acceptable
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:01 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by lou1984 View Post
I like the eflight vs the glow because it allows me to get to the field and fly , yes the prep work at home is much longer then glow /gas but in the end its a plug and fly option at the field . Like you when i am at the field I want to simply fly .
I have spent years toying with 90 plus size 4 strokes ect and its like have a small child needing 100lbs of life support just to get to the mall !!!!
And, you will be joining the legion of modelers that find out electric powered models are cleaner than glow. When you are done flying, no cleaning, no nothing, just put the model back in your vehicle. That means no fuel leaks in your car, no fuel inside your model, no fuel soaking of the model, no vibration on your radio system.

So, your models and radio system will last much longer with electric rather than glow power. (Of course ignoring the potential for crashes )
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Old 02-03-2011, 02:13 PM   #64
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What would you replace lipo with?

New to hobby. I have 6 2 channel and one 3 channel. But haven't charged and flown any yet.
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:43 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by zzlentz View Post
What would you replace lipo with?

New to hobby. I have 6 2 channel and one 3 channel. But haven't charged and flown any yet.
Another option for Lipo batteries is the A123 system. But, they are heavier than Lipo, have lower voltage and a few other issues. IMHO, that makes them more for the larger models. But I did use them very successfully in models with about a 40 inch wingspan. Take a look:

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47965
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:54 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by lou1984 View Post
Thanks great post and great info .I will most likley need the cellpro10s as the even the Astro seems obsolete in the info you have revealed .
I fly on the weekends from spring to early winter , will charge all batterys at home , outside on concrete surface .
This allows me to accomplish my outside honey due list while the batterys charge in my full view . So one or two can be done at even slower rate if desired because the yard work needed to complete will take longer lol .
I have 4 packs in the size above , I have no problem flyioing one large plane(once ) twice or two large planes once at ecah outing , then a mid size one other packs , and then the small .
That will give me an hour or so of good flying .
I like the eflight vs the glow because it allows me to get to the field and fly , yes the prep work at home is much longer then glow /gas but in the end its a plug and fly option at the field . Like you when i am at the field I want to simply fly .
I have spent years toying with 90 plus size 4 strokes ect and its like have a small child needing 100lbs of life support just to get to the mall !!!!
I may go for two charges but with the cell pro , even 90 mins at home for 2 large batterys is very acceptable
Great if it works for you. Me, I want to fly and fly and fly!

Maybe that is why I have moved almost totally to gliders. Long Long flights.

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Old 02-17-2011, 04:34 PM   #67
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I haven't had anything RC until 3 months ago (after a 20+ year break) and did decide to go all electric this time. Naturally the models I bought recently came with LiPo batteries. The first plane was a small indoor - Ember 2 and so far none of the batteries (1 cell) have gone bad. On the other hand, when I purchased the outdoor trainer - FlyLite by ElectriFly, the battery that came with it only worked twice and it was balanced by the same brand charger and balancer that came with the ARF plane. I still have no idea why that 2 cell LiPo pack and one other went flat after only a few charges. The other 2 cell that went flat also vented and caused the outer clear plastic wrap to swell enough to notice.

I used a LiPo voltage checker on both packs and it wouldn't even turn on, suggesting there was no voltage left in either cell. I took the two dead packs to "Batteries Plus" to see if they could do anything with them. They don't sell RC battery packs, but they did take them for disposal at no cost to me. Since some of the above threads say Radio Shack will also take the LiPo packs for disposal at no cost, that is information I can use! As a side note, I had seen on Youtube a few RC airplane drivers who made video put their LiPo battery packs in a surplus ammo box. I do the same these days and I noticed mine seals out air very well. It is also a little difficult to open due to the seal, but that is a good thing.

