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Old 03-23-2007, 02:08 AM   #51
Bill G
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Go look at my post times, and you'll get a real kick.
My life story lately: Got a couple hours?

Bill
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Old 03-23-2007, 08:13 PM   #52
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Finished levelling the sheeting on the boom, and shaping the curve in the rear boom area. Still have the top boom area to finish. Also shown is a poor pic of the blends where the boom meets the fuse. These actually were less difficult to fill and shape than I expected, and needed only a small wedege of sheeting to fill the void left where the sheeting was slit. Good thing that I backed this area with balsa first, before sheeting.

The thing's starting to look like an airplane, but still have a long way to go. Haven't even started on the foam core wing and more difficult curved parts like the removable roof and engine cover. Still, I'm finally starting to feel like I'm getting somewhere with this project.

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Old 03-24-2007, 02:48 PM   #53
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Bill:
If you want paint that looks like real aluminum instead of painted aluminum, try the Testors chrome paint in the spray bombs. I do my GWS orange props with it and people ask where I got the aluminum props from. Also, throw a small piece of real sponge in the bottom of the fuse and it will soak up any water sloshing around.

Gord.
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Old 03-24-2007, 02:52 PM   #54
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wow great build!

Earn money for your hobby easy click here ill help you get it setup to earn a potentionally huge income.
http://www.wealthyaffiliate.com/?a_aid=1oWevO4V
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Old 03-25-2007, 12:06 AM   #55
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Bill,
no matter what forum you're using, i Always enjoy (and learn from) your threads.
david
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:51 PM   #56
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Thanks for the comments guys.
Newcomer, any new Luft builds? Always like to see your work too.

Never used Testors chrome paint. The tailwheel has Testors alum paint, but is so small that irregularities are hard to see. I've found that mixing it well, and applying in straight strokes can give a good "brushed aluminum" effect. For cast aluminum parts, the spray would be more realistic.

As for a sponge, the bottom has so many individual bays, it would not be practical. What I have done is to add so many coats of waterproofing to make sure that I didn't miss anything, that I'm convinced that I could use it as a fish tank if I wanted to. Just have to seal the windows pretty well, that's all. I would want to seal them, since its where you would look in and see the fish.

Seabee Progress
I have the last piece of boom sheeting cut out and ready to apply at this point. I've kept the dope and Balsarite on the front of the workbench, so I don't forget to brush the inside of the panels before gluing them on. Of all my builds so far, I've put more effort into tweaking perfectly fitting panel seams, than any in the past. Takes a while to get them to fit like a glove.

In the pic, is also a hand drawing of the engine cover, since the 2-view I used did not have it. I'm looking forward to starting on it and the wing, since I've been on this fuse forever. After a number of fill and sand operations and a few sanded coats of primer, the fuse should be pretty straight now. Balsa sheeting does not lend well to levelling, since the glue seams are so much harder than the rest of the sheeting, and the filler is never exactly like the surrounding balsa. You pretty much have to give it a consistent base of primer, or some other sealer, from time to time as you go through the fill and sand process. Otherwise, every time you fill and sand to straighten an area, any area next to it that has already been sanded to perfection gets ruined in the process.

I may have stated this before in the thread, but this DHP filler I've been using seems better than the Hobbico or Goldberg that I've used in the past. Good stuff.

Bill


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Old 03-26-2007, 03:09 PM   #57
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Bill, are you going with the stock airfoil?
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Old 03-27-2007, 07:23 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Bill, are you going with the stock airfoil?
Pretty much. The foam core I am using is from a FlyZone Cub. I'll have to add the Horner tips onto the ends, which will extend the span to 51", but otherwise its the correct size and shape, and basically a Clark-Y.

I finished the last sheeting section today, and also added the fillets to the front window frame corners, and small ledges to the bottom of the frames, to retain the glass which will be installed from the inside. I also realized that I had not yet added these ledges to the bottom of the side windows, so that was done also, and they were blended into the bottom fillets. Details galore on this plane.

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Old 03-27-2007, 01:50 PM   #59
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Bill, the glass on the full sized was held in place by a rubber gasket,like old cars did.
If you let the student drop the plane onto the water from 10 feet, the windshielp pops out. Don't ask.

