How do I fly, exactly?

[RacerPaul]

Originally Posted by stevecooper

airhead:: I fly alone alot and it sucks sometimes ( sometimes it's great) I started a kids RC club a dozon years or so back an have had over 40 kids from the area ( 99%, underprivledged,) and what a bunch fun they are , two of my little bub's dads were in my club when they were kids! back on the subject, Always go nose heavy on the C.G. when teach'in kids as they pull out better than they recover from stall'in and it's better for them to land fast than upside-downzee, I go'in to try out thumb'in- forefinger control out on some of the kids this weekend, which around here shall for ever be dubbed after my bub FEZZ as FEZZ CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! your bub steve

Steve,

You're a good bub!

Paul

[Sam_K]

Originally Posted by Broken Balsa

I started flying r/c models in 1961 or 62. In all those years I have only seen one person pick up a transmitter and fly a plane cold turkey and he designed the Lance Air. I still cannot believe he did it. Please listen to the gentlemen who tell you to get help from an instructor. That person with a buddy box will make the hobby enjoyable and most likely a life long love affair. Many people have tried it on thier own only to fail and throw the remains in the trash can or in a back room at home to be forgotten. This is not whats its all about. You would have to live in a very remote area not to have a flying club with in driving distance. These folks are in it usually for the long hawl and like all who love thier hobby cannot wait to pass it on to some one else. Go there, ask questions and you will be supprised at the response you will get. Just like on this forum there will be those there who cannot wait to help you learn the right way and you will enjoy the hobby the rest of your life. I did and I still do...Ron

While I certainly appreciate that this is good advice, it is not the only way. I am well on my way to being a confident RC flyer and I have never had any 1 on 1 instruction from another RC flyer. (EDIT: And I have not destroyed any planes yet either)

I have recently just started in RC and I don't personally know anyone else who is into it and I don't beloing to a club. I have a Silverlit X-Twin (Air Hogs Aero Ace) that I have done about 20 hours of stick time on, but I quickly outgrew it and yearned for a real RC plane.

While I planned my big purchase I flew somewhere between 5 and 10 hours on the FMS simulator using a PC Joystick.

I then bought a Multiplex Easy Star and a Spektrum DX7. The first time I threw that plane in the air was the first time I had ever used a real TX (I hadn't got the sim cable for the DX7 at that stage). I guess the time spent on the X-Twin and FMS with the PC Joystick must count for something as I flew for half an hour on my maiden flight without crashing and 1 of the three landings I did on that day was smooth as silk. (The other two were a bit rough but were not crashes)

To this day I have a total of 3hrs and 40 minutes flight time on the Easy Star (I log all my flights) and in that time I have had only 2 rough landings (touched the wing tip and cartwheeled) and only 1 real crash on a final approach when flying in way too much wind. (Sudden gust of wind pushed the nose down as I was flying low over some trees, I panicked, overcorrected, stalled into a wing over and hit a tree)

For me, my path to confident piloting has been as follows.

Step 1: Buy an Air Hogs Aero Ace / Silverlit X-Twin and fly (and crash) the crap out of it. This is how I bedded down the ability to fly towards myself without getting disoriented. These things are dirt cheap and virtually unbreakable, there is no reason not to do this, besides they are a lot of fun!

Step 2: Read EVERYTHING you can find on the Internet about flying RC planes. I spent over 2 months doing this before I finally had my own plane to fly and I learnt A LOT in that time. It's a good way to kill time while you are planning and saving for your purchase.

Step 3: Practice with a simulator such as FMS. Obviously using your real TX is the best but using a PC joystick or even the keyboard is still wothwhile! Find a beginners model and practice flying towards youself and landing (both at once). Do this again and again until you can do it easily without any frustration.

Step 4: Buy a plane that is built for beginners, is easy to fly and can bounce back easily from a crash. This is the most critical step and will ultimately determine your success or failure. The Parkzone Supercub and Multiplex Easy Star are both well regarded as rugged beginners planes.

