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Old 06-11-2007, 02:42 PM   #151
Grasshopper
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Bill,

You're going to have to put that in a museum when you're done. I can't imagine actually sending that beautiful piece of work up in the air. And you just "threw in" a 190 for fun too. You're doing a beautiful job. You should give lessons to those of us that are more build challenged.

Tom
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Old 06-11-2007, 06:14 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
Bill,

You're going to have to put that in a museum when you're done. I can't imagine actually sending that beautiful piece of work up in the air. And you just "threw in" a 190 for fun too. You're doing a beautiful job. You should give lessons to those of us that are more build challenged.
I probably will have to stare at it for a good while, before I brave flying it.
My reccomended building method is to start the way I did. Start out doing Guillows conversions, balsa sheeting, iron-on covering and all. They may never fly worth a nickel, or even at all, but at least you get the building spirit going.

Bill
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Old 06-14-2007, 12:18 AM   #153
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Hey buddy: Always did like the look of those COX planes. Nice job and may you get much help to boost your rep points for this great thread!! I have never seen someone with soooooo much patience as you to bing us this great education you have shared with us!! Keep up the great work!, Scott.

Originally Posted by Bill G View Post
Trying to get back on this thing again, since I took a break to do a little Cox Wings 190. Keep realizing the Seabee will not cover itself. Since the toughest part is always getting started, I may have the motivation now to keep going.

Got the main fuse cabin covered now, which will still need blue striping, after the rest is covered. The junk seen on the blue is there since I haven't cleaned the covering grime off yet. Was actually easier to work the covering than I expected. Using Econokote for the white was a good choice, since it was much easier to work around the curved nose and the raised ribs. The raised ribs turned out pretty well, adding a nice touch of detail to the fuse. I'm now glad that I didn't decide to glue them on later, as it looks better with them seamlessly under the covering job.

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Old 06-15-2007, 06:13 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by ElectricFlyGuy View Post
Hey buddy: Always did like the look of those COX planes. Nice job and may you get much help to boost your rep points for this great thread!! I have never seen someone with soooooo much patience as you to bing us this great education you have shared with us!! Keep up the great work!, Scott.
Thanks Scott. I'm going to try to get back on covering this thing tonight. I had a BEC shutdown due to a motor lockup on my little 262. You know how that is. Can't rest or work on anyting else, until its all repaired.

Bill
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Old 06-15-2007, 09:23 PM   #155
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Slow progress, but should pick up, now that I have the fuse covered. Getting the trapped air out while covering has been a job, since you can't just push trapped air through the sheeting, when it has 30,000 coats of dope on it.

Pic2: Bet you can't do this?
I cut off a scrap of covering, and the point stuck straight into the carpet by my feet. It was standing straight up, but started bending over before I could get the camera.

Bill


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Old 06-15-2007, 10:03 PM   #156
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Bill, there is only one thing wrong with your pictures, there too dang small.

Is there anyway you can up the size so I can enlarge the pictures so I can see some detail?

The eyes are getting older.
Paul
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Old 06-17-2007, 07:04 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Bill, there is only one thing wrong with your pictures, there too dang small.

Is there anyway you can up the size so I can enlarge the pictures so I can see some detail?

The eyes are getting older.
Paul
Talk to Wattflyer, they're the ones who make the file size limit, and loaded this viewer that doesn't enlarge much. My file sizes are all saved right near the limit. One of the reasons folks go to that other place, and they can add descriptions there too. Yo do know that you have to click on the pics to enlarge them here at Wattflyer?

I've been fortunate that my eyes have weakened at distance. Under 5 feet I'm as good as a microscope. Glasses would drive me nuts for hands on work.

Window Glass
Well this plane cut me a break. I made all the side windows a while back, but though I would have to mold some curve into the front windows, to get them to fit properly. Not so, as the flat cutouts fit in just fine. I think the designers of the original Seabee worked out the body shape so that the glass could simply be curved, and not require complex molding along with the process.

I actually worked the covering into the window flange, since I wasn't sure if I was going to paint the window seal in, or not. The covering was trimmed right at the inside edge of the flange, since I wanted the windows to glue in well, since covering is a lousy gluing surface. Don't need them popping out of place. The windows were glued in well, as neatly as possible, but since some glue could be seen around the perimeter, I masked off the flange area and painted on the window seal with flat black. Looks more scale, since the full size plane has a black window seal.

The nose glass was good to get out of the way, since it is the last thing that I wasn't sure of how it would go. The list of things needed to complete is still pretty long though.