I flew two Sea Bees, one had the stock rounded wingtips, the other had the tips removed and flat tip plates added.

The one with the tip plates had a much better roll rate. Go figure.
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Old 03-27-2007, 05:04 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Bill, the glass on the full sized was held in place by a rubber gasket,like old cars did.
If you let the student drop the plane onto the water from 10 feet, the windshielp pops out. Don't ask.

I flew two Sea Bees, one had the stock rounded wingtips, the other had the tips removed and flat tip plates added.

The one with the tip plates had a much better roll rate. Go figure.
I've seen pics of the window detail, which looks similar to how car windows are installed. From reading about the plane, it was engineering with automotive assembly techniques. I guess the cabin must flex enough to let the gasket pop off of the flange, with a hard landing. I thought about painting the window perimeter black, to simulate the rubber gasket. Definitely too small for a sane person to attempt to build it with a real gasket, at this size. Thought about that idea too, for a second.

In the first pic, believe it or not, the side windows are temporarily installed after a few hours of trimming each one for a perfect fit. I thought a reflection would be seen in the pic, but they really are in there. They fit the entire frame area from the inside, which is considerably larger than the window cutouts. This will give a good area for gluing, without making a glue mess of the area in the window cutout. The only delicate operation will be gluing in the bottom, where the window retaining ledges are about 1/32" high. I'll need to run a small bead of glue along that area. The front windows will be heat formed to shape over a mold, since a flat sheet will not fit well or look correct.

The instrument panel and cover are now completed as an assembly. It fits neatly into place without glue, although I probably will glue it in permanently, at a later time. Its a slight comprimise between my original plan, and the full size instrument panel, since my T-beam window pillars are thicker than those on the full size plane. On the full size plane, the instrument panel cover runs flush along the inside of the window pillar and inner door panel. My door panels will also be thicker than the full size plane's, considering scale.

Bill


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Old 03-27-2007, 05:37 PM   #61
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The new instrument panel looks real nice.

The original full sized instruments look like the came put of a 49 Hudson though, very art deco.

Are you going to try to make the panel look chrome-ish?
Or are you going to make the panel look modern.

The tachometer was useless, there was this really long cable from the panel to the engine, at least 10 feet long.
Who would have thought that it would cause the tach needle to shake when it needed lubrication?

But it looked pretty.
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Old 03-28-2007, 06:49 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
The new instrument panel looks real nice.

The original full sized instruments look like the came put of a 49 Hudson though, very art deco.

Are you going to try to make the panel look chrome-ish?
Or are you going to make the panel look modern.

The tachometer was useless, there was this really long cable from the panel to the engine, at least 10 feet long.
Who would have thought that it would cause the tach needle to shake when it needed lubrication?

But it looked pretty.
I thought about using aluminized duct tape for the instrument panel. I have the dash assembly painted Panzer grey now, but I still may use the aluminum tape. Since I'm replicating a real plane, I may use what it has. I know the dash on it is a dark grey flat color. I cut out some Jtec instruments for the panel, since I can't find one to print, without the steering wheel (whatever they call that thing) in the way. This is pretty much the last panel that I'll make out of the Jtec set, since its pretty well pirated now. I heard you say that the instruments were a bit old fashioned, but I still decided against using the WWI instruments that are still on the Jtec label set.

I looked at that website again where I saw an old style dash, that I decided against using. It actually is a Seabee dash, according to the site, but its from a prototype version. It looked real old fashioned, like from a Model-T.

I guess they would have geared down the tach cable, but at 10' anything would bind-release-bind-release....
I imagine many have replaced it with an electronic tach with an inductive pickup coil.

Started sculpting the engine cover mold out of foam, since I decided to go with glass. At this point, its further along than in the pic, and has a coat of filler on it, ready to be sanded. For this mold, I'll wrap it real good with saran wrap, so I can use it again. I molded a Hellcat cowl that turned out great, since the resin fortunately set up before it ate the mold. The mold for that cowl is shot.

Bill


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Old 03-28-2007, 01:56 PM   #63
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Bill. the ,"steering wheel," is actually called a," control yoke".

The full sized had a fan up in the front of the cowl, to force outside air back over the engine.