Step 5: For your first few flights, find the biggest, flattest, most treeless possible area you can find. I would say a minimum of 4 sports fields square and that is not an exaggeration. Also, just as important, don't fly if it's even slightly windy!

That's about it, the rest is up to you. If you practice with a beginners model in FMS you will know wether or not you are ready to fly your real plane. If FMS is frustrating to fly, then you are not ready. Can't land the plane reliably in FMS? You won't be able to do it in real life either. When you are cruising around comfortably in FMS and can land several times in a row without problems then you are ready to take a shot at the real thing.

[Stan-the-Man]

Originally Posted by rcers

Without an instructor, you should buy about 5-10 airplanes. You will go through them quickly!

There are likely 10k+ RCers in Chicagoland. Go to a local field and get some help! Ask someone here......get HELP!

If you just can't do that....spend hours on a sim. They help a great deal.

Good thought about the using a simulator...

Another, thought, too, if you don't mind... I agree about having to buy the planes...

If you don't have a trainer, or can't find one, and decide to make a purchase of a good plane to start with... I have bought one HobbyZone Super Cub to my two Firebird Phantoms and four Aerobird 3's. The Super Cub has my beginner vote. It may cost a little more, but in my case, it has outlasted all the others, and out performed them, to boot. For a readily available RTF (Ready to Fly) model for starters or returnees, all I can say is "It has worked for me". My first one is still flying with a chipped left wing, cracked engine cowling, tilting rear rudder, and missing wing struts... and a pilot that may be 100 yards short of the runway.

[Stan-the-Man]

Originally Posted by AEAJR

Whether you have a coach or you are trying to learn to fly on your own, you
will need to be mindful of these six areas if you are going to become a
successful RC pilot. After two years of working with new flyers at our club,
and coaching flyers on the forums, there are a few things I have seen as the
key areas to stress for new pilots. Some get it right away and some have to
work at it. They are in no particular order because they all have to be
learned to be successful.

WIND
Orientation
Speed
Altitude
Over Control
Preflight Check

1) Wind - The single biggest cause of crashes that I have observed has been
the
insistence upon flying in too much wind. If you are under an instructor's
control or on a buddy box, then follow their advice, but if you are starting
out and tying to learn on your own, regardless of the model, I recommend dead
calm to 3 MPH for the slow stick and tiger moth type planes. Under 5 MPH for
all others. That includes gusts. An experienced pilot can handle more. It
is the pilot, more than the plane, that determines how much wind can be
handled.

The wind was around 10 mph steady with gusts to 12. That was strong enough
that some of the experienced pilots flying three and four channel small
electric planes chose not to launch their electrics. This new flyer insisted
that he wanted to try his two and three channel parkflyers. Crash, Crash,
Crash - Three planes in pieces. He just would not listen. Sometimes you just
have to let them crash. There is no other way to get them to understand.

Many parkflyers can be flown in higher winds by AN EXPERIENCED PILOT. I
have flown my Aerobird in 18 mph wind (clocked speed) but it is quite exciting
trying to land it.

Always keep the plane up wind from you. There is no reason for a new flyer to
have the plane downwind EVER!


2) Orientation - Knowing the orientation of your plane is a real challenge,
even for experienced pilots. You just have to work at it and some adults have
a real problem with left and right regardless of which way the plane is going.
Licensed pilots have a lot of trouble with this one as they are accustomed to
being in the plane.

Here are two suggestions on how to work on orientation when you are not
flying.

Use a flight simulator on your PC. Pick a slow flying model and fly it a lot.
Forget the jets and fast planes. Pick a slow one. Focus on left and right
coming at you. Keep the plane in front of you. Don't let it fly over your
head.

FMS is a free flight simulator. It is not the best flight sim, but the price
is right and it works. There are also other free and commercial simulators.

