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Old 11-19-2005, 12:38 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Smaug View Post
PS - I'm going to have my wife take some digital video of my first flights, so you will be able to see how your advice helps, and maybe have a laugh or two, hehehe.
Smaug,

How goes the flying? Have you spread your dragon wings yet?

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Old 11-19-2005, 06:34 PM   #27
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Ed, it's going OK, though I haven't flown much in the last couple weeks. It's just been too windy & cold (20F!!). Cold, I can deal with. But 15 mph winds + gusts up to 25 or so are just too much for my poor little T-Hawk. It's going to be a long winter...

Nevertheless, I tried flying this morning. It didn't look that windy... But when I got it up there, it was being tossed around like a feather. I was lucky to have a good landing, and go home with everything in one piece.

Oh, and her videos came out horribly. She's a great wife, but has no knack for videography.

I'm still awaiting delivery of my EdgeRC wings: an Overlord and a Pocket Combat Wing. In the meantime, I'm building my GWS Corsair (brushless )and flying in FMS as much as possible.

I'm thinking that instead of another plane, the best bet might be to buy the Ikarus flight simulator. No wind or cold can keep me grounded then, and I have to admit, it seems a lot more realistic than FMS. (though that may be because I was able to use something that resembles a real transmitter more than a dual analog control pad. I'm not complaining though; it was cheap!)

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Old 11-19-2005, 09:19 PM   #28
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I use my regular radio with FMS. If you have one, you should get a cable to allow you to do that.

Quite a list of planes you have there.

With those kinds of wings, you need to look for slope soaring sites. T-hawks will sope nicely in 10-15 and maybe 20 mph winds. You might need to add some ballast.

I have sloped my aerobird challenger many times. Great fun!

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Old 11-20-2005, 04:47 AM   #29
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Well, you'll be happy to find out that I was able to get a few flights in with the ol' T-Hawk at dusk today. It was quite nice.

I don't have my real radio yet. It is on order with the wings. !@#$%

The throttle channel on the T-Hawk leaves a lot to be desired. It is more like a 4-speed than a true proportional throttle.

When I get the Optic 6, I'm going to look into USB cables to interface with FMS. (as I recall, there are sources in one of your beginner posts...) I just saw one on ebay for like $35, which seems like highway robbery.

I'm considering glueing some sort of sticks to the "mushroom" controls on my dual analog controller in the meantime.

Slope soaring is not bloody likely in my area. Any area that is not completely flat is that way because there are trees. I take that back, there's one sledding hill about a mile away that has taller trees on three sides, and a football field below the other. It's about 75 ft. high or something. If I do any soaring at all, it will have to be A) After I move somewhere with lumpier geography, or B) with a powered glider. (thinking of an Easy Glider Electric some day...)
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Old 11-20-2005, 06:59 PM   #30
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Ah, actually the elevator is not reversed. If you were sitting in a real plane then pulling back on the stick would give you up elevetor and pushing forward down elevetor. Your R/C transmitter is setup the same way pulling back on the stick is up and pushing forward down elevator.

Originally Posted by meegosh View Post
I have only flown a plane once, and that was numerous years ago. I have ordered a slow stick and will be flying for the first time sometime next week. I have found the simulators a good start on grasping the concept of flight, from what I remember from years ago. You seem like you understand that the controls for the elevator are reversed, ie up goes down, down goes up. Some of the newer transmitters have a servo reverse switch that can make it so that when you hit the stick up, your plane goes up. Not the opposite. So if that is what is confusing you then just get a Tx that will allow you to swith the servos.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask, I will try to help, and I am sure the others will too!
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Old 11-20-2005, 08:26 PM   #31
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starcad,

good catch on that earlier post. Push for down and pull for up is correct for the elevator.

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Old 11-23-2005, 11:31 PM   #32
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One more question: I've got the basics down. I'm tuned in such that I don't get mixed up when the plane's coming at me.

However, I've just read the article in the latest Model Airplane News called How to Land Like a Pro. It says that once you've got the wings level and you're on final approach, one should control elevation with the throttle and speed with the elevator. Furthermore, it says that you should keep aligned with the runway using only the rudder, and that the ailerons are just used to keep the wings level at this point.

As I said earlier, I'm trained now to react correctly with my right hand for when the plane's coming at me. I'm having a hell of a time getting my left (rudder) hand trained in a similar fashion. I just practiced on FMS for a good while, and made no progress at all.

