"Full contact" combat designs and equip

[G_Countryman]

Originally Posted by BMJR

Some of us have put together bluecor constructed combat planes of various sizes and means of power and tried to do some combat. What we found was that simply cutting a ribbon wasn't as much fun as trying to take out the other person plane. Also even when we were only trying to cut ones ribbon there was the ocasional mid air.
About all we accomplished was destroying equip and emptying our wallets.
So I'm thinking about building a design that can handle full contact combat with reasonable survivability.
With that in mind weight seems to be a big factor (the plane needs to be light 8oz. or less) also speed (needs to fly relatively slow) We want to use brushless motors of CDROM class or only slightly larger. With the motor/ESC/battery and other equip mounted in a location so that it is protected as much as possible. A pusher with some type of ring or other means of prop protection seems the best choice.
We will be flying over tall grass, so surface impact will not be an issue. We just want something that we can fly into each other with and not do major damage.

Have any of you tried such a combat format or design? Any advise??
Thanks

Check out JKaerotech.com they have a special collection of SSC (slow speed combat) airplanes, made of pink construction foam, and covered with packing tape and coroplast usually run a .15-.20, but they have made provision for electrics also. Price range from 39 to 45 skins.
Wiz.

[irone]

Originally Posted by BMJR

Good info, guys
I like the F-22 style configuration. I think I'll try one a bit smaller in size so I can use a small brushless motors such as a CDROM conversion or an IPS brushless.
Below is a link I found showing views and pictures of the F-22.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-22.htm

Sorry guys......... You won't gain a thing as far as mid-air destruction with this design. It is a pusher design but other than that it will be possibly more fragile than the planes you are already flying.

I like the design and I have built one for testing. I will maiden it later this week and post a pix or two. I have changed it up somewhat from Pyrock's design but basically the same design and WS. Power comes from a J-250 on 7.4V lipo swinging a 4030 prop. After trimmed out I will introduce a 11.1V lipo to it and see how long the motor lasts.

These are still the most rugged for sport Ebat and fly the best.
TopGun Combat Planes
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...serid=brodiejf

[Zack999]

I think the foam planes that cox sells with a 400 motor and a couple mods or throw a depron somthing up or roadkill models with 5 bottels of ca and remember whatever you do you can never have two much power going vertical and don't make it a money event ceep it cheep

[G_Countryman]

We used to fly the coroplast .25 powered combat planes, and had an absolute blast. That is until the ....other guys...started decorating their planes and making them look so good that they would just fly around and stay away from the action, because they didn't want to hurt their pretty little planes. Eventually they became meusum pieces, and just two of us were left, then the second guy quit because he got a new house. Those coroplast were virtually indestructable, usually a crash just netted you a broken prop. I miss those days. www.spadtothebone.com will give you some ideas.
Gary.

[G_Countryman]

JKAerotec had/has some 1/12 scale airplanes that make excellent combat models, made of pink foam covered with packing tape, nearly indestructable, and also use coroplast in construction in the critical areas,so they stay in the air after they get hit. More fun. I wish I could get some of the guys interested around here. Once again, too pretty of a plane, and they don't want to dent them up. I think I will sell my house and move out to where you guys live. Check out the Utah flyers group. They make their own wings for around $13 to $15 dollars from EPP, and just have a ball www.utahflyers.com they have kits for sale too they are flying wings tho, and fly full contact combat, and have videos to prove the resiliency of those things. Made from 1oo% EPP, hard to hurt that stuff.
Gary

[irone]

Originally Posted by G_Countryman

We used to fly the coroplast .25 powered combat planes, and had an absolute blast. That is until the ....other guys...started decorating their planes and making them look so good that they would just fly around and stay away from the action, because they didn't want to hurt their pretty little planes.
Gary.

Gary......... I have found that there are two costs or expenses to consider with a combat plane. You mention Spads and JK Aerotech. The first cost is the expense of the plane and that may be bearable by some. The next cost is emotional attachment. Building either of those planes requires many, many hours of work. One just hates to think of tearing up all that time, money and energy. Which is why I developed the TopGun Park Fighters. The TopGuns build out in two hours, scratch emotional attachment. They cost less than $100.00 with all new servos, reciever, chrystal, speed controller, motor and prop. A second or third/fourth etc. airplane will cost $3 to $4 dollars and 2 hours building, scratch $ cost.The only thing that is left is the fun and excitement of E-Combat.