FMS Flight simulator Home Page
Free download
http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html

Parkflyers for FMS
http://gunnerson.homestead.com/files/fms_models.htm

The links below take you to sites that provide cables that work with FMS. If
your radio has a trainer port, these cables allow you to use the trainer port
on your radio to "fly" the
simulator. This is an excellent training approach.

http://www.allthingsrc.com/webshop/
http://www.simblaster.com/
http://www.customelectronics.co.uk/

An alternative is to try an RC car that has proportional steering. You don't
have to worry about lift, stall and wind. Get something with left and right
steering and speed control. Set up an easy course that goes toward and away
from you with lots of turns. Do it very slowly at first until you can make
the turns easily. Then build speed over time. You'll get it! If it has
sticks rather than a steering wheel even better, but not required. Oh, and
little cars are fun too.


3) Too much speed - Speed it the enemy of the new pilot but if you fly too
slowly the wings can't generate enough lift, so there is a compromise here.
The key message is that you don't have to fly at full throttle all the time.
Most small electrics fly very nicely at 2/3 throttle and some do quite well at
1/2. That is a much better training speed than full power. Launch at full
power and climb to a good height, say 100 feet as a minimum, so you have time
to recover from a mistake. At 100 feet, about double the height of the trees
where I live, go to half throttle and see how the plane handles. If it holds
altitude on a straight line, this is a good speed. Now work on slow and easy
turns, work on left and right, flying toward you and maintaining altitude.
Add a little throttle if the plane can't hold altitude.


4) Not enough altitude - New flyers are often afraid of altitude. They feel
safer close to the ground. Nothing could be more wrong.

Altitude is your friend. Altitude is your safety margin. It gives you a
chance to fix a mistake. If you are flying low and you make a mistake ....
CRUNCH!

As stated above I consider 100 feet, about double tree height where I live, as
a good flying height and I usually fly much higher than this. I advise my new
flyers that fifty feet, is minimum flying height. Below that you better be
lining up for landing.


5) Over control - Most of the time the plane does not need input from you.
Once you get to height, a properly trimmed plane flying in calm air will
maintain its height and direction with no help from you. In fact anything you
do will interfere with the plane.

When teaching new pilots I often do a demo flight of their plane. I get the
plane to 100 feet, then bring the throttle back to a nice cursing speed. I
get it going straight, with plenty of space in front of it, then take my hand
off the sticks and hold the radio out to the left with my arms spread wide to
emphasize that I am doing nothing. I let the plane go wherever it wants to
go, as long as it is holding altitude, staying upwind and has enough room. If
you are flying a high wing trainer and you can't do this, your plane is out of
trim.

Even in a mild breeze with some gusts, once you reach flying height, you
should be able to take your hand off the stick. Oh the plane will move around
and the breeze might push it into a turn, but it should continue to fly with
no help from you.

Along this same line of thinking, don't hold your turns for more than a couple
of seconds after the plane starts to turn. Understand that the plane turns by
banking or tilting its wings. If you hold a turn too long you will force the
plane to deepen this bank and it will eventually lose lift and go into a
spiral dive and crash. Give your inputs slowly and gently and watch the
plane. Start your turn then let off then turn some more and let off. Start
your turns long before you need to and you won't need to make sharp turns.

I just watch these guys hold the turn, hold the turn, hold the turn, crash.
Of course they are flying in 10 mph wind, near the ground, coming toward
themselves at full throttle.

6) Preflight check - Before every flight it is the pilot's responsibility to
confirm that the plane, the controls and the conditions are correct and
acceptable for flight.

Plane - Batteries at proper power
Surfaces properly aligned
No damage or breakage on the plane
Everything secure

Radio - Frequency control has been met before you turn on the radio
A full range check before the first flight of the day
All trims and switches in the proper position for this plane
Battery condition is good
Antenna fully extended
For computer radios - proper model is displayed
All surfaces move in the proper direction

Conditions - No one on the field or in any way at risk from your fight
You are launching into the wind
Wind strength is acceptable ( see wind above )
Sunglasses and a hat to protect your eyes
All other area conditions are acceptable.