The video I have seen about LiPo packs burning or smoking instruct Lithium will burn if exposed to oxygen and in one demo a guy put a 3 cell pack in a thick metal cash box. He wanted to see if the cash box would contain a LiPo fire. He quickly punctured the LiPo pack with an ice pick and the pack instantly began to smoke. He stated the smoke was toxic and getting very hot. He slammed the cash box top closed and pushed down on the lid until it locked. He was wearing a very heavy glove that looked like a welders leather glove. Some smoke did continue to leak gently from the cash box, but the fire was contained. The internal heat from the lithium was high enough to scorch the paint on the cash box, which is normally baked on enamel.

I am not one to stab a dead LiPo pack just to see what will happen, but the demo was educational and part of the reason I purchased a surplus ammo box to store my LiPo packs. I also have three of the charging bags sold for LiPo packs, but to be honest I am not so confident a velcro closure can take the heat if a pack does burn off. I don't have an experience to know different and I'm not one to test the charging bag on purpose. Since most of my LiPo packs are 2 cell, the guys at the RC club seem to think I have little to worry about. Here is to hoping they are right! I am thinking the newer ABC batteries will come down in price in another three years or so, if they are better and safer as claimed. If all is true, I will replace the packs I have by then and not worry so much.
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Old 02-17-2011, 05:26 PM   #68
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Build Review Charging Li-Po batteries

After flying for about a month (getting back into the hobby) with LiPo single cell and 2 cell packs, it was obvious I wanted to charge more than one battery, or pack at a time if I was going to fly more and spend less time re-charging. The single cell charger that comes with the RTF (Ready To Fly) model planes will only charge one battery at a time, so naturally I starting looking into chargers with more plugs. I bought and use the Celectra Li-Po (Lithium Polymer) charger for the 1 cell, 3.7 VDC batteries. It charges them at the 0.3a rate, which doesn't seem to take very long and is fully automatic. You can use D-cells (flashlight batteries) in the charger, or you can purchase a wall adapter (115 VAC) for it. I bought the wall adaptor and charger to save money on flashlight batteries and to keep the charging rate fast. As the D-cells run down, the charging rate slows noticeably.

For the 2 and 3 cell batteries I have for the outdoor birds, I purchased a Quatro 4x6 from Hobby King. There are two other chargers just like it and it appears the only difference is the label on the field charger. Mine is a field charger, meaning you need a 12 VDC battery to power the unit. I use a large, sealed motor cycle battery to power the charger, but I have to ensure the motor cycle battery has a full charge before using it as a power source for the Li-Po/NiCad/etc. field charger. Naturally that means I have to use the old auto battery charger on the 2 amp trickle charge rate for at least six hours before hand. If the Quatro 4x6 is powered by a weak battery power source, the charger soon tells me I have a low input voltage problem to correct. Otherwise it will charge four battery packs at the same time as individual batteries and is quick to do the job.

Each battery is charged at the settings required for safety and the Quatro 4x6 can re-charge more than Li-Po battery packs. You must pay attention to the charger settings or you risk problems, but the set up seems easy enough. There are only four buttons to play with for each panel, and each battery to be charged has it's own control panel. Each panel also has a digital display, so it is just a matter of reading the display and pushing one of the buttons for the setting you need. I watched a few Youtube video demonstrations a Hobby King sponsored representative posted to see how the charger was used. After that it seems like childs play and no big deal. I am getting spoiled by Youtube when I want to watch what others have done, or played with.