TopGun Park Fighters
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...serid=brodiejf

[G_Countryman]

You will be hearing from me very very soon. I only hope I can convince my fellow flyers to do the same.
Thank you very much, irone, it's guys like you that make this hobby easier, and more fun.
Keep up the good work.

[irone]

Pyrock........ Here is my F22. It has the same WS as yours, however many changes were made for a more scale-like plane. I maidened it last Sunday. The J250 on 2S lipos seems to have good power for most general flying it does mush out on loops. With a 3 cell pack it is much faster with good loops and rolls. The J250 on 3 cells 11.1VDC makes the motor and battery run very hot. I may have to go to a BL motor for the best performance.

[BMJR]

Originally Posted by irone

Sorry guys......... You won't gain a thing as far as mid-air destruction with this design. It is a pusher design but other than that it will be possibly more fragile than the planes you are already flying.

I like the design and I have built one for testing. I will maiden it later this week and post a pix or two. I have changed it up somewhat from Pyrock's design but basically the same design and WS. Power comes from a J-250 on 7.4V lipo swinging a 4030 prop. After trimmed out I will introduce a 11.1V lipo to it and see how long the motor lasts.

Looks good.

What I'm looking to do with the mid or pusher mounted motor is avoid prop/esc/motor damage. Not really concerned about airframe damage.
The main problems we were having are
1) lots of broke props from contacting the other plane(s)
2) Bent motor shafts, damaged gear drives, rotors, etc.
3) Lots of damage from the prop blades striking the esc, wires, battery, etc.

Here is a picture of my take on the F-22.
I first powered it with an IPS direct drive turning a 3X3 prop on 2S. It flew good, but was low on power.
It now has a CC mamba turning a 4.5" prop.
Flies great and the elevons were more effective that I expected in terms of roll authority.
I need to go to a slightly larger prop for better power/efficiency and then put some type of guard around the prop to avoid the problems above.

[Pyrock]

Originally Posted by BMJR

Looks good.

What I'm looking to do with the mid or pusher mounted motor is avoid prop/esc/motor damage. Not really concerned about airframe damage.
The main problems we were having are
1) lots of broke props from contacting the other plane(s)
2) Bent motor shafts, damaged gear drives, rotors, etc.
3) Lots of damage from the prop blades striking the esc, wires, battery, etc.

Here is a picture of my take on the F-22.
I first powered it with an IPS direct drive turning a 3X3 prop on 2S. It flew good, but was low on power.

It now has a CC mamba turning a 4.5" prop.
Flies great and the elevons were more effective that I expected in terms of roll authority.
I need to go to a slightly larger prop for better power/efficiency and then put some type of guard around the prop to avoid the problems above.

You should try my setup:
Park 370 motor (4100kv)
Kokam 3S 910
CC Pheonix 10
GWS 3x3 prop.

If you want to see a video of it buzzing around at 40mph, email me with your email address. I actually have a couple of BlueCore fuses for sale if anyone is intersted
RandyP3of3@yahoo.com

[irone]

Originally Posted by BMJR

Looks good.

What I'm looking to do with the mid or pusher mounted motor is avoid prop/esc/motor damage. Not really concerned about airframe damage.
The main problems we were having are
1) lots of broke props from contacting the other plane(s)
2) Bent motor shafts, damaged gear drives, rotors, etc.
3) Lots of damage from the prop blades striking the esc, wires, battery, etc.

Answers:
#1. Use a prop saver and an APC prop. GWS props break easily.
#2. To prevent bent shafts, cut the shaft or shorten it just past the prop saver. Plastic spur gears are subject to damage from dirt. Keep it clean.
#3. Those components should not be left out in the open and subject to damage. The crucible construction of the TopGun planes offer enough protection for the parts mentioned above.
Note: There is no way to completely bullet proof a combat plane but I feel that a plane should last one at least two dozen sorties before reaching retirement age. I usually get a full day in with the loss of only one prop. When I play golf, I loose a half dozen balls.

[Pyrock]

Here's a pic of what I have...

[Oldpilot]

HERE is a pic of my bluecore F-22. Built from a $50.00 kit I got from the States. Flys like a demented bumblebee and is VERY resistant to incipient damage.