Then and only then can you consider yourself, your plane, radio and the
conditions right for flight. Based on your plane, your radio and local
conditions you may need to add or change something here, but this is the bare
minimum. It only takes a couple of minutes at the beginning of the flying
day and only a few seconds to perform before each flight.

If this all seems like too much to remember, do what professional pilots do,
take along a preflight check list. Before every flight they go down
the check list, perform the tests, in sequence, and confirm that all is right.
If you want your flying experience to be a positive one, you should do the
same. After a short time, it all becomes automatic and just a natural part of
a fun and rewarding day.

I hope some of this is useful in learning to fly your plane.

I left this quote in it's entirety so beginners will have a better chance to wander upon it. Good stuff.

You even explained away my crash two nights ago with my AB3... holding the plane in a wide turn with a good head breeze. She dove into the ground beautifully, and didn't bat an eyelash! Darn, how I wanted to blame the plane!

Sincere thanks. Of course, I learned the hard way a little late, but it's nice to know why.

[Stan-the-Man]

How Do I Fly, Exactly?

I find a tall cliff, extend my arms, and have AEAJR, Coop, Monk, Elfi, or various other volunteers give a push... into the wind, of course.

The answer: "Not well." I need new batteries, Monk's bananas, and one of Coop's famous paint jobs.

Sorry, trying to fly with dead batteries for the second time this week, I'm in that kind of mood this evening. Grrrrrrr. And it's all the plane's fault!!!!

[CrashKing]

Hi guys, I'm new here and a rank beginner at R/C flying. I flew control-line and dabbled in free-flight back when R/C meant rudder-only and rubberband escapements for the non-wealthy, digital proportional was in it's infancy, and no-one had yet succeeded in flying an R/C helicopter. I got interested in R/C a couple of years ago and now have an Easy Star which I can barely manage to keep from crashing on a good day. I have several hundred hours of flight time in "real" airplanes, a commercial pilot license, instrument and multi-engine ratings, and flight instructor certification, and I don't think any of that does a bit of good when it comes to flying R/C. It's just a totally different thing, like typing and playing the piano: you use your fingers for both but that's about the only similarity. I definitely believe that a beginner should start out with a slow and stable plane that basically flys itself once trimmed correctly and only needs minor control inputs for altitude and directional changes. I'm sure there are people with fast reflexes and great hand-eye coordination who can learn on a ducted fan flying wing model. Student pilots have been known to buy Bonanzas and Mooneys and even twins and get their private pilot licenses in them, too, but it's not the best way. Dealing with retractable gear and cowl flaps and controllable pitch props and a panel jammed with avionics can be very distracting when you are trying to learn basic aircraft control. I'm dreaming about that 1/10th scale B-58 with 4 ducted fans and 8 channels, but meanwhile I'm having lots of fun with my Easy Star (and I could install a big brushless motor and clip the wings if I get bored....).

[Grasshopper]

Very insightful post Crashking,

I'd love to see an RC B-58 Hustler. I built a plastic model version of it when I was a kid. You rarely ever see them.

[Stan-the-Man]

