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Old 03-15-2015, 06:49 PM   #1
mlan12
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Default Foam adhesive

I did a search with no luck, so I am posting this question. I would like some suggestions on a good adhesive to use to build a foam aircraft. I was planning on using hot glue, but I have seen videos for Foam-Tac. Not sure what is best to use, perhaps other adhesives are a better choice. I am planning on using pink insulating foam for my first project. Thank you for any advice.
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Old 03-15-2015, 07:18 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by mlan12 View Post
I did a search with no luck, so I am posting this question. I would like some suggestions on a good adhesive to use to build a foam aircraft. I was planning on using hot glue, but I have seen videos for Foam-Tac. Not sure what is best to use, perhaps other adhesives are a better choice. I am planning on using pink insulating foam for my first project. Thank you for any advice.
I use the white Gorilla Glue with the pink foam, as well as the white Dollar Tree stuff.

My method? Spread it on one surface and cover completely, then scrape as much off as reasonably possible leaving just a slight sheen. I then use a water sprayer to mist the second sheet and put them together under pressure. It is important to be sure the pieces stay in alignment, you have a few moments to adjust. The surface is slick and the parts will want to slide around.

Cons: They take some time to set up so this is not instantaneous and it is necessary to be sure each aligns and stays aligned. Too much glue and you will have some white ooze to deal with.

Will post some photos of projects using pink foam, if you wish.

Bill

ps: A scroll saw is great for cutting the pink foam. Only issue I've found is the blade length in the saw limits how large the cut/foam can be.

Don't drink and derive. Alcohol and calculus don't mix.
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Old 03-15-2015, 07:57 PM   #3
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I use both. I find that the Foam tac is the old fashion rubber cement cancomeoff quite simple on hand,gorilla white another story. White will be bubbly and you spray water on it after you apply to advance the adhiring. Foam tac you apply spead apart rub hold till dries and will need time to cure longer than white.

out flying here learning.
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Old 03-15-2015, 08:09 PM   #4
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Couple photos. The laminate in the upper right shows what the glue joint is like after setup and after being misaligned. Cut apart along the glue line as well as the saw allowed to see the extent of adhesion.

The parts were intended for various Blu-Babies.


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Old 03-15-2015, 08:17 PM   #5
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Depends on which foam as to which will be the best glue.

Avoid hot melt (especially around here) for one reason: If you leave your plane in your car to go into the store for 10 minutes you can come back to a very deformed airplane.
Hot melt is quick and easy but slightly heavy.

Gorilla glue (poly expanding foam glues) needs good clamping while it sets up and can be damaged by UV exposure.
Generally it takes a long time for the UV to be a problem. Brush off the damaged glue and recoat.

There are assorted contact cements which are appropriate for some of the foams we use.

For white styro you can even use common white "school" glue and it will work fine... Just poke a bunch of holes in the contact area so the glue can get a better grip.

Epoxies generally work fine but are a little heavy.
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Old 03-16-2015, 03:57 AM   #6
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Gorilla Glue : This is a Brand-Name for Polyurethane Wood Glue. Any DIY shop will sell a generic version far cheaper. It is usually in two forms .... commonly referred to as White and Brown. White is the 'Indoor' or non-weatherproof version and Brown is the Seawater / Weatherproof version. Either is fine for our use.
Two aspects to note : PU Glue expands in the joint and unless items are kept pressed evenly - can end up deformed, out of alignment etc. Second the curing of PU takes at least overnight. The joint may appear secure after an hour - but it is still curing and if then removed from pressed - will deform.

PU Glue is light and sands easily. Excellent adhesion to most foams and does not attack as it does not use solvents.

Epoxy : Heavy but strongest form of adhesive. BUT adhesion depends on material being glued. Many foams do not actually glue up that well with it. Some - you can literally peel the epoxy away from after its set. But rough up the joint areas, create a few divots and pock-marks for the epoxy to bite into and you have a strong but heavy joint. Use of 5 minute epoxy is just as good as longer setting versions.

