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Old 12-04-2014, 08:36 PM   #1
upuprcflyn
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Default I Graduated To The Twice Crash Club! HELP

My first Foamy Cessna 182 Skylane 747 III took to the sky several time and landed ok, next time out She decided to go on a date with a light pole coming back to me all broken up Pilot error of course

Newest Foamy FMS Sky Trainer Cessna 182 recent maiden flight in 7mph winds with a bit puffy lipo batt was probably not the best decision to make, she came down soon after landing in thorn bushes ouch. This plane is a keeper so I de-thorned her bought new wings and motor shaft gonna give it another go.

First I want to practice more on a more durable foamy trainer that I can crash and burn without the big ouch factor glue it and go up again sooner. Can you all plz give me advise on what model i should purchase to practice more on? any advice is greatly appreciated I'm not giving up.....
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Old 12-04-2014, 09:08 PM   #2
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Hi upup. First thing is, despite the name and reputation of your plane, it's not a good trainer for RC. Yes, the full scale one is used as a trainer. But that's with a competent instructor sitting next to the student inside it!

If you've browsed around the forums, these planes should have stood out as the popular, good trainers. The HobbyZone SuperCub, in it's various renditions. Now it's the SuperCub S, with the SAFE system. The HZ DeltaRay, the Apprentice. Both also now with SAFE.

For one to practice on and is easy to glue back together, and with easy to get, cheap spare parts, I'd go with the SuperCub. Yes, it's 'only' 3 channel, but it still flies great, and you can always add ailerons on your own if you really want. Your 182 looks great, but as you're finding, there's plenty to break, and it's troublesome to fix. That's why great looking scale planes aren't good for training and beginners who might crash a lot. Save those for when you've learned to not crash so much!

There are others out there, and hopefully others will add to the list, but that's my recommendation.
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Old 12-04-2014, 09:20 PM   #3
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The plane you have should be a decent trainer, not the ideal trainer, but you can learn on it. You should have a perfectly good lipo in the plane, a puffed one often means it is good for little more than a paper weight, and on throttle it may have just failed, leaving you deadsticking. Keep away from areas with obstructions. Once you get good enough, your focus will be on surroundings along with the plane, but I find when you first start, you are often shaking and scared of what to do, and only looking at the plane. Really it sounds like you FMS Cessna crashed because of improper setup, and perhaps wind. Fly on a dead calm day, learn to taxi around a bit, and then take off. Tricycle wheel landing gear will have not bad tendencies like tail draggers, so take off should be easy. Don't go crazy of the elevator, just a gradual up elevator should do it, for you aren't flying a stunt plane, and the Cessna will stall if angle of incline is too steep. Keep it nice and easy, the 182 shouldn't be a bad trainer. Stuff from HK can help you more though:

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...r_Trainer.html

There are some decent trainers from HK. Personally, my first successful flights were on a TuffTrainer, and HK doesn't seem to carry it now. I stepped up to a Mini Switch after my first 5 or so flights on the Tuff Trainer, and quickly went to low wing. Realistically, most of my learning was from a plane that is really closer to a sports plane.
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Old 12-04-2014, 09:27 PM   #4
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I've read that this one is durable: http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...sion_PNF_.html

It's tough and a decent size.
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Old 12-04-2014, 09:35 PM   #5
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I started off almost exactly like you did. I had the Airfield G-KEMY C-182. +1 on x-mech's point. This is not the best first plane.

Went and got the HZ Super Cub. Actually still have her for sentimental reasons more than anything. It had ACT which I immediately de-activated. Also had 27mhz. I ended up modding her to the nines with ailerons, better wheels, carved out battery box, etc. A bunch of youtubes on this plane. I think the newer one now comes with SAFE.

After a while, in a daring moment I bought a PZ-T-28. One great plane. And also went back to the Cessna now that I could actually fly it.

If I were to do it over again with what's out there now I'd opt for the Apprentice S with SAFE as my first plane. High wing w/ ailerons. The SAFE system will keep you out of trouble. From there , plane #2 would still be the T-28.

I noticed you joined 2 years ago. What the heck have you been doing? Do you have a sim? I'd look at Phoenix or Real Flight if ypu don't have one. Something you should have.