Originally Posted by CrashKing

Hi guys, I'm new here and a rank beginner at R/C flying. I flew control-line and dabbled in free-flight back when R/C meant rudder-only and rubberband escapements for the non-wealthy, digital proportional was in it's infancy, and no-one had yet succeeded in flying an R/C helicopter. I got interested in R/C a couple of years ago and now have an Easy Star which I can barely manage to keep from crashing on a good day. I have several hundred hours of flight time in "real" airplanes, a commercial pilot license, instrument and multi-engine ratings, and flight instructor certification, and I don't think any of that does a bit of good when it comes to flying R/C. It's just a totally different thing, like typing and playing the piano: you use your fingers for both but that's about the only similarity. I definitely believe that a beginner should start out with a slow and stable plane that basically flys itself once trimmed correctly and only needs minor control inputs for altitude and directional changes. I'm sure there are people with fast reflexes and great hand-eye coordination who can learn on a ducted fan flying wing model. Student pilots have been known to buy Bonanzas and Mooneys and even twins and get their private pilot licenses in them, too, but it's not the best way. Dealing with retractable gear and cowl flaps and controllable pitch props and a panel jammed with avionics can be very distracting when you are trying to learn basic aircraft control. I'm dreaming about that 1/10th scale B-58 with 4 ducted fans and 8 channels, but meanwhile I'm having lots of fun with my Easy Star (and I could install a big brushless motor and clip the wings if I get bored....).

*******************************
We're glad you're here. Welcome to Wattflyers... We hope you brought along a good sense of humor... It helps us cope with our techniques, or lack of them.

If you're looking for a good plane to get accustomed to RC, and enjoy more relaxed flying with less need for fast reflexes, many of us recommend the HobbyZone Super Cub for stability, control, size, and plain fun. (pun intended) It's available at HobbyZone for about $159.00, sometimes offering a spare battery, plus shipping, or www.diversionhobbies.com for about $120.00 delivered, no spare battery, and shipping may vary per state. (I'm not in sales or receiving any reimbursement, it's just the latter will not be undersold.)

If you're into ailerons, many opinions will vary. The PZ T-28 is currently a good seller as an RTF (Ready-to-Fly) model. For advice, just ask our group and you will receive many views and much knowledge on many topics.

You seem to have an extensive aeronautical background which should prove interesting to us, as well.

If we can be of any assistance, we have bands of merry men and women ready to pounce at a moments notice.

Have a great time. That's why we're here.

[CrashKing]

Thanks for the advice, Stan and Grasshopper. I did consider a J-3 Cub, but read somewhere that the Easy Star was probably the best trainer for a beginner (and less likely to break props on hard "landings"). I actually bought a Beech Staggerwing almost-scale model first, because it looked cool (and was cheap). I imagined that my flying experience would enable me to bypass the usual learning phase and just go out and do a ground takeoff followed by a vertical 8 point roll, then some inverted flight, etc. Well, the first flight did have vertical and inverted components to it, but not quite the way I imagined. Are short-coupled biplanes with stubby wings, no dihedral and no ailerons really flyable? If your 8 year old neighbor with no experience flew one of these things perfectly the first time, I'd rather not hear about it. LOL! One of the biggest problems I'm having is getting used to the twin stick transmitter controls. This is just completely weird and un-natural to me after flying full-size airplanes. I still have to think about which stick controls what I'd buy one of those cheap 3 channel single stick transmitter systems, but then I'd have to learn the twin stick thing anyway if I decided to upgrade to better equipment and more channels later. Like every hobby I've ever taken up, there's much more to this R/C flying than meets the eye.

[stevecooper]

bubStan::www.diversionhobbies.comI checked um out and at first they pricey but if you go to check-out and the price goes WAY down, thanks for the link my bub, I go'in shop'in! your bub( got ten bucks, and I ain't scared)steve

[Air Trucker]

welcome crashking. I to started with En easy star, then a minimag, twin star 2 now and gemini. I to had a bit of time with it in the start nbut I felt flying past help me to so what. I started with pipers and work ed up to warbird tag. 25,p51 etc. It just practice the more you fly r/c the better you get. And the easystar is great airplane to start with. Crash9 has two fpv stars with 450 I think brushless e-flight what a hot rod. Fly with pride Max

[Alpea42]

Hey crash if R/C is completely foriegn to a commercial rated full scale pilot .Would you say full scale is also impossible to an R/C pilot .I like to fly Microsoft Flight Sim.#10 and have flown it best from the R/C perspective

