Capricorn - the ultimate flying boat.

[Larry3215]

I had a great time with some of my buds at a little lake near here. I flew the Mega and my 4Q. Jed was there with his Polaris and 2 or 3 of his W's. Beautiful spot and nice calm morning.

[wingspann]

Originally Posted by DBacon

Good news, Wingspann, I couldn't be happier. You have been through a lot to get this far. Now you gotta build an original size one!
As for dual rates, that always messes me up, because the switch is needed most when in a panic, and that is the worst time to try to find it.

That's why I took off on high rate and planned my panic early in the flight. All I had to do was keep it from planting itself in the ground long enough to get to the rate switch. Once I got that on, I had that puppy by the tail and could force it to do my bidding.

Originally Posted by Larry3215

To loop on low rates, try this.

Fly straight and level at 1/2 throttle or less. What ever is a comfortable cruising speed.

When your ready to start the loop, begin giving it more throttle as you start to pull back on the stick. You want to smoothly come up to full throttle just as the plane gets to the vertical position. Then start to ease off the throttle as it comes over the top. At the top you want to be back at your normal cruise throttle that you started at. Then as it comes down the back side reduce throttle to zero by the time your pointed straight down. Smoothly come back up to cruise throttle as the plane levels out.

Rinse and repeat as needed

The idea, in a perfect loop, is for the planes speed to be constant at all points in the loop. Thats NOT easy to do!

You can do huuuuge slow loops that way as long as the plane has more than a 1/1 thrust to weight ratio.

On hi rates, you can tie the mini in knots

I'll give that a shot when I get another chance to fly AND I get my nerves sufficiently calm .

Thanks, guys!

John

[wingspann]

I got in a couple of good long flights with the Mini-Cap yesterday afternoon and bolstered my confidence... too much. Went out again this morning and brought it home in 5 pieces. Just plain dumb-thumbs is all I can offer as an explanation. I had been doing some near-hovering in the light breeze and then got a wild hair to do a roll. Not enough throttle, not enough speed, or a combination of the two. It rolled right into the ground.

Back to the building board! I may have to try a full-size this time.

John

[stevenwill]

Hi all,

Thank you Larry3215 for sharing. Built myself a full size floating W and does she float. Maidened her yesterday and had great fun.

Only one little problem perhaps you can help me with, on one of the flights the wind picked and blew for about 10 minutes and I could not get the flying W to turn back into the wind not matter what I tried. Unfortunatly she was fairly low and chrashed out of sight and broke her stab (hoping to fix today) Perhaps I need to increase my throws elevator, although she lifts off easily, but cannot have her crashing all the time OR is there a trick to turning her. Perhaps you can measure how far the elivator and rudder move, it would be greatly appreciated. At present myne are set to only move about 15mm (0.6 of an inch) from centre.

Once again thank you for a great design.

Steve

[Larry3215]

Originally Posted by wingspann

I got in a couple of good long flights with the Mini-Cap yesterday afternoon and bolstered my confidence... too much. Went out again this morning and brought it home in 5 pieces. Just plain dumb-thumbs is all I can offer as an explanation. I had been doing some near-hovering in the light breeze and then got a wild hair to do a roll. Not enough throttle, not enough speed, or a combination of the two. It rolled right into the ground.

Back to the building board! I may have to try a full-size this time.

John

Sorry to hear that John. Yeah, these things like to be either right side up OR upside down. They are fairly stable either way but they dont like to be in between. That means they need speed and or a burst of throttle to roll smoothly or quickly. Its even more pronounced in the larger ones.

Originally Posted by stevenwill

Hi all,

Thank you Larry3215 for sharing. Built myself a full size floating W and does she float. Maidened her yesterday and had great fun.

Only one little problem perhaps you can help me with, on one of the flights the wind picked and blew for about 10 minutes and I could not get the flying W to turn back into the wind not matter what I tried. Unfortunatly she was fairly low and chrashed out of sight and broke her stab (hoping to fix today) Perhaps I need to increase my throws elevator, although she lifts off easily, but cannot have her crashing all the time OR is there a trick to turning her. Perhaps you can measure how far the elivator and rudder move, it would be greatly appreciated. At present myne are set to only move about 15mm (0.6 of an inch) from centre.

Once again thank you for a great design.

Steve

0.6 inches! Oh my. Thats a very tame setup. It will make for an easy gentle flyer but you wont get much maneuverability. Im not surprised it wouldn't turn against the wind.

In the future, in that situation, you could go to full throttle and maybe the controlls would have been able to turn it - maybe not.

You're fighting a lot of surface area in the wing that the wind can get a grip on vrs only a small control surface deflection to counter it.

If your air speed is significantly lower than the wind speed, you can never gain back controll. The plane is blowing in the wind instead of flying through it.

If you get the plane flying faster, it wont care if the wind is blowing because it will have enough air flow over the surfaces to do some good.

You're going to cover a lot of ground fast though - maybe in the wrong direction.

My throws on the standard sized one are several inches each way Maybe 5 or 6 times what you have.