The first Sea Bee I flew I ended up delivering it to Florida. I got the job because the owner couldn't wait until the plane was finished being repaired. He was planning to fly it to Florida himself.

While he was flying it with the mechanic that just completed some work on it, the fan assembly froze and broke.

The fan shot fan blades down through the cabin like shrapnel. No one got injured, but he decided he would like someone else to fly the plane about 25 hours and work the bugs out, before it went to Florida.

I think what really made up his mind for him was on that landing, the gear collapsed as well.
No damage, the plane slid along the runway and didn't hurt the pavement at all.

On the plus side, I got a job, and an adventure. The Sea Bee always had a few more tricks up it's sleeve.
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Old 03-28-2007, 06:31 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Bill. the ,"steering wheel," is actually called a," control yoke".

The full sized had a fan up in the front of the cowl, to force outside air back over the engine.

The first Sea Bee I flew I ended up delivering it to Florida. I got the job because the owner couldn't wait until the plane was finished being repaired. He was planning to fly it to Florida himself.

While he was flying it with the mechanic that just completed some work on it, the fan assembly froze and broke.

The fan shot fan blades down through the cabin like shrapnel. No one got injured, but he decided he would like someone else to fly the plane about 25 hours and work the bugs out, before it went to Florida.

I think what really made up his mind for him was on that landing, the gear collapsed as well.
No damage, the plane slid along the runway and didn't hurt the pavement at all.

On the plus side, I got a job, and an adventure. The Sea Bee always had a few more tricks up it's sleeve.
That term makes less sense than a "steering wheel".

I imagine the fan is only needed at low speeds, such as when "boating" in the water? I guess the blades must spin with a good few rpm? Maybe the plane could use a thick plate for a "scattershield" bellhousing, like manual transmission drag cars.

Was the gear not "locked" down. From what I see, the mechanism takes advantage of a "locking knee" effect in both up and down positions, with 2 separate retract cylinders, but I guess it would not hold, if the hydraulics do not hold.

Seabee Progress:
I detailed the insrument panel to somewhat resemble pics from the actual plane that I am replicating. I didn't make the lower gauges in the aluminum bezel plate rectangular, like the real plane, and the alum plate is a bit out of scale, like the gauges. I cut out the data plate from a pic of the real instrument panel, and made an attempt to arrange everything to resemble the full size plane that I'm modelling.
The little insrument panel locks in place quite well without even being glued, with a flange that locks onto the fuse former along the window pillar line, and a cut that slides over the front dash frame. Maybe I'll keep it removable and use it as a stash area in "smuggling operations" over the border.

The engine cover mold is moving along. I've been using thin coats of DHP filler, as I slowly sculpt it to shape. The filler is nice, even if it is all eventually sanded off, as it makes a good "guide" for sanding when at the nearly finished stage. Pretty much give the same "guide" effect as spraying 2 different color primer colors on top of each other. When you sand high and low areas, you see the color difference between the filler and the foam. Before final sand, I'll add a thin coat of filler to sand smooth, making a tougher mold surface than the foam.

The wing core will need the ends extended and shaped as Horner tips. Other than that, this FlyZone Cub wing is a good fitting core, with basically a Clark-Y airfoil. I stuck it on, just to see how it looks as an airplane, versus the boat I've been staring at for weeks.

Bill


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Old 03-29-2007, 02:43 PM   #65
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Bill, that panel looks great.

You should have been the mechanic on the Sea Bee, you spotted the problem in the landing gear system immediately.

Needless to say the mechanic didn't.

When the tail wheel retract piston leaked, the hydraulic pressure dropped. The main gear piston then moved back.
Causing the knee joint to move back from over center.
Causing the main gear to collapse.
Whew.

The mechanic got it after the second gear collapse.
That one was while I was taxiing up a ramp from the river.

That's when I found reverse on the prop to be very helpfull.

And this was the boring part, putting the plane back in the water was the really interresting story.

Your Sea Bee looks better and better, keep up the good work.
Paul
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Old 03-29-2007, 07:12 PM   #66
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Thanks for the comments Paul. Would be nice to have reverse. Maybe I should get one of those variable pitch prop setups and I could hover. Actually it would be pretty cool.