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Old 12-05-2014, 05:50 AM   #6
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Default 182

Dahawk

I have been flying my hanger9 alpha 40 with a friend who buddy hooked me til i was able to fly on my own under his watch which I have done ok and never crashed it. have not flown it for about 5months now, then i got the latest cessna 182 and crashed. I started on the sim for 6mo before i got the alpha 40, i guess my big problem is I need to be more consistent in flying more often before hitting the sky with the Cessna.

92 and 2K good advise, I will look into the planes mention with SAFE, your correct on the problem and errors i had. I do believe that puffed battery failed soon aft i took off, got it up then turned right and could not level it straight and it came straight down.
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Old 12-05-2014, 06:20 AM   #7
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The good thing about safe is that it will practically take off and land for you. On planes like my UMX Pitts, I can just go full elevator on take off and it will pull up near vertical. For a scale plane like a 182, it likes to be flown, more or less, like how the real thing would, gradual and steady. Even if you were gradual, and the puffed lipo cut off, it shouldn't stall too bad. From the sound of it, you should be capable of flying the Cessna, and I don't see reason in going to a pure trainer myself. To get a hang of the power and flight of the 182, hand toss it, so you don't have to pick up speed. About 3/4 throttle and a toss with a tad of elevator and it will not stall. From there you can fly a few mistakes high, fly slow and see how it stalls, and how slow it will stall, or even deadstick and see glide characteristics. From there you can take off from the ground and know roughly the angle and speed you can take off. If there is room, it's always better to have a longer take off to secure a better speed, rather than risk stalling. Truthfully I think your puffy lipo may have doomed the flight.
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Old 12-05-2014, 09:28 AM   #8
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While I think SAFE can be great for raw beginners, I believe there is a downside, too. After reading all the hype for so long, I finally got to experience it first hand when a co-worker decided to get into the hobby and got an Apprentice S. He used to race RC boats, and practiced on a flying sim a few weeks before his first attempt on the buddy box with me.

The first issue with SAFE was in beginners mode, the turn radius was HUGE! You have to think way ahead of the plane and start your turns pretty early in this mode. It helped to hold full rudder with full aileron to tighten the turns some, but that's when I noticed the other problem. When you remove the SAFE, you no way in heck fly a plane like that. Bad habit in the making? Intermediate mode was better. And of course, experienced mode or whatever it's called gave you full freedom but with the panic switch still available. My coworker did great and was soloing on something like his 3rd flight. Turned off SAFE altogether very soon after, like 2 flights later. (The Apprentice was a great trainer way before SAFE existed.) But then there's the AS3X. He's totally bored with the Apprentice already. I've had my Apprentice (No SAFE or AS3X) 7 years. I still get a kick out of taking her out on a windy day and shooting touch and goes. I even do that when my landings are feeling bad on my other planes. Don't know why, but it gets me back in the groove. I suggested he try my Apprentice or swap out the SAFE/AS3X rx in his and try to see if it puts some entertainment back in. He hasn't tried yet.

Maybe you're beyond SAFE planes, upup. No way to really tell without seeing you fly in person, only you know. As far as your puffed battery, you have to keep in mind, this isn't an rc car that'll just stop if there's a problem. There's that ever-present gravity to contend with in the planes! Make sure your plane and everything in it is in good shape every time. Maybe it's because I'm an aircraft mechanic, but I know I want to be sure if I crash a plane it's gonna be due to pilot error, no mechanical fault!

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Old 12-05-2014, 09:39 AM   #9
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Good points. The worst crashes are the ones you know you didn't do. This was common on my UMX SBach, and now my UMX Habu. Using an Orange module, never once has my UMX Pitts crashed from malfuction, and it's had around 150 flights I bet. With the UMX Habu, 3rd flight. No crash is fun, but it's not as bad when you are trying something and you mess up. Things happen, like with my UMX planes where I can't pinpoint what the issue is (environmental, radio, or AS3X), but if you see something clearly wrong with wiring, batteries, setup, fix it up before you fly.
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:04 AM   #10
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Interesting analysis I agree with you, I'm confident I can concur this small dilemma I'm experiencing with the Cessna. the odds were against me from the start as you said, now that I look back the flying field was dirt and kind of rocky and short something I'm not use to. I have only taken off on cement surface with more distance ahead of me, with that being said I rushed the take off wanting to spare my nose gear from damage on this short dirt small rocky path. With the puffy battery thinking I could get one flight out it doomed me from the start. Funny thing is I had 2 new lipos charged to keep me in the air what a bad choice.