I haven't measured it but Id bet I have maybe 3+ inches of rudder travel each way and at least that much elevator each way. I get more than 45 degrees of throw on all surfaces. I also fly with about 70% expo on all surfaces.

Now - that's me. That's the way I like it. I also fly with the CG way back compared to how most people fly these birds. That combination gives me extreme control even at way slooooow speeds or in hi winds. I can also fly at hi speed but I only kiss the sticks very gently. At speed with a rear cg and max throws these things can get wild in a hurry - especially the small ones.

Where is your CG? A forward cg will also make the plane less maneuverable. Its easier to fly, but wont respond to controll inputs as well. Its a sliding scale. The further forward the CG is the more stable and less maneuverable the plane is. As you move the cg back, it gets more and more responsive - especially in elevator - until eventually you reach a point where you cannot controll the plane. It wont maintain straight and level flight.

You need to adjust the cg and control throws to a point where you are comfortable.

I would recommend you gradually increase control throws in small steps. When you start to feel like its getting too wild, back off a bit. At the same time, move the cg back in small steps again until it gets to much. Do it in small steps.

I'll repeat this again - air speed has a lot to do with it. At sloooow speeds this thing is as tame and stable as they come. Speed up to full throttle and its likely to get wild.

This plan form can be very tame and stable or it can be wildly crazy. Air speed, cg and throws are the three things that work together to decide how tame or wild it is.

[stevenwill]

Thank you Larry,

I will have to adjust my throws a lot, a hell of a lot!
My cg is between 200mm and 250mm (7.87- 9 inches) from the leading edge, she seems to float nicely at this point. I cannot give you a more accurate figure at present as the stab is still flapping around.
The motor is a brushless Himark C2808 1720 and I am using a three cell lipo for power.

Thank you very much for all the help, with more throw on the surfaces I am sure this is going to be a lot of fun.

Regards Steve

[Larry3215]

Your CG sounds like its in the ball park. Not far from where I fly mine.

Id go easy on increasing the throws. It will get very very responsive - especially at speed

[stevenwill]

Larry what would you recommend to start with? The throws that is.

[Larry3215]

Sorry for the slow reply!

Id double the throws you have now and see how you like it. Increase again as you get to feeling comfortable with how it flys.

Remember, I am the exception to the rule for how most people have thiers set up. I like flying them on the edge

[Larry3215]

It occurs to me I should ask you how big your controll surfaces are? Especially the rudder. That makes a big difference on the throws as far as how many inches of throw.

Can you post a picture of your Capricorn? That would help me see whats up.

All my control surfaces are way over sized compared to any "normal" plane. I also set mine to get as much throw as is physically possible with the servos and call it good.

My minimum is 45 degrees each way.

Again, thats not for everyone.

[stevenwill]

Hi Larry,

Here are some pics of my version still needing repair! The elavator measurements are not very clear. So the elavator inners are 220 mm and 250 mm for the outers. (8.66 inches and 9.84 inches respectivly). Slight difference in myne is I added a flat piece for the sposons to glue to.
Steve

[Larry3215]

Looks good to me Steve.

Id gradually increase the throws until your happy with it.

[stevenwill]

Here we go all repaired and ready to go, have adjusted the control linkages. Just need to make final adjustment on the controls and add a bit of exponetial and ready to fly! Also made a little mod to the stab so hopefully if she flips over she wont break again.
Can't wait to get her back up.

[Larry3215]

That looks good Steve. Ive seen lots of guys do that on the rudder. It should be a good bit stronger.

[Larry3215]

I picked up one of those cheapo pen cams that's shaped like a pack of gum and about the same size.

The instructions are horrible - a barely understandable translation but I thought I finally understood how it worked and managed to get it to record some video.

I didn't have it all figured out because even though I charged it for several hours, the battery went dead after about 3 minutes of recording!

It took me several hours of trial and error but I can charge it successfully now so maybe next time it will turn out better

I need to work on the sound - the air blast from the prop makes it horrible.

I also need to shock mount it somehow I think. There was a lot of distortion in this video that wasn't there in other tests I shot. I'm assuming it's vibration causing it. Shooting some tests just holding it in my hand the video quality is actually half decent.

Anyway - here is my first ever aireal video - such as it is

YouTube Video

[stevenwill]

Neat Flight, great idea. Did you notice the way the rudder flexs if you give it a large input.

[Larry3215]

Yeah, thats one of the reasons I wanted the cam facing the back. I wanted to see how large the throws were in the air. But then I decided to take it easy on that flight because Ive seen videos of wild aerobatics and all it does is make you sick to watch it

Im going back out today and re-try with the cam facing different directions and with some shock mounting.

Im also going to try some full throw manovers. I still want to see if Im getting full throws in the air compared to what I get on the ground or if the surfaces are bending under the air loads. Im especially interested in the rudder. As you noticed, it flexes a lot.

[Larry3215]

I have some more videos using that cheep GUM cam. Its a lot harder doing aerial videos than I thought - good ones at least!

I also went to a float fly this weekend. There were a bunch of pilots from all over the area and a large spectator crowd.

I was showing off and caught a gust of wind under the wing on the Mega. My wife just happened to be shooting at just the right/wrong time

Here is an attempt at some air-to-air video with the cam on the Mega.