CA (CyanoAcrylate or Super Glue) : This is one of the most misunderstood glues around ... and is used in most unsuitable areas. It is brittle and unforgiving adhesive. Standard form will melt most foams, so a Foam-Safe version should be used. Its only virtue is its lightness. Unlike most adhesives - it also requires a perfect fit of items - it will not tolerate gaps or imperfections in joint. Even Gap-Filling CA is limited in this respect.
CA is the glue of the person with no time !!

White Glue (Woodworkers or PVA Glue) : This is generally not a good glue to use on any foam as it cannot soak in and grip. It is water based and dries to a non-brittle form that can be peeled away from non-absorbent materials.

Foam-Tac : A glue formulated to glue most Foams and still retain flexibility. Often used to produce hinges to foam surfaces as well as adhesive. It is also a Brand name and generic versions are available.

Contact Glue : Most forms are with Solvent carrier - a spirit with distinctive aroma .... to be avoided as the solvent will eat foam faster than the glue dries. Even after drying - it will continue to attack untill all solvent has evaporated. The only form of Contact Glue to use is SOLVENT FREE form ... which I believe is the basis of Foam Tac.

Hot Glue : Modellers repair friend but like most glues - careful choice of where and when to use. No evaporation or lessening of glue weight in curing. It can be peeled from most foams / materials and will over time generally fail and start to separate. If using the higher temp sticks - you can in fact cause melting of foam surface in use.

The above are the common forms found on most benches .... each has it's advantages and also disadvantages.

My preference is for, in order of preference :

5 minute Epoxy as the general fall to hand adhesive. It covers the widest range of materials and used sensibly can be without significant weight penalty. It is my one and only motor mount glue.

PU Glue as the next - it provides reliable sandable joint in most foams. It is rigid without weight penalty. I use the Brown version as I also use it on my full size yachts - which are subject to Seawater.

White Glue comes next as it is flexible, excellent for doublers etc. where item must bend or form shapes. Not to be relied on for strength though, except when using with wood.

Hot Glue as my quickie fixer ... I use as tacking agent when setting up slower drying glues ... for repairs before getting home .... quick attachment of items that do not need stronger glues. I also use it to 'knock-up' a quickie model for test ... later creating a proper glued version once tested with better glue choice.

CA glue is reserved for those repairs on field to get another flight or for detail work. It's downside is the brittleness and it's habit of forming rock-hard joints in balsa etc.

I hope the above has helped ..... it is my set-out of views on glues and may not agree with others ....

Nigel

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Old 03-16-2015, 04:16 AM   #7
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Thank you all for your helpful information. This is my first attempt at building a foam plane so your advice is needed and appreciated.
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Old 03-18-2015, 11:03 AM   #8
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Default Foam Glues

It would be my recomendation to get some BSI Foamcure from Headsup Hobbies. It is foam safe and allows time to apply over large area's before
setting up. But it is just fast enough that you can move right along with the
build. I use it in all of my builds.
Crash

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Old 03-19-2015, 02:55 PM   #9
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Default Thank you

Thank you Crash. Ordered a bottle it will be here soon. This will give me two options when I start building. Also have a bottle of Gorilla Glue.
Mark
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:12 PM   #10
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UhuPor is pretty decent, I stick with Canopy Glue myself. Have to secure the areas while the glue sets, but easy to clean, strong and repairs are very good looking.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:43 PM   #11
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5 minute epoxy is my fav. The one in the black and red bottles. It cures fast but leaves enough time for adjustments. The bond is stronger than the foam itself. I've had a wing crack right next to a repair site and old crack was fine
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Old 03-20-2015, 05:34 PM   #12
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+1 on Foam-tac for Depron. Good stuff. You can also buy it at Headsuprc. +1 on all of Nigel's recs too. I like Gorilla but end up cursing it most of the time because I fail to stay out ahead of it's expansion. Can be a mess.