Do you all steer with the rudder or ailerons when you're landing?

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Old 11-29-2005, 02:56 AM   #33
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Of course it depends on the plane. Not all of my planes have ailerons.

Also, I don't land on a runway, so alignmnet is not as critical.

Having said that, on an aileron plane, for final approach, ailerons are to keep wings level and rudder is for steering.

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Old 11-29-2005, 04:08 AM   #34
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Jeremy,

On a full-house airplane with landing gear and other such luxuries, one is well advised to do as the text said. I know from seeing photos that I do a sort of Tai Chi when I land, leaning and moving very slowly to get a rhythm.

Get on approach and in line, make sure your wings are level. You may have to crab a little with the rudder, but with practice you can hold that line and start easing the throttle off while giving a bit more up to hold level. This will alter the crab, and might very well require a little aileron correction too.

These things all happen at once, and frankly, making a clean landing on a true line is a wonderful and difficult thing unless circumstances are ideal. When I succeed, it's a great rush!

Alas, most of my planes don't have wheels, and my typical landing is to just pluck it from hover. Or, alternately, miss my catch and crash.


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Old 11-29-2005, 08:44 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Smaug View Post
One more question: I've got the basics down. I'm tuned in such that I don't get mixed up when the plane's coming at me.

However, I've just read the article in the latest Model Airplane News called How to Land Like a Pro. It says that once you've got the wings level and you're on final approach, one should control elevation with the throttle and speed with the elevator. Furthermore, it says that you should keep aligned with the runway using only the rudder, and that the ailerons are just used to keep the wings level at this point.

As I said earlier, I'm trained now to react correctly with my right hand for when the plane's coming at me. I'm having a hell of a time getting my left (rudder) hand trained in a similar fashion. I just practiced on FMS for a good while, and made no progress at all.

Do you all steer with the rudder or ailerons when you're landing?

Jeremy
To train your left hand, get the plane high and fly it arond using the rudder only. If there is some dihedral in the wings it will bank but it will be sluggish compared to the ailerons.

If the wing is flat you can yaw the plane around. You will be redirecting the thrust of the motor to make your turns. Weird but fun.

Do this enough and you will be able to switch back and forth with no problems.

And of course, that simulator can help too.

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Old 11-29-2005, 09:52 PM   #36
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Thanks Ed. It's so simple I hadn't thought of it.
I was trying to land, over & over, hehehe.

I'll try that on FMS tonight. I have access to all sorts of planes. None of my planes have both ailerons & rudder, so I should be jolly good at it by the time I need to do it.

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Old 11-29-2005, 10:23 PM   #37
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If none of your planes have rudder AND ailerons then you will NOT be doing what the instructions tell you to do.

Let's go back to basics.

Pitch
Roll
Yaw

On a plane with ailerons, they provide the roll.

On a plane with rudder only/dihedral in the wings, the rudder provides the roll by working with the wings. You have no isolated Yaw control.

If there are no ailerons, then the rudder is roll, not yaw and should be on the right stick, if you are flying mode 2, the standard in North America, there should be throttle only on your left stick.

ONLY if you have ailerons AND rudder can you practice what your article tells you because only then can rudder be used for yaw alone.

Your landing instructions are REALLY saying that roll control is only used to level the wings during landing. Yaw control is used to allign the plane. The document you are reading ASSUMES a 4 Channel plane. If you don't have a 4 channel plane, you can not do what that document describes.

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Old 11-30-2005, 01:23 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by aeajr
If you don't have a 4 channel plane, you can not do what that document describes.
I do get what you're saying. But either way, I'm using the rudder to do the final landing. I do understand how dihedral/rudder and ailerons work.

I can see it firsthand in FMS. On the Formosa, (or any other plane with no dihedral) rudder just yaws the plane. No bank. On the T-Hawk, it does a slight yaw at first, then the plane gently starts to bank afterwards.

Does the shape of the wing also have to do with the rudder causing a bank, or just whether it has dihedral or not? For example, would a plane with a symmetrical wing with dihedral bank with rudder input? Would a plane with flat-bottomed or undercambered wings but no dihedral bank with rudder input only?

From what I've read, it makes it sound like dihedral causes the rudder to cause bank, and symmetrical wings make it fly "symmetrically upside-down". But you don't generally see symmetrical or semi-symmetrical wing designs with dihedral. Also, most flat-bottomed wings have dihedral, so I wonder if these traits go hand-in-hand.
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Old 12-06-2005, 12:08 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
Let's go back to basics.