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Old 06-17-2007, 12:06 PM   #158
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Hi Bill, I knew the front windows were from flat stock, I also know they can pop out on hard landing in the water.

It just means you matched the original curves exactly.
Well done.

I use photoshop on my pictures and make the original photo about 15 to 20 inches wide, still at around 125 kb.

I think it fools the program and allows the picture to really expand when you click on the picture.

My eyes are working exactly opposite of yours.
I still can see things in the distance sharp.

But up close I have to use the glasses.
I really don't like glasses.

As always, you're doing a fantastic job.
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Old 06-18-2007, 07:00 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Hi Bill, I knew the front windows were from flat stock, I also know they can pop out on hard landing in the water.

It just means you matched the original curves exactly.
Well done.

I use photoshop on my pictures and make the original photo about 15 to 20 inches wide, still at around 125 kb.

I think it fools the program and allows the picture to really expand when you click on the picture.

My eyes are working exactly opposite of yours.
I still can see things in the distance sharp.

But up close I have to use the glasses.
I really don't like glasses.

As always, you're doing a fantastic job.
Thanks Paul. The window pillars and openings are as scale as possible, from the 2-view. The curved pillars were definitely worth the extra effort.
Doesn't sound too good to have windows popping out on hard landings.
Mine are overlapped with glue on the inside, to ensure they stay in there.
I imagine the seal is like some cars have used, a Chevette for example. The seal fits over the spot welded window frame seam, and then has another groove further out, for the window to be worked into. They probably made the window groove with too small of a rubber lip around it, to make the window installation into the groove easy.

Slow progress as usual, since these detail tasks are timetaking. I painted the dark blue rudder striping on, and only have the white top area to paint on now. Didn't think it would be too easy to have to mask it all off and paint, with the rudder already mounted on the plane. Making the ribbing placement scale made the striping a lot easier, since I could actually match the pattern with my reference drawing, rib for rib.

Next I can mount the elevator and rudder. The rudder will require that the lighting wires be soldered to the wiring harness in the fuse, before mounting. I have a string routed through the fuse tail, so I can snake the rear rudder light wire through. There's a light on the top and the rear of the rudder.

Not sure how I will run the fuse striping on the plane. May very well be done with decal trim. Its hard to get clean lines with mask and paint, and iron on is quite difficult too. I have decal trim, iron-on covering, and a dark blue paint that all match pretty well, so they can be used together.

I like this blue and white scheme, but was thinking, if I had gone with the "Man With the Golden Gun" movie's Seabee scheme, my pilot would have looked good. He actually does look like James Bond, with the part on the correct side of his head too.
Last pic is James' plane from the movie.


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Old 06-18-2007, 07:22 AM   #160
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Looking fantastic Bill, I'm extremely impressed. I wish I had the patience you have.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:08 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Chris F View Post
Looking fantastic Bill, I'm extremely impressed. I wish I had the patience you have.
The truth is I actually am one of the world's most impatient people.
The way I get these things done, is that I'm also horribly obsessive- compulsive.

Finished all the glass installation. If you can't see The glass, then that's a good thing.
Just need to paint on the rest of the black window seals.

If I were to ever document plans for one of these, I'd have to change the design a bit to make the tail feather assembly procedure a bit easier.
I had all the balsa spars and sheeting in place, and then had to work the rudder frame and corresponding spar notches into the rear of the sheeted fuse. I had originally planned to mount the rudder first, and then finish the sparring and sheeting, but that was before I decided to run 2 lights into the rudder. Making all this trickier, the wire for the rudder's tailmost light has to be constantly pulled taut, while gradually working the rudder in. Knowing what this would be like, I wisely decked the elevator and rudder mounting surfaces a while back, so they would mount straght and true, without tweaking.

At times in the past, I've slammed these tail areas together, while having to torqe the rudder and elevator, blasting glue into seams to build up gaps, while activating the hell out of it, all ending up with out of alighment, half-ass tail surfaces. I'm tired of rushing the job at this point, and have learned to slow down at this point. It easy to get into the bad habit of just wanting to get those parts on there as quickly as possible. If not done well, you get real sick of looking down at an elevator that is not straight with the fuse.

Looking closely at second pic, a very short lenght of the wire running from the rudder into the rear fuse can be seen. Also the point where the 2 light wires and the main feed can be seen, at the front of the rudder. This is where the slack is pulled. When finished, this wiring is tucked away, and the front rudder joint will be filled and blended in with the fuse. This blend work can also be seen in the rear, where a fill block was carved (pic 3) to fill the void behind the elevator. The last pic shows the area, after adding soft 1/32" sheet over the block, sanding it level, and filling the seams. All these little operations are what add hours to this build.
I can easily see a few more hours blending in the covering to the tail feathers, and painting the dark blue pattern down onto the fuse below the rudder.