I use different glues based on to application. I only use hot glue for quickie, slam together foamie jets Foam safe CA w/ accelerator at the field, etc.

One glue I didn't see mentioned above that I would add to the list is Welders glue. The red tube version only.

I can only find on ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HOMAX-73...item1e92637e08

It's great for repairing detached control surfaces such as foam hinged ailerons and elevators. Just run a bead down the hinge line and hold together. This glue is strong but will remain pliable.

-Hawk
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Old 04-08-2015, 09:28 AM   #13
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I have not heard mention of E-6000. It's sold at Hobby Lobby , Michaels, Ace H. etc. About 4bucks for 2 oz. I will glue about anything to anything. You dont have to put it on both surfaces. Ive used it on epp, styro, balsa to foam etc. Does not require heavy clamping. You will not get it apart. I give it about an hour to set. Try it you'll like it...Get the tube with the nozzle...
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Old 04-08-2015, 09:37 AM   #14
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EPP is a pig to glue successfully. It resists just about every glue there is ! Its a property of the foam and also that release agent is often still on surface.

I find that epoxy and use of dings / dents / rough surface helps.

Nigel

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Old 04-10-2015, 08:03 AM   #15
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Nigel, try the E6000 it works great on EPP and anykind of foam; foam to foam, balsa to foam, metal to foam, metal to metal. If i could get them to sit still i could glue a canary bird to my dog's head... Also it is excellent for control surface hinges, ailerones rudders etc. because it is so flexible on drying. I am surprised more modelers haven't gotten onto it; it is a modern and superior glue. Guys who have been useing epoxy are wasteing their time mixing up their stuff.................. Nigel, incidentally i really enjoy your flying videos and commentaries from the meaths and moors..... steve m. from Illinois US
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Old 04-10-2015, 12:49 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by tolona View Post
Nigel, try the E6000 it works great on EPP and anykind of foam; foam to foam, balsa to foam, metal to foam, metal to metal. If i could get them to sit still i could glue a canary bird to my dog's head... Also it is excellent for control surface hinges, ailerones rudders etc. because it is so flexible on drying. I am surprised more modelers haven't gotten onto it; it is a modern and superior glue. Guys who have been useing epoxy are wasteing their time mixing up their stuff.................. Nigel, incidentally i really enjoy your flying videos and commentaries from the meaths and moors..... steve m. from Illinois US
Tks for the support ! My vids actually primarily are as a diagnostic tool. Helps me develop the model by sliding the vids down, watching for quirks etc. Hosting and linking for forums - I'm never afraid to show how silly I can be !

E6000 - I will try source some. But living in ex soviet land, items can be difficult to find.

After resisting it for years - I remember back in late 1980's when Hotglue appeared, magazines had field boxes and all sorts illustrated built with it - I finally succumbed when I went electric. Hinges and general tacking with it. But apart from my Montana, I have never used such as primary glue. E6000 may be a first to convince me to change !

Cheers
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Old 04-10-2015, 12:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by tolona View Post
Nigel, try the E6000 it works great on EPP and anykind of foam; foam to foam, balsa to foam, metal to foam, metal to metal. If i could get them to sit still i could glue a canary bird to my dog's head... Also it is excellent for control surface hinges, ailerones rudders etc. because it is so flexible on drying. I am surprised more modelers haven't gotten onto it; it is a modern and superior glue. Guys who have been useing epoxy are wasteing their time mixing up their stuff.................. Nigel, incidentally i really enjoy your flying videos and commentaries from the meaths and moors..... steve m. from Illinois US
Tks for the support ! My vids actually primarily are as a diagnostic tool. Helps me develop the model by slowing the vids down, watching for quirks etc. Hosting and linking for forums - I'm never afraid to show how silly I can be !

E6000 - I will try source some. But living in ex soviet land, items can be difficult to find.

After resisting it for years - I remember back in late 1980's when Hotglue appeared, magazines had field boxes and all sorts illustrated built with it - I finally succumbed when I went electric. Hinges and general tacking with it. But apart from my Montana, I have never used such as primary glue. E6000 may be a first to convince me to change !