The part I like the most is how I can charge over a dozen 2 or 3 cell Li-Po packs (the charger is rated up to 6 cells) in around 4 hours the day before I plan to fly, take the charger with me for field charging, and fly almost 5 hours until I go cross-eyed. Since I am no longer a young man, I can only manage four to five hours at the club field before I must call it a day and pay the price for the next two or three days. If I was much younger I am sure six hours of flying would be no big deal and I could do it every day for a month without feeling worn out and beat up the next day. One of the nice things about electric flight is how routine it seems after the first half hour and trouble free even if it is too cold for the gassers to get their engines running right. Experienced that at the club field January first for our break in the New Year right event.
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:12 PM   #69
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How do I know the battery is balanced?
Do the chargers that come with the plane shut down auto. after full charge.
Do I need to sit and watch it charge?Or can i go fishing?
I'm new to this you know,and you're scaring the hell out of me.
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Old 04-09-2011, 04:48 PM   #70
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I just orderd a HawkSky from Grayson Hobbies. Do you think the LI-PO and charger that comes with it is a good one ? I used to fly gas powered back in the late 80's, but am just now going electric. It's like startin' all over again. I'm tryin' to get my 7 yr. old grandson into the sport. OK it's for me, too. But I really don't want to burn the house down either!!!!! I would really be greatful for any help I can get. THANKS!!!!!
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Old 04-09-2011, 05:05 PM   #71
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The chargers that come with the planes do have a shut down feature but it would be a good idea to pick up a nice balancing charger. They will charge your packs faster and you can charge more than one type (as in the RTR chargers are only for charging the pack that it comes with).

The key is to use a charger with a balancer and not to charge over the C rating. I charge my 2200 Lipos at 2.2 amps. it is a good idea to buy a charging bag or use some sort of fire proof box to charge them in.

If you treat them with respect you will not have any issues. I would not start charging a battery then leave. My charge station is right next to my computer area (where I spend most of my time) and I keep an eye on both the charger and the battery. When your packs start to get puffy you should stop using them.

I have been using lipos for 3 years now with ZERO incident. I own 20 lipos right now and I know the condition of every one. Use common sense and you will be fine.

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Old 04-09-2011, 05:42 PM   #72
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Thanks chops1sc. I've been eyeballin' a $30 balancing charger at Grayson for 2 & 3 cells. It's the least expensive one they have ( OK the CHEAPEST, limited funds you know.) I don't know if that would be good enough or not. OH, I did order a bag with it. THANKS AGAIN!!!!!
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Old 04-09-2011, 05:59 PM   #73
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This is pretty much the same charger I have (mines a B5).
http://www.valuehobby.com/product_de...67&item_id=109
It works great. I used an old computer power supply to power it. They offer one with an AC adapter but it is out of stock. These things are all over eBay and HobbyKing.

Good luck!

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Old 04-09-2011, 06:00 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by booterspaw View Post
I just orderd a HawkSky from Grayson Hobbies. Do you think the LI-PO and charger that comes with it is a good one ? I used to fly gas powered back in the late 80's, but am just now going electric. It's like startin' all over again. I'm tryin' to get my 7 yr. old grandson into the sport. OK it's for me, too. But I really don't want to burn the house down either!!!!! I would really be greatful for any help I can get. THANKS!!!!!

Check out the Cellpro 4, per below:
http://www.fmadirect.com/Detail.htm?...218&section=45

At $28.00, that's an even better price. Don't know about the charger you are looking at, but the Cellpro chargers balance the cells by ADDING milliampere hours to the cell with lower charge, rather than subtracting ampere hours from the highest charge.

I've got the Cellpro Powerlab 8, a far more high powered charger, and this thing is very well made.

These chargers do require a 12 Volt battery, or a 12 Volt power supply to operate. If you'd like a plug and play 12 Volt power supply, take a look: http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=16013+PS (They are currently out of stock on this but expect more this month. www.mpja.com has a WIDE variety of 120 VAC to DC type power supplies. I've got one that is 24 Volts DC at 25 Amps output.)

To power up these mpja power supplies, you simply connect a three wire power cord to its input screws, and the DC output red and black wires to its output screws. And, plug it in.

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Old 04-09-2011, 06:18 PM   #75
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Thanks guys. I'll check all of these out. Like I say, I can use all the help I can get! I've got a dream of some day making my 20 yr. old Goldberg Cub electric. I guess we all have to have a dream. (That is if the wing is still good enough to fly.)
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