[CrashKing]

Learning to fly full-size aircraft would be no more difficult for an R/C pilot than for anyone else; they would just have to learn to do it, like I'm having to learn to fly RC. Actually, good eyesight and reflexes and coordination are an advantage in learning either, and the R/C pilot would at least already understand the basic flight principles of lift, angle of attack and stalls, banking to turn, control functions, etc. They really are two different things though; when flying a plane from inside it you see everything but the airplane and can feel what's happening as it happens.
R/C is entirely visual; there's no feedback through the controls and you only know what the plane is going to do after you see it happen. (At least that's how it is with me; I'm sure good flyers know exactly what their plane is doing without even thinking about it. But I suck at video games, too). BTW, for a look at a GREAT pilot, go to YouTube and search for "Bob Hoover aerial suite 3". This guy does stuff that I wouldn't believe if I hadn't seen it.

[Alpea42]

I've seen Bob Hoover fly his twin engine Aero Commander( I think ) at air shows ( it was El Toro Marine Corps. Air station) many years ago .But i thought he met his maker in that plane a while back.The best trick I remember him doing is a low altitude slow roll with one engine feathered.Heck the both engines feathered and 2 min. of stunts and dead stick landing on that video was even better.Everytime I go to U tube I end up watching a 1/2 hour of aviation video

[RacerPaul]

Originally Posted by Alpea42

I've seen Bob Hoover fly his twin engine Aero Commander( I think ) at air shows many years ago .But i thought he met his maker in that plane a while back.The best trick I remember him doing is a low altitude slow roll with one engine feathered

...he does that slow roll while pouring (ahem) iced tea from a pitcher into a glass on the top of the instrument panel... awesome!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp2Uc...eature=related

[Alpea42]

Yeah Bob Hoover was the MAN

[Air Trucker]

The last time I saw Bob he was still alive and well but retired from flying.

[Led Zeppelin]

Dear participants in the forum, first of all I would like to thank you for sharing your experience with unskilled pilots like me. I’ve been reading your tips for few weeks now and they have been really helpful when I fly my Super Cub. I have five questions drawn from my recent experience and I’ll be very thankful if you could give me some tips:

1) After hand-launching, my Cub tends to fly in clockwise circles without any input on my behalf. This continues even after trimming it (sliding the trim all the way to the left). How can I correct this if the trimming does not help? Does this happen because of strong side-winds or because the vertical stabilizer needs to be fixed (thugh it looks perfectly vertical to me)?

2) Sometimes when hand-launching the plane into the wind it tends to climb in a very steep almost ‘unnatural” trajectory as if it is going to make a loop by itself. I suppose this extreme lift is caused by gusts of front wind. Should I live the Cub to climb at this steep rate or should I rather limit its angle of climbing by reducing the throttle a notch or slightly pointing down its nose?

3) How to approach a situation where I launch the plane thinking that the wind conditions are calm (they look so on the ground) but it turns out that the weather up there is rather windy? So far I have been launching my Cub only above frozen lakes in Northern Canada. I've read Ed's recommendation to try to point down a bit the plane's nose against the wind to gain speed. But what should I do to land it safely after it gained speed?

4) Last week, I had a great time watching how my SuperCub glided freely as a bird for couple of minutes when his power was automatically cut off due to low battery. I even landed it safely without reengaging the motor! My questions is: isn’t it more safe for the plane to land it with a cut motor (this was my experience) as opposed to trying to ‘flare’ it with engageing the motor, which in most of the cases is hard to execute correctly as usually this prolongs the landing approach as the nose of the plane goes up more than intented?

5) Finally, how do you select where to land the plane when flying over empty fields? In my case it is alwas at random. Where should one be positioned when landing the plane (behind it? the plane coming streight to me? The plane landing sude to me?) In general my question is where should I be when 1) I start executing a landing approach and 2) when landing the plane on the ground? I've noticed that for a newby it is easier to be positioned behind the plane but I'm not sure if this is correct.