I thought I had this "loaf of bread" engine cover shaped to where I wanted it, and I ended up sanding off almost all the filler, for the second time. I think I'm finally happy with it. It was too wide, and the front did not curve in sharply enough. The 3-view outlines just aren't enough to make this thing from, and no matter how many photos you look at, it never seems to look quite right. I put a "paper roof" on the plane, so I could get a more realistic view to compare with the photos.

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Old 03-29-2007, 07:25 PM   #67
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Reverse is a wonderfully thing to have.

I think it's like having electric windows and door locks on your car, nice but not necessary.

The surprise to others factor is nice too.

Your cowl looks right, with the cowl seams and the front cover seam and grill it will look perfect.

It really looks like a Sea Bee now.
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Old 03-31-2007, 07:35 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Reverse is a wonderfully thing to have.

I think it's like having electric windows and door locks on your car, nice but not necessary.

The surprise to others factor is nice too.

Your cowl looks right, with the cowl seams and the front cover seam and grill it will look perfect.

It really looks like a Sea Bee now.
Thanks Paul. That cowl was tough. It is now about 2mm thinnner, and tapers in a hair more at the front, and is perfect. I clear coated and painted it with Testors, so it will have less chance of being eaten as a mold. It still will be covered with Saran wrap, before glassing over it. If I slit the bottom of the prop opening hole in the glass part, after it is made, I can slip it off the mold, and use it again. After all the effort, I plan to.
The engine cover seams really should be detailed on it also, for scale look. Maybe I'll make a functional flip open cover, like the full size. Definitely will have a wire grill.

Started working with the foam wing core. Its EPP from a FlyZone Super Cub. The foam will accept standard thick CA and activator, which is a bonus. I glued a perimeter frame around it, and will probably sheet the wing with 1/32" balsa. Looking closely in the pic, there is a rear mounting plate fabbed from balsa airfoil stock, that is glued into an area cut out in the back of the wing, and under the engine cover. This will provide a reinforced area for a hold-down bolt. The front of the wing will be plated, and locate to the plane with indexing pins. The perimeter frame will also create a wing with a longer chord, when sheeted over. This wing is basically like the Clark-Y on the full-size Seabee, but is quite thick, and the maximum camber point is pretty far forward. The dowel rod that is glued along the front, and a few stringers that will be added above the dowel rod as shims, will create a slightly different airfoil profile when sheeted over. The idea is to get it closer to a Clark-Y, while also extending the chord about 3/8", since it needs to be anyways, for correct scale.
The wing span needed to be extended with flat airfoil shaped plates on the end, which will be used to attach the Horner tips, which have not yet been made. This was also done to achieve a 51.5" span when completed. Some additional balsa formers will be made, which will be cut to mate against the wing panel end surfaces, where they taper off, and will glue to the end plates. These formers will, in effect, act as stringers also, for the sheeting to glue onto, filling in the void area. The work involved in modifying this core is worth it, since I already had it before I thought about this project and don't need to spend more loot, but more importantly because its almost perfect for the plane.

Bill


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Old 03-31-2007, 11:56 PM   #69
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Bill, what are you going to cover this with?

I read in one of your other posts, over at the other place, you painted "Microlite".
What kind of paint did you use?
What were the results?
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Old 04-01-2007, 01:08 AM   #70
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Hi Bill,

It's taken all this time for the people here to fix my account so I can post messages. It looks like I'm just in time because you're almost finished .
It's looking great, you have done a fantastic job and I look forward to seeing it in the air. Good to see you here too pd1.

Chris.
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Old 04-01-2007, 01:38 AM   #71
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Pardon (the intrusion) .... But I just cannot resist saying you guys have an incredibly interesting, infact incredibly fascinating thread here .
Bet there will be much celebrating !!!!
Cheers
Ray
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Old 04-01-2007, 02:10 AM   #72
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Hi Chris, welcome to WattFlyer. Nice to have you here as well.
Nice to have some help in pushing Bill along.
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Old 04-01-2007, 07:29 AM   #73
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Chris, I'll still be a good while, this thing moves along very slowly. Actually it may start to move along faster now, after the last major mod, which is what I had to do to make this wing core work, is now mostly finished. Thanks for posting. I was amazed to see all the interest today.