Cheers
Nigel

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Old 04-10-2015, 01:02 PM   #18
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Mmmmmmm - now I am not one who scaremongers so please do not take the following to extreme ....

Looking online at E6000, it appears to have Tetrachloroethylene in its formation. This is a carcinagenic item. I would assume the amount in the glue is minute, but there.

Before anyone jumps on me - epoxides have dermatological side effects as well - one I am well aware of because I have irritant sensitive hand skin after decades of exposure to petrochemicals etc.

Still interested in it though - will do a bit more delving into it ...

Nigel

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Old 04-10-2015, 01:15 PM   #19
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OK - so far only material I find that is said E6000 should not be used on is Styrofoam. That's not unusual as Styro is infamous for meltdown !

But so far reviews seem to say its good product.

So now looking for good online "International" price ...

Nigel

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Old 04-10-2015, 01:27 PM   #20
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Nigel, i thought you lived in England all this time by watching you and your British accent and all. But even in former communist countries like Poland and the Baltic States , in Chicago they are known as the Lugan states Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia as there are many Lugans in Chicago; even a Museum of Lugan History on the South side of Chicago. they call it Estonian. but the Latvians and Estonians dispute this'.. But you should be able to get E6000 glue if you can get r/c parts. Give your address via personal messege, i will send you a tube...... steve m.
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Old 04-10-2015, 01:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by tolona View Post
Nigel, i thought you lived in England all this time by watching you and your British accent and all. But even in former communist countries like Poland and the Baltic States , in Chicago they are known as the Lugan states Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia as there are many Lugans in Chicago; even a Museum of Lugan History on the South side of Chicago. they call it Estonian. but the Latvians and Estonians dispute this'.. But you should be able to get E6000 glue if you can get r/c parts. Give your address via personal messege, i will send you a tube...... steve m.
I left UK just after breakup of Soviet Union and started work in Baltics. Lived in Russia and then moved back to Latvia with a period in Estonia.
Its now about 22yrs, married a Russian, most of my work involves Russian oil / products. Even covered NATO and Co-Alition supplies along with other stuff !

The Brit accent and passport has saved me more than a few times !

RC parts are available but problem is Latvia and the other two Baltic states are so small population, there's no real business. Total population of Latvia only stands at about 2.3mill. The number of RC flyers I know is less than a small group of flyers in UK !
So most supplies are online with HK leading the list as usual ! For other items, where HK etc. cannot supply, then eBay often gets the orders.

Tks for offer, but I have found a UK supplier and will trial it soon.

Nigel

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Old 04-11-2015, 12:03 PM   #22
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Nigel, you are correct, E6000 glue will not work on hard styro, i.e. expanded poly-styrene. But it is very useful on the soft foams used in r/c building like epp. As i mentioned before it is an all-purpose glue available for craft uses thus cheaper than the specialty foam glues like foam-tac (it's probably the same stuff only cheaper) You don't really have to apply it to both surfaces as it works fine as applied on the one surface. If you order it sight unseen, make sure you get the nozzle tube, as they also make it in a tube like a tooth-paste tube, but this is not as useful for placing the glue right where you want it, especially places like inside right angles which there are a lot of on a profile foam plane for instance..... steve m. from IL US Cheers Nigel, keep up the good work
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Old 04-11-2015, 12:05 PM   #23
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Ordered 110ml for testing.

Also noted peoples advise to 'grease' the nozzle cap threads !

Nigel

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Old 04-11-2015, 12:21 PM   #24
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Nigel i might also mention, my college room mate's Mom was a Lugan (Lithuanian from Chicago, a gentile) and she did not consider the term pejoritive. She told me personally that when her parents came over in the late teens they had veg. seeds sown into their clothes, because they did not know what to expect.....
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Old 04-11-2015, 05:27 PM   #25
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weldbond is my favorite inexpensive & strong
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