Lesson learned the hard way Like you said No need for another dedicated Trainer, I got the 182 just about all polished back up and I'm ready to get back in the sky with lots of practice before i maiden the 1450mm Airfield T28 - FMS 800mm T28 or my Hanger9 Meridian 10cc
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:06 AM   #11
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I video nearly all my flights. I can then slow them down to view when things happen - gives me an insight in what happens that you cannot have when at flight line. We all assume / think we know why we crash .. but it is often the case that the video shows a factor not realised.

A good case is my Skymaster Biplane when she was inverted in a turn and lining up for a moderate height inverted pass in front of camera. She levelled and then nose-dived into the runway tarmac ... obliterating the engine and nose / top wing etc. Took me a long time to rebuild her ... but anyway. In the video I assume that I have gone wrong way with elevator and say such on the vid.
Later playback and slowing the video down shows that despite my waggling sticks trying to pull her out - she makes no deviation whatever from a straight arrow like dive into the deck. It shows that in fact the elevator servo had failed. No DOWN elevator holding nose up - she went in ...
Repeated careful checking of the JR servo showed an intermittent fault that was not apparent before ... The video supplied the answer.

To OP - welcome to the club ..we all crash ... !! If I could g'tee not to crash after 45 odd years in this game - I'd be real happy !

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Old 12-05-2014, 10:19 AM   #12
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2K
Great Pic message well taken, makes total sense from the mechanical standpoint. Won't make that mistake again I really appreciate everyone's knowledge, help and welcome all info you can share to make me a better pilot. Actually I had fun gaining experience repairing the damage.
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Old 12-05-2014, 04:39 PM   #13
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No problem, we all started off unable to fly...quite sure no one just spotted some SBach, bought it and then said "Watch this!!" Of course, some will take longer to learn, some will learn quickly, as I did, but everyone has started off with some sort of trainer. Whatever you do, don't put in triple the power in a trainer, like I did with the Tuff Trainer. The thing would have reached 100mph if the wings didn't fold in half!!

Nigel has some good points, if you can video your flights, you can see how the plane behaves in flight, or if you crash, what likely went wrong.
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Old 12-05-2014, 05:13 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by upuprcflyn View Post
2K
Great Pic message well taken, makes total sense from the mechanical standpoint. Won't make that mistake again I really appreciate everyone's knowledge, help and welcome all info you can share to make me a better pilot. Actually I had fun gaining experience repairing the damage.
Damage repair is not the minefield some seem to think it is. Usually it's down to collect all the bits .. see how it all goes together and come up with a solution.

It may be knit the bits back together with CA and then some strengthening added ... it may be create own replacement parts ... it may be that a different material or design altogether is called for.

My 'famous' biplane crash .. a wood model - I did a repair thread on here ... Instead of just rebuilding with wood parts similar to the original - I replaced with foam blocks married into the wood structure with pine strips. Virtually no weight change, but stiffer, quieter structure with more secure motor mount. The foam also gave me literally instant shape.

Repairs are not black art ... it's just a series of logical conclusions leading to an end. It is also in my mind an important part of RC flying .. no in fact ALL modelling, surface and air. It also gives greater understanding of the model itself.

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Old 12-05-2014, 08:20 PM   #15
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Nigel

Is there equipment available like a helmet cam to vid my flights when I'm out on my own when no one is avaliable to vid for me? this would definitely be worth while information for viewing. Setting up my portable vid cam on a tripod prob won't get all footage needed.
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Old 12-05-2014, 09:32 PM   #16
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I have various I use / used ...

a) 808 Keychain camera on a baseball cap peak : (I only buy the cheap $5 jobs ... there are HD versions if you want but higher priced).





b) Helmet cam ... larger but similar camera spec on a strap you wear on a hat or head ... about $20 a throw ...



c) Video Sunglasses which I now use ... they can sit over top of prescription glasses as well .. you can remove the tinted lenses as I do when it's dull day ...

Few things to note :

1) When you look around - it translates into quick jerks and is untidy for viewer !