Thank you very much in advance. I'll be waiting for your tips before I go to fly my Cub again. I love this plane and I want to respect it and prevent it from crashes by flying it properly

[Air Trucker]

First check rudder for being centered. Plug batt and everything should go to center of sevo. if not make adj to either sevo or at the rudder.

@. You control what the plane does. It will always want to climb onto the wind with power in less you trim it or power back and adj your flight path.

I alway try to land with power, Power is control where you want it. Saves on long walks.I line plane up facing it off to one side on landing app. Hope this helps.

[Alex Moore]

I'm looking at getting the Areobird swift has any one had experience with this plain

ps i have had a experence with the blade cx2
but not with plains

[madwebtvscientist]

CrashKing, Great to see so many encouraging posts since your first post. Sorry my responce is so late. I hope you can enjoy it anyway. Here goes . . .

wow! can I ever identify with you! I designed and flew Control-Line aerobatics aircraft, read almost everything about all kinds of airplanes including R/C since the Fifties, stumbled upon Air Hogs Aero Ace about two years ago and it has be down hill ever since. It was so frustrating to be trying to fly straight and level with my first not-so-appropriate-for-beginner-3ch airplanes and simply fly right into the ground! I also added to my miseries by insisting on learning to fly park flyers in a "park size" park - big mistake! I developed some really detrimental neurotic control reactions as a result of crashing so much that it took me months of training to overcome my irrational behavior.

Fortunately, in your case you are now flying one of the recognized best possible trainers. The key to success that you are already involved in is dogged persistence. I suspect that you intuitively know this but could use a little reassurance that you really are on the right path because things seem much more difficult than you thought they ought to be.

It is amazing how the body and mind can ever so impreceptively be trained over time with continual determined practice. A big problem with us older R/C beginners can be our emotional reactions to flight (and crash) phenomena.

As I shared with two other retirees that I flew with yesterday who are both beginning R/C modelers with concerns about whether they would ever be able to become proficient flyers, I told them that in the beginning after I completed a simple shallow "S" flight path from center field to the infield of a baseball field that I literally became weak in the knees when the plane landed. Even now as I pointed out to them as they stood beside me while I was demonstrating "warbird maneuvers" with my modified motor powered glider, I get so excited when I attempt an outside loop that can barely be performed without rolling out one way or the other that I can't always tell what the plane is doing. I have to repeatedly try the maneuver before I can be sure of what is actually happening.

Sometimes I can actually perform a really convincing outside loop. I am fairly certain that the plane I flew yesterday rolled out to starboard about 2/3rds of the way around the loop. I ironed a big translucent red "meatball" to the underside of the right wing panel to help prevent disorientation and I am sure it rolled the meatball direction. I am still adjusting and trimming for best performance. At some point I hope to become a competent "warbird maneuvering" R/C pilot. My first warbird will be a ducted fan Mig-15.

Your B-58 sounds like an awesome project, but I have no doubts but that you will be successful with it. My thing is fighters for socializing purposes. At the moment I really love high flying soaring with only a few maneuvers thrown in just for fun.

I hope you will be encouraged to know that you are perfectly normal and that most all (probably all) of us "old timers" suffer from the very same doubts and stresses as we do the impossible - teaching old dogs new tricks!

madwebtvscientist

____________________________________________
Modeling Promoting Blog:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/...g&memid=266748

Modeling's rendezvous with destiny will surely be unstoppable when something greater than the narcissistic pleasure of an esoteric chosen few is adopted in modeling.