Sorry about the 'Holder" but it is the only pic I have of this plane.

[gouch]

Sorry about the 'Holder" but it is the only pic I have of this plane.

You're sorry? It's the best photo so far I wouldn't expect any less from you Patrick!!


Seriously though, it is good news to hear your daughter is recovering after the accident Patrick.

Cheers
Paul

[Pyrock]

Originally Posted by Oldpilot

HERE is a pic of my bluecore F-22. Built from a $50.00 kit I got from the States. Flys like a demented bumblebee and is VERY resistant to incipient damage.

Sorry about the 'Holder" but it is the only pic I have of this plane.

I dont see an F22!!!!

[Oldpilot]

Thanks Paul. She is getting there ----Slowly.
Here is the Parkzone P-51.

[jaguartrax]

Originally Posted by irone

Pyrock........ Here is my F22. It has the same WS as yours, however many changes were made for a more scale-like plane. I maidened it last Sunday. The J250 on 2S lipos seems to have good power for most general flying it does mush out on loops. With a 3 cell pack it is much faster with good loops and rolls. The J250 on 3 cells 11.1VDC makes the motor and battery run very hot. I may have to go to a BL motor for the best performance.

Irone,

I was curious. I noticed that the cutout for the prop is more hourglass shaped than rectanglular. Is this for performance, sound or cosmetic?

[irone]

Originally Posted by jaguartrax

Irone,

I was curious. I noticed that the cutout for the prop is more hourglass shaped than rectanglular. Is this for performance, sound or cosmetic?

I have learned through past experience with this type of model to allow plenty of room for the prop to wander around. The motor can loosen and turn a bit or the prop can get skewed and cut into the plane. It mostly is just insurance and doesn't effect the flight charastics at all.

What you probably didn't pick up on is the camber cut into the leading edge of the wing. This really does something. Makes it faster and flies better. It fools the flat wing into thinking it has an airfoil.

[Pyrock]

[quote=irone;26940
What you probably didn't pick up on is the camber cut into the leading edge of the wing. This really does something. Makes it faster and flies better. It fools the flat wing into thinking it has an airfoil.[/quote]

I did the same thing with my F22 but it was mainly for appearance as it is much too small to effect lift characteristics.

[irone]

Pyrock......... If you make your cut at 20 degrees it truley does provide lift and about 5mph more speed. I first noticed this on the combat planes. Believe it or not. It works!

[Pyrock]

Originally Posted by irone

Pyrock......... If you make your cut at 20 degrees it truley does provide lift and about 5mph more speed. I first noticed this on the combat planes. Believe it or not. It works!

Really? Hey, I have no problem with that! ...And all this time I did it all for looks. Thanks for the info!!

[irone]

Pyrock.....I just put an A+ on your reputation.

[Oldpilot]

I HAVE just got an EPP full contact combat CORSAIR Streetfighter from Northeast Sailplanes. To save a lot of my chatter just go to their website http://www.nesail.com Go to "Electrics" in the menue then "Combat". Whole bunch of models both warbirds and jets. Almost indestructable with "breakaway" motor mounts to save the prop and motor in a prang.

[BadTroll413]

OK....I did a little bit of research into this.....and talked with a brother in law of mine who works with carbon fiber. He belives that if you make this plane from all carbon fiber.....the cost will be a little bit more....but in the end will be far more resilient to crashes and repairs. From what I ahve seen and done with carbon fiber....its not that hard to work with....it just take a little time and learning to deal with it....but it is rock solid and dependable along with being very light. In addition you can drill mounting holes to place brackets in for placement adjustability with out lowering the strength of the fuse. We did this with an experimental A-10 years ago and never had the fuse break. You can make it increadbly thin or thicken it up with a filler layer. To fix it, all you so is sand and reseal in most cases so yer not really adding much if any weight.


Just my 2 cents. I like this plane and am thinking of building it after my A-10 is done.

[BadTroll413]

sorry forgot to add this......as for cost as I said above...initially it will cost more....but I think you will not ahve to replace as much in the long run so over all the cost should be loswer ove the life of the plane. Another thing to remember....with carbon fiber you can make the edges increadbly sharp. Sharp enough to slice yerself open if you try and catch a moving plane with uneased edges.