2) When videoing - and model is to pass across in front of you - natural to LEAD the model - to look where it WILL be .. so often you have model OUT of shot. You need to force yourself to lead by EYE not whole head ..

3) No zoom ..

The very best video I have found is when another does it and actually my best is when the guy uses my old Sony Handycam ... it's optical zoom .. has fine resolution - not digital ... much easier to aim and follow a model ...



Hope that helps ..

Oh and video conversions are handled easily by a free program : Freemake Video Converter and I use Windows Movie Maker as it's easy and simple.

Nigel

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Old 12-05-2014, 10:36 PM   #17
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Nigel awesome thx for the pics, its a great start I'm surfing the net to find and purchase the cap cam with quality.
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:54 PM   #18
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Hi upuprcflyn,

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet; I don't have time to read all of this thread.

Find a place to fly where there is plenty of room, and tall grass or some other soft ground cover. Like a lawn gets if it hasn't been mowed in a few months. There is a huge difference between hitting grass that's a foot tall, and bare ground or a well kept lawn. If you don't wreck your plane every time you make a minor mistake, it's a lot easier to have fun at it.

Tom
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Old 12-05-2014, 11:01 PM   #19
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The single best R/C investment I ever made was Real Flight 3.5 simulator almost 14 years ago. I still have it! I flew glow R/C in the late 70's to early 80's but never had any confidence. I crashed a lot too. When I got back into R/C in 2001 I agonized between paying for a simulator or building a plane and risk crashing again. I got the sim and practiced until I could do everything I "intended" to do and not crash. I then built a Mountain Models SwitchBack and a GWS Slow Stick. Practiced a bit before I went out to maiden both planes in a school yard. It was like I had flown all my life. As soon as they left the ground my nervousness just stopped and I enjoyed both flights. In all that time I can count my crashes on one hand and they were all from doing stupid stunts. I actually crashed one plane on purpose simply because I hated it. Get a sim. Learn to fly it first. Then you'll be able to really enjoy flying the real thing. It REALLY helped me with helicopters too.

Oh yeah, I still have that original SwitchBack AND Slow Stick.


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Old 12-05-2014, 11:56 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by upuprcflyn View Post
Nigel awesome thx for the pics, its a great start I'm surfing the net to find and purchase the cap cam with quality.
Its worth wading through this site ... :

http://www.chucklohr.com/808/index.shtml

It has all the info about the different versions ... and how to sort ..

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Old 12-06-2014, 12:09 AM   #21
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Hi pilots 52 and Turbo

I Will deff look for a more grassy area to fly to minimize the impact if i get into trouble again. I have a sim that I practiced on for about 6 mo b4 actual flying with a buddy trainer with my hanger9 alpha 40, got the hang of it aft 8 flights then flew on my own under his watch without a crash to this date until I flew the Cessna 182 and crashed, In my opinion due to several pilot errors.
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Old 12-06-2014, 01:05 AM   #22
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Nigel looked over the link for the 808, not sure the 808 cam is compatible to view video footage on my macbook pro laptop. I did come across windows based information to view the video footage.
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Old 12-06-2014, 07:03 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by upuprcflyn View Post
Nigel looked over the link for the 808, not sure the 808 cam is compatible to view video footage on my macbook pro laptop. I did come across windows based information to view the video footage.
To be honest having never used a Mac .. I cannot answer for definite. But why should a Mac have trouble with avi files ? I do know that the digital Vid cams usually record to an avi standard that Windows Movie maker generally cannot use ... so the files are converted by other software first. So I would assume that the Mac is similar in that respect. I did name Freemake Video Converter as my conversion utility .. but I'm sure you can find a suitable Mac converter.

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Old 12-06-2014, 05:07 PM   #24
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Mac likes Its own extended file system, or FAT32, PC likes NTFS or FAT32. If the SD card for the camera is formatted FAT32 it will work with Mac. You may need some software for changing settings in the 808, but the software really only adds textfiles into the camera, and when restarted changes your settings.
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Old 12-06-2014, 05:21 PM   #25
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Why play about with the camera ... as I understand it - there are compatibility utilities for the Mac as in Linux to cover such things... direct.

Playing SW / FW with 808 cameras and similar is fraught with danger of bricking them ...

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