Edit: Made the filler pieces for the front of the rudder. Had the front rudder spar been made to exact scale, it would have been thicker and not required the flared farings. Still, there would always be some work needed at a joint like this. Unbelievable, the time spent in carving 2 filler farings like these. I've used balsa filler, shaping as if it were clay, for stuff like this before, but its heavy in large chunks, and melts and dings, when iron-on is applied over it.

Threw everything together once again, for a motivational look at it all.
I emailed the pic to the owner of the real plane. Maybe he's a millionare, and will want to buy it for 20-30k or so.


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Old 06-21-2007, 04:12 PM   #162
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I'd like to see GWS or Alpha eventually come out with a very light foam version of the Seabee with detachable wheels and a water rudder option. A built up model of the Seabee like yours is only for OC guys like you and maybe me and a few others who happen to be fascinated with real thing.
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Old 06-21-2007, 04:17 PM   #163
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Wow...great project!

Paul

Former Formula Ford and F2000 Piloto

Thats my Dad and me in the avatar... he built mostly, I flew mostly... Miss You Dad!
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Old 06-22-2007, 08:58 PM   #164
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EC, boy would that be nice! GP just did the PBY, which I never believed anyone would do. Maybe this will be next. Heck, if I knew the GP was coming out, I may have not killed myself doing a Guillows PBY conversion. Still haven't flown it yet. At this point, I need to heat shrink the wings a bit, to correct slight panel warping. I just did this to a Piper Cherokee, that would not turn right AT ALL. That's not fun, so I know how important straigt wings are.
The built up version is certainly for OC folks. Good thing I didn't really know what I was in for at first, or I probably wouldn't have built it.

Foam version?:
I orginally had always planned to do a foam version of this plane. Part of what talked me into built-up, is that it would be a difficult shape to just TLAR and scratch out from foam. Usually I can come up with a workable foam concept, and then commence the snowstorm.
The engineering in this one just seemed overwhelming, to do a decent, "no plans-have at it", foam scratchbuild. After this build though, I have a million ideas for how to do one from foam.I could see GWS doing one, now that they have shown the kind of engineering and design innovation they have made in their 262 and 15. It actually could be made quite robust, since the cabin has a large overall size. I would make the interior much smaller, just for needed component room, and then the thick foam walls would make it quite strong. Carbon or glass rods could line the fuse halves, to strengthen the tail boom.

New Models:
I think we are seeing a good trend, that model companies are realizing that we don't need yet another Cub or P51. The sad thing is that folks say they want the "oddies", but don't buy them in numbers when they come out. The good thing is that I think they are starting to hit a brick wall with selling the current popular planes, and have seen the need to make the oddballs, even if they don't get the numbers they want. I think this is part of what happened with GWS. Part of the delay was the new factory, but the other was the fact that they could keep selling Beavers, P51s, ME109s, Zeros, and Spits. I think a large part of their business was repeat customers, who would simply keep replacing their GWS planes after mishaps. The new buyer market was decreasing from the ARF competition. I'm convinced they had to exhaust that market, before they needed the sales from new models.

Well after all that nonsense, I just hope we get some new oddball models out there, like the Seabee.


Racer Paul, thanks for the nice comment. Nice to hear from folks. I see the views, but don't know who too many of the people are.
I looked at your Project Globtrotter. Cool idea. I've had an idea for a long time, to fly a plane a mile or so at a time, with pilots on the same frequency stationed just close enough apart to see and take over the approacing plane. They could use walkie talkies or maybe even cell phones to coordinate the transmitter takeover, after verifying that the communications are working properly, of course.

Seabee Progress:
Would you believe I spent over 3 hours last night, just finishing the covering on the front rudder faring (yeah, I know, its like 1 square inch of area) and repainting the tiny area of the dark blue striping, that the covering patch covered over? (Hey I actually remembered for once, to end a long question with a question mark) I also masked and painted the top center boom stripe that continues from the front rudder spar, and the fuse area under the elevator that is dark blue, continuing from the rudder. It takes unbelievable time to mask off these detail areas for striping scheme.