[AeroSurfer]

Lot of useful Info

[CrashKing]

Thanks for the encouraging words, "Mad Scientist". It does seem that it's harder sometimes for us older guys to pick up new skills; probably because our brains are already so jammed full of other (mostly useless) stuff. I remember that I had a hard time learning to fly control-line planes when I was a kid, too. BTW, I think my flying buddy and I invented "3-D" about 45 years ago when we crashed his control-line P-40 and broke off a wing, then decided to break off the other wing in the interest of symmetry. With the little .049 motor screaming the wingless p-40 would hover about 20 feet up while spinning furiously and going through all sorts of wild gyrations. The fun ended when his Dad came out and read us the riot act; the usual "somebody's going to get hurt" nonsense. Adults were so unreasonable back then! LOL! I've been practising flying with the simulator a lot and it really is a BIG help. Actual flying isn't really the same but it's so much easier once the controls become instinctive and you don't have to think about which stick does what anymore while your plane crashes. My Easy Star has gotten easy enough that I've done some mods to it over the past month of bad weather, including ailerons and a good-sized brushless outrunner motor in the nose. I haven't been able to test it in this configuration yet but hopefully nicer weather is on the way.

[madwebtvscientist]

Crash, tremendous life story! Your experiences are both inspirational and encouraging for us "older" modeling enthusiasts who sometimes tend to allow emotion rather than reason to influence our decisions. One of the beautiful things about your situation that jumps right out of the thread is the fact that you are a retired airline pilot. The kind of discipline you have developed in the past is a quality that virtually guarantees your success at anything you might set your mind to do in the future regardless of any "flack or fighters" along the way!

In the beginning over half a century ago none of us would-be modelers in Nehalem, Oregon could get our engines to do much more than pop at us. Big dry cell batteries died easily, etc. In spite of all our dismal failures I was determined to learned to fly.

I "invented whip-powered control-line flight" that allowed me to learn flight control skills well enough so that when I finally figured out how to get my engine to run I was able to fly successfully. The entire minute of successful heavier-than-air-powered flight, give or take a few seconds, was pure unsurpassed joy! Success after such a long period of failures of various kinds really helped intensify that final ultimate victory experience in the wild blue yonder! Since then I perfected my ULTIMATE FRUGAL FLYER whip powered stunter that I use to teach people how to fly. Pictures of one of my students can be seen on: http://community-2.webtv.net/RICHARD...TOF/page2.html

Speaking of 3-D, out of pure loyalty to Air Hogs for their affordable high quality flying saucer and Aero Aces, I bought their "3D performing" Rolling Fury - it has some fun possibilities in mild weather conditions. I don't quite have a "handle" on it yet with its "blip" adjustable elevator or proportional vectored thrust directional control, but not both control functions at the same time.

Here are the instructions about how to fly the "wonderful 3D stunt action:" "Fly your jet at about 8 m (26') above the ground, pushing the left lever stick upward [full power] and pushing the right lever stick downward in a very fast action which will make the jet perform the above 3D stunt action" [simple loop]. Quotes are taken from Rolling Fury instructions with my comments in square brackets.

Okay, since I am actually only a Simi retired control-line guy rather than a real bona fide R/Cer would you please tell me what a "real" 3-D maneuver is?

When I did your trick with a wingless fuselage the forces were so great that the engine crank shaft broke at some point in its vertical spinning climb.

I believe you are probably right about flight sims, at least for us older students. I've read that some kids (and somewhat older people) actually learn how to fly very well from flight sims and they have had very little trouble with the "real thing" afterwards. Us older folks may be much more prone to emotional responses to the differences between sims and our "priceless real airplanes."

Good to hear about your ES. I am a little concerned though about the idea of mounting that new motor on the "front" of your plane. The c.g. could be brought badly out of tolerance. I'll bet you meant to say in the plane's motor pod.

Gotta run,

madwebtvscientist

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[CrashKing]

Just wrote a long reply to "mad scientist", complete with pics of my modded EZ Star, then it all disappeared before I could submit it, when AOL decided my mail had "Timed Out"! I hate when that happens! I hate AOL! Oh, the motor is on the nose but the battery is in a compartment under the wing, and the CG is right on.