Up ya go, thanks for the comments. I like to build, and see, different stuff that we don't see everyday.

Paul, the Coverite is tricky to paint, as you have to paint it slooowly, or it will wrinkle, and then you have to very carefully heat shrink it with a hair dryer. Too much heat will pull seams. I started using it, since it is very light, and will paint well with a very light coating. I got into it for small EDF foamies, where weight is critical. I used Testors spray enamel and Testors Model Masters enamels on the Coverite. One nice thing about it is that you can easily stretch it over any surface, with low heat, which foam likes. My GWS 262 in my gallery is an example of a painted Microlite plane.
This plane will be a Monokote job.

Cutaway Ailerons
I got talked into ailerons at another site, which is a good thing, since I may as well go the extra effort at this point.

Looking at the wing extension framing in the first pic, I added an extra plate at the aileron hinge line, which is not glued to the first plate. I will cut through the sheeting between these two plates, after it is sheeted, and the aileron will separate from the wing, with a partial hinge plate on both the wing and the ailerons.

In the second pic, a hinge plate can be seen, that will be glued to the wing, at the hinge line, which will cover the exposed foam, and make a complete frame that will accept hinges. I also laminated an extra piece of 1/32" balsa behind this plate, where the inner most hinge will insert, since the hinge would rip out of a single layer of 1/32" balsa. A small recess was cut into the foam on the hinge line, to allow for this added laminated piece. Plates like the one just described will be added to the hinge face on the ailerons that are cut away also.

Looking again at the first pic, a balsa insert can be seen, that was inserted into a slot cut into the wing, which will be the aileron perimeter frame along the cutout on the wing. Glue was added only to the wing side of this part as it was slid in, so the aileron can "fall" away, after the sheeting is cut through at this line. A plate like this will need to be added to the aileron also, after it is cut away. The side of the aileron will be shaved down by the thickness of this plate plus a bit of clearance, so that the aileron will be the correct width for the cutout, when completed.

For what its worth, since its not often that folks modify a FlyZone Super Cub wing core this way, it did work well for extending the ends and adding ailerons to a foam core wing.
The additional effort of working ailerons into the wing extensions was fairly easy, since the parts only required a few perimeter plates to be added, after cutting the ailerons away from the wing, after sheeting the ends. The benefit is that the wing extension was sheeted as a single entity before cutting away the alierons, so that everything would be straight and true. I've learned the importance of building wings without warps, where both panels are symmetric from the center, in the past.

Finished the ailerons and cut hinge slots. (Pic 3)
4.5grams each is definitely better than using solid balsa.
The airfoil front profile is now closer to the actual Seabee. The bottom sheeting still needs to be added to the wing extensions.

Bill


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Old 04-02-2007, 08:50 AM   #74
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Working on the wing saddle and removable roof with skylight design. This stuff moves slooow. In the pic, there are 2 header plates made for the wing front dowel pin locators. The wing will have to be shimmed up to simulate the compressed height of the foam seal that will go under the wing, before drilling the dowel holes. The sealing scheme, and building the roof itself, will be a bit of work. Just making the 2 dowel pin plates, and tweaking the shapes was a few hours.

Two notched areas can be seen, looking at the cutout on the wing (an arrow from a pen marking is at the spot), where it locates onto the fuse. These areas will require fillets that will mate against the curved roof below. The pic of the real Seabee shows this small area on the top of the wing and near the front of the engine cover, which is painted the same blue color as the top of the wing. Just another example of all the little parts that need to be made.

Not in the pic, is some padding done to the roofline flange. I don't want to make a roof with a bunch of custom made dips, so I had to
straighten the flange surface by padding with hard, thin sheet balsa, and block sanding. This area is yet another area that needs to seal perfectly.

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Old 04-02-2007, 02:26 PM   #75
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Bill, You're right about sealing the roof hatch.

Transitioning from displacement taxiing to getting on the step, a lot of spray can go up.

That's why a lot of the Sea Bees had larger spray rails added.
Even with the wide spray rails water can shoot up over the wing.

After all this fine effort we wouldn't want to see the equipment get wet.

How are you going to mount the tip floats?
What are you going to make them out of?
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