Now that the dark blue striping on the rear of the plane is finished, I can decide if I'm going to use matching trim decal material to complete the rest, or paint it on. I probably use decal material, since the edges are so much cleaner. I used a blue paint that matches the decal dark blue.
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Old 06-23-2007, 01:17 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Bill G View Post
New Models:

Racer Paul, thanks for the nice comment. Nice to hear from folks. I see the views, but don't know who too many of the people are.
I looked at your Project Globtrotter. Cool idea. I've had an idea for a long time, to fly a plane a mile or so at a time, with pilots on the same frequency stationed just close enough apart to see and take over the approacing plane. They could use walkie talkies or maybe even cell phones to coordinate the transmitter takeover, after verifying that the communications are working properly, of course.
Bill,

I'll be following the build... just an awsome job!

Project Globetrotter IS a great idea!!!... but not mine! Good ole 'Stinkweed' started the whole shebang! Lotsa good folks helpin out too!

Whatch out for that Zap in the dark..LOL!

Paul

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Old 06-25-2007, 03:25 AM   #166
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Nice Job Bill ! I'm very impressed, should fly as good as it looks

rawy
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:01 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by rawy View Post
Nice Job Bill ! I'm very impressed, should fly as good as it looks

rawy
Thanks for the comments. I'm trying to get back on it. My club has pushed me to finish the second trainer I'm doing for them. They got these 2 half built donated trainers, built by a butcher. I don't like to belittle folks skills, but you gotta see these things.
If any of you have kids between the ages of 6 and 8, their building skills would definitely blow this guy's away.
I never met the builder, so I don't have to be nice. I think someone was trying to get like 2 bucks for them at a swap meet, so they ended up just donating them to our club.

Well I'm finishing the second one up, to get it out of here. Like they say, "Garbage In, Garbage Out".
I'm actually thinking of using various letters from old lettering kits and writing that slogan on the wing of the plane.

Bill
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:28 AM   #168
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The club's been pressing me to finish the half-done trainer they gave me, so I've been trying to get the pig out the door. Cutting into Seabee time.

Covered the ailerons, and decided that there's no way I'm going to work the covering down to the sheet surface, between the raised ribs. It would be a ton of work. The ribs can still be seen when covering across the ribs, although not extemely pronounced. It still gives the look of the ribbed sheetmetal on the full size plane, so it was worth the effort of adding all the ribs, versus just covering a plain sheeted wing. They actually are a bit more visible, than the lousy pic below would indicate.

On to covering the wings now.


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Old 07-10-2007, 05:08 PM   #169
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Default My Peashooter Still Hasn't Flown

Horizon replaced my DX-6 transmitter so I'm about ready to maiden the P-26. Yesterday, my ancient Aeronca Chief bit the dust on 72mhz Ch 13. I think it was a recurring tip stall problem and not an R/C thing but all these crashes make me think twice about comitting aviation with my pride and joy. It takes real guts to fly something that you have obsessed over for so long and fallen in love with. Electric scale models have special challenges i.e. cooling, speed control/servo count/battery pack and linkage, etc. I installed a Park BEC in the Peashooter in hopes of preventing "unexplained loss of control" crashes as I have experienced with other small scale models with three or more servos. There seems to be a trend of using flight battery packs or add-on switching type BEC's and not relying on " iffy" linear BEC's . If you haven't done so, recommend you install a Park BEC or UBEC in your magnificent Seabee project.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:53 PM   #170
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Default Suggested Foam ARF Seabee to Electrifly

I sent them an e-mail congratulating them on the PBY and asked them to consider producing a foam ARF Seabee around 48" w/s for moderate sized outrunner and maybe a 9-cell Nimh pack for balance. I suggested the the whole lower forward part of the fuselage could be solid foam and that the upper fuselage/window area be of clear plastic with framing factory painted. Window area could be removable for battery pack, etc. access, and with battery, etc. sealed in baggies for water flying. I further suggested that tip floats be breakaway and held on with Velcro and linkage to tail feathers could be by pull-pull. Ailerons would be optional and landing gear could be manually retractable. If I were experienced in foam model making I'd give it a try myself.
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:00 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by E-Challenged View Post
Horizon replaced my DX-6 transmitter so I'm about ready to maiden the P-26. Yesterday, my ancient Aeronca Chief bit the dust on 72mhz Ch 13. I think it was a recurring tip stall problem and not an R/C thing but all these crashes make me think twice about comitting aviation with my pride and joy. It takes real guts to fly something that you have obsessed over for so long and fallen in love with. Electric scale models have special challenges i.e. cooling, speed control/servo count/battery pack and linkage, etc. I installed a Park BEC in the Peashooter in hopes of preventing "unexplained loss of control" crashes as I have experienced with other small scale models with three or more servos. There seems to be a trend of using flight battery packs or add-on switching type BEC's and not relying on " iffy" linear BEC's . If you haven't done so, recommend you install a Park BEC or UBEC in your magnificent Seabee project.
Don't worry EC, I have planes that haven't flown after 2 years of building. The problem's me, not the equipment though.