Pitch
Roll
Yaw

On a plane with ailerons, they provide the roll.

On a plane with rudder only/dihedral in the wings, the rudder provides the roll by working with the wings. You have no isolated Yaw control.

If there are no ailerons, then the rudder is roll, not yaw and should be on the right stick, if you are flying mode 2, the standard in North America, there should be throttle only on your left stick.

ONLY if you have ailerons AND rudder can you practice what your article tells you because only then can rudder be used for yaw alone.

Your landing instructions are REALLY saying that roll control is only used to level the wings during landing. Yaw control is used to allign the plane. The document you are reading ASSUMES a 4 Channel plane. If you don't have a 4 channel plane, you can not do what that document describes.
I've been flying a 2-channel HZ FB Commander II. Throttle on left stick and rudder on right stick. No idea what mode that might be called.

I have in the works two different new to me planes, one in two different configurations, and I am confused how best to set up and fly them so I don't get confused when switching from plane to plane and back.

1) The Slow Stick will be 3-channel, so I would assume throttle on left stick and rudder and elevator on the right stick. A friend let me fly his that is set up this way and it made sense at the time.

2A) The BeginAir with the Wing Dragon wing will be 3-channel, suggesting the same setup as for 1).

2B) BUT when I put the real BeginAir wing on it with ailerons, then it will be 4 channel, suggesting use Mode II. Going from 1) or 2A) to 2B) means suddenly moving the rudder from the right stick to the left. This seems like it would be very confusing, to say the least.

Any suggestions how to set up and fly these 3 to avoid confusion?
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Old 12-06-2005, 02:31 AM   #40
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Default Modes for R/C Flying

To Jim, first let me post the 4 standard R/C aircraft modes;
MODE 1 Left stick, Vertical-Elevator
Horizontal-Rudder
Right Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Aileron
MODE 2 Left Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Rudder
Right Stick, Vertical-Elevator
Horizontal-Aileron
Mode 3 Left Stick, Vertical-elevator
Horizontal-Aileron
Right Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Rudder
Mode 4 Left Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Aileron
Right Stick, Vertical-Elevator
Horizontal-Rudder
So there's many ways you can set your model up. If you're used to the rudder and elevator on the right stick, leave'em there. Put the ailerons on the left stick until you're used to using them. There's no law that says you HAVE to use Mode 2, Mode 4 is fine. It really all depends on what you're comfortable with and what port you plug the servos into. Receivers made for the U.S. market are commonly marked for Mode 2 but that's only a suggestion. Set it up the way YOU want to control the plane! Good luck! Ron
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Old 12-06-2005, 04:59 AM   #41
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Jeremy:

Complicated question.

First, shape of the wing does have bearing on "dihedral," but in more ways maybe than you suspect. But before we dig into that too hard, if you look around you'll notice war birds with semi-symmetrical wings and dihedral ... but they're usually low wing planes! The dihedral is not to make them into rudder-onlies, but to offset the instability of the low wing (not necessarily a problem -- a well designed low flat wing plane need not be unduly unstable).

Further, strictly speaking dihedral is not necessary for self-correcting and/or rudder maneuvering. A high wing will do that, even if straight, and even if symmetrical. But not enough to make a trainee happy.

Another interesting tidbit: a swept wing (such as a delta) will act as if it has some dihedral (but again, not as much).

All these things work together, but not all are required at all times. For example, the Stevens DiddleRod is a mid-wing design with severe undercamber and strong dihedral. It's very stable and flies only with rudder and elevator, and works great!

The short version is: wing shape, wing position and dihedral can all create a roll effect using just the rudder. Another factor: fuselage side area. On a high wing plane, the fuse side area will also create a roll effect.

Okay, enough already.


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Old 12-13-2005, 03:13 PM   #42
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One thing I learned was When the plane is COMING TOWARD you always "FLY TO THE LOW WING". If you try to think left and right close to the ground you will usually crash. If the LEFT wing starts to drop, move the stick to the LEFT. If the RIGHT wing starts to drop move tne stick to the RIGHT. This will get your wing back to level without thinking about left or right whick are reversed when the plane is COMING TOWARD you.

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Old 01-20-2006, 05:02 PM   #43
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The information Ed posted earlier in this thread with links to all his explanations looks like exactly what I need as a noob to electric flight and RC airplanes. It appears however that the website www.rcezine.com is no longer available. Does anybody know if these articles can be found anywhere else?

Also, if you have a favorite book you can point me to that would help explain the basics of RC Airplanes, terminology and theory I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to educate myself to this hobby.
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Old 01-20-2006, 06:34 PM   #44
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Default The Book

Start to finish, this book will do the job:

http://www.stevensaero.com/shop/prod...cat=262&page=1


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Old 01-20-2006, 09:50 PM   #45
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Default Crosswind Landings

Crosswind landings with a 4 channel plane.
I read some pretty wild stuff about crosswind landings in this forum. Well unless you have 4 channels just donít do it.Itís that simple.Land upwind. With 4 channels it isnít easy but it can be perfected. This will take practice.
What you have to know.
The ailerons cause the airplane to bank.So moving the stick left causes the plane to bank left. That causes the plane to slip to the left.Initially the nose will yaw to the right a small amount. Then it will follow around to the left thereby starting a left turn.So to keep this awkward event from happening we use left rudder at the start of the turn to keep the nose from yawing to the right and we can produce a coordinated turn. What does this have to do with landing crosswind? Nothing!
It explains what the ailerons and the rudder really do.Now hereís how a 4 channel plane makes a nice crosswind landing.
What you have to do.
Youíre flying comfortably above the stall speed.While youíre still high enough to have time to make these adjustments line the plane up with the runway.Keep it over the center of the runway
WITH THE AILERONS. Keep it pointed straight down the runway WITH THE RUDDER.This is called cross controlling.Letís say the wind is comming from the right. The stick will be leaned to the right.(into the wind) Causing the plane to bank and slip to the right.But after it yaws left a bit it will want to turn to the right so to keep it from turning right you apply enough left rudder to keep it pointed straignt down the runway.Now the plane is banked to the right but left rudder is keeping it from turning. By continuing to cross control untill touchdown you can reduce speed, flair, even stall, and a perfect touchdown is possible. I hope this is of some help.
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Old 01-20-2006, 11:46 PM   #46
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Exclamation Go fly...

Some of you guys have WAY too much time on your hands. Go put on a coat, and fly! These posts are monsterous... and I thought I was bad

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Old 01-21-2006, 08:41 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by TManiaci View Post
Some of you guys have WAY too much time on your hands. Go put on a coat, and fly! These posts are monsterous... and I thought I was bad
That was shortfellow's first post to the forum, and HE'S criticized as having too much time? One could argue that HE is not the one with too much time, hehehe.

Also, it is quite commendable that he would try to actually help someone with his first post. Perhaps he noticed that this thread is sticky, and figured it would be worth the time, since it would stay for newbies to see and learn from.

As for myself, TManiaci, I plan to get my coat on and go fly in the snow as soon as it's light out. TwinStar II + Rise Off Snow = FUN.

I don't consider myself a newbie any more, thanks to threads like this.

Cheers!
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Old 01-22-2006, 03:46 AM   #48
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Thanks jeremy Z. I had no idea that someone would resent my posting.
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Old 01-22-2006, 03:05 PM   #49
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I think he was just teasing, so don't sweat it gents!! Welcome to the site shortfellow!!

Take care and thanks for posting at WattFlyer!!

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Old 03-17-2006, 06:35 PM   #50
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Default Modes....

A small comment:

If you're a total noob pick the mode everybody in your club uses: That way when you get help & instruction they will be used to your Tx setup.

Just my 2c...




Originally Posted by Sky Sharkster View Post
To Jim, first let me post the 4 standard R/C aircraft modes;
MODE 1 Left stick, Vertical-Elevator
Horizontal-Rudder
Right Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Aileron
MODE 2 Left Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Rudder
Right Stick, Vertical-Elevator
Horizontal-Aileron
Mode 3 Left Stick, Vertical-elevator
Horizontal-Aileron
Right Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Rudder
Mode 4 Left Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Aileron
Right Stick, Vertical-Elevator
Horizontal-Rudder
So there's many ways you can set your model up. If you're used to the rudder and elevator on the right stick, leave'em there. Put the ailerons on the left stick until you're used to using them. There's no law that says you HAVE to use Mode 2, Mode 4 is fine. It really all depends on what you're comfortable with and what port you plug the servos into. Receivers made for the U.S. market are commonly marked for Mode 2 but that's only a suggestion. Set it up the way YOU want to control the plane! Good luck! Ron

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