A foam Seabee would really be nice. I think they would sell on the incredible uniqueness alone.

I've been taking a Seabee break for the purpose of, believe it or not, getting some planes flying that I built 2-3 years ago. Its about time eh?

I know about the obsess/maiden stress thing. I've been terrified to fly my Yak23, since I knew it would be hot, and if it didn't go well, it would probably be killed. Well I got it flying well after a lot of hassle, and thanks to the cushioning of 3 foot weeds on the test launch. Great flight this past evening, after making some adjustments from the maiden 2 days ago. Was looking forward to a few final adjustments and what do you know, the motor shattered its shaft magnet. Glided in safely, so I still have a plane. Can't complain I guess.

I missed all the pics that would have been closer.
You still can see the chrome reflecting off the setting sun though.


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Old 07-18-2007, 09:55 PM   #172
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Default P-26 Peashooter Maidens at Fairview Park Today

It flew like it was towing a banner, a little too slow but stable, no trimming needed. The AXI 2212/26, 9x5 GWS DD prop and Tanic 2200 3S lipo didn't have quite enough grunt for the 38 ounce auw and 350 sq inch wing area. The 6" diameter dummy Wasp and ring cowl plus rigging wires probably add a lot of drag. Motocalc Wizard said it was too heavy to fly and recommended a lighter 3S pack and 9x7 prop. ( It doesn't know about the dummy Wasp). Anyway I have a larger Scorpion 2215/22 outrunner that may get 'er flying at in a more authoritative manner, may try a TP Prolite 3S pack, couldn't hurt.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:11 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by E-Challenged View Post
It flew like it was towing a banner, a little too slow but stable, no trimming needed. The AXI 2212/26, 9x5 GWS DD prop and Tanic 2200 3S lipo didn't have quite enough grunt for the 38 ounce auw and 350 sq inch wing area. The 6" diameter dummy Wasp and ring cowl plus rigging wires probably add a lot of drag. Motocalc Wizard said it was too heavy to fly and recommended a lighter 3S pack and 9x7 prop. ( It doesn't know about the dummy Wasp). Anyway I have a larger Scorpion 2215/22 outrunner that may get 'er flying at in a more authoritative manner, may try a TP Prolite 3S pack, couldn't hurt.
Congratulations, E-Challenged.
Before going too crazy could you up the cell count to a four cell pack?

That would give a large boost in power without a lot of weight gain.
If the set up can take it.
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Old 07-29-2007, 04:49 AM   #174
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Default 4 cell "Barrier"

I dunno, that's almost as drastic as the switch to brushless and lipos. I might just try that. The Scorpion 2215 can handle 4S lipo and Phoenix 25 can handle 4S if using a switching BEC. I'm a little concerned that the motor being buried in the dummy radial engine might not get enough cooling even though the Scorpions are supposed to be able to take heat without meltdown better than other outrunners according to Innov8tive Products. I have yet to try the 11x7 prop and new Tanic 2220 3S that is in the mail. They might do the trick.

Update, I have ordered a larger 3008/32 Scorpion outrunner, an XCaliber 2220 3S 20 C lipo pack and a Scorpion 55 amp speed control. This setup should yield about 100 watts per pound with 12x6 GWS DD and APC 12x6 E props according to Lucien Miller, Mr Scorpion, which will fly the Peashooter with authority despite 6" dummy radial and speed ring prop blanking and drag issues. We'll see!!
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Old 08-06-2007, 06:35 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by E-Challenged View Post
I dunno, that's almost as drastic as the switch to brushless and lipos. I might just try that. The Scorpion 2215 can handle 4S lipo and Phoenix 25 can handle 4S if using a switching BEC. I'm a little concerned that the motor being buried in the dummy radial engine might not get enough cooling even though the Scorpions are supposed to be able to take heat without meltdown better than other outrunners according to Innov8tive Products. I have yet to try the 11x7 prop and new Tanic 2220 3S that is in the mail. They might do the trick.

Update, I have ordered a larger 3008/32 Scorpion outrunner, an XCaliber 2220 3S 20 C lipo pack and a Scorpion 55 amp speed control. This setup should yield about 100 watts per pound with 12x6 GWS DD and APC 12x6 E props according to Lucien Miller, Mr Scorpion, which will fly the Peashooter with authority despite 6" dummy radial and speed ring prop blanking and drag issues. We'll see!!
As of late, I wouldn't trust the BEC in any Castle ESC.

Bill
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