YouTube Video

And here is my dumb thumb for the weekend

[LipoPilot]

Originally Posted by Larry3215

I have some more videos using that cheep GUM cam. Its a lot harder doing aerial videos than I thought - good ones at least!

I also went to a float fly this weekend. There were a bunch of pilots from all over the area and a large spectator crowd.

I was showing off and caught a gust of wind under the wing on the Mega. My wife just happened to be shooting at just the right/wrong time

Here is an attempt at some air-to-air video with the cam on the Mega.

YouTube Video

And here is my dumb thumb for the weekend

Dumb Thumb

Looks more like someone is building a fanfold plane hangar on your lake, geez the size of that odd machine...The picture is priceless...I dont know if the guys on the dock are trying to figure out what it is or how to get it back LOL. I also wonder if the chap with the board is thinking about railing on your plane, does at that angle look like one of them skateboard contraption. Great stuff, I really believe I have influenced people to show the real side of RC..we all goof, just some more then others..as I said priceless.

As far as the camera larry, your right, foam wrap the camera you will get a steady film, or as steady as a gum camera will do. The vibration does effect the video because its actually not video, its a crap load of pictures being taking, the vibration you see is the blur in the photo taking process. Most micro cameras shoot in almost still motion style filming. Anyhow I saw this video first on youtube before it was posted here, very good job man, it was so cool to see your runway below, great no puke flight

With the sound, forget doing anything about it unless you plan to cover the mic or disconnect it. Because it is suppose to be used for spying on people not on planes, the mic is very sensitive to sound, it picks up convos better. The key to getting the volume more on airplane sound is use your movie maker to cut the volume back. If you watch any of my videos you notice the motor always sounds nice and plane like, this is because I turn back the volume 75%, so all you hear is the whine of the brushless, not super imposed wind blowing by. Been using onboard sometime and I battled the same issues, maybe some of this will help you.

[Larry3215]

Yeah, Im slowly learning how to do decent videos. Now I see why guys had dedicated video planes. My giant foamies are not the best choices. Huge props, floppy construction and they get blown around a lot in rough air AND I tend to fly like a drunk!

The good thing is this is a cheep way to get started. I dunked the camera in the lake in the shot above but after a day of drying it out it seems to work just fine

I have a half decent older mini DV camcorder I may try to get in the air. Its big and heavy, but it should take good shots. The mega Capricorn wouldnt even notice it was on board

[LipoPilot]

Originally Posted by Larry3215

Yeah, Im slowly learning how to do decent videos. Now I see why guys had dedicated video planes. My giant foamies are not the best choices. Huge props, floppy construction and they get blown around a lot in rough air AND I tend to fly like a drunk!

The good thing is this is a cheep way to get started. I dunked the camera in the lake in the shot above but after a day of drying it out it seems to work just fine

I have a half decent older mini DV camcorder I may try to get in the air. Its big and heavy, but it should take good shots. The mega Capricorn wouldnt even notice it was on board

Flying with a camera is very addicting, can be used for plane observation, ground views, just a ton of things, the fun part is learning, then comes the time where you catch something cool, maybe a close shot of another plane or in our case buzzards LOL. Keep it up larry your flying over some pretty country, I want to see more. Make you alittle slow stick type plane and put the gum stick on it...up up up and away, works well for tiny cams.

[lee]

Merry Christmas,

It's been a while since I posted here and wanted to catch up on the holiday greetings. I haven't forgotten you. We have even more houses for sale in the neighborhood so if any of you flyers are looking for a great club we will get you in touch with a great real estate agent in our area.

I have spent the last few days updating and building some new LED light sets for night flying on a new 1.9 lb EPP foam Capricorn I am building. The Capricorn makes a great night plane because the angles are easy to light. The thin EPP catches the light and really shines in the dark. I'll see if I can post some video when I get it up.

Larry

You posted a great comparison of the water weight gain of the different foams awhile ago. I have looked and looked and can't seem to find it. It was such good information that I hate to loose it. Can you please link me to where it is. Thanks.

I haven't been watching, I must admit, but have been wondering what KF airfoil research if any is being done to see if it improves the flying characteristics of the Capricorn

The Capricorn is still one of the best flatfoam planes out there. For all you lurkers stop lurking and start building. Larry really has a great design here.

Lee

Just for fun my first Capricorn video revisited:

http://www.vimeo.com/1344589

Links to LED lighting. Check out the pictures.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=18

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=17


.

[Larry3215]

Welcome back and Happy New Year to you too

Im looking forward to seeing how the EPP Capricorn works out as well as your latest lighting setup.

I will search for that post on foam/water but as I recall, all the ones I tested were virtually impervious to water with little to no absorbsion over a few hours time.

I think I tested a 4 hour submersion which is far longer than most people will spend in the water on any given day.

I tried plain old ice chest styrofoam, pink building insulation styrofoam, blue building insulation styrofoam, pool noodle foam (had the highest "cling" weight gain) and Depron.

I dont recall if I had any EPP but many thers have reported that EPP absorbs some water.

[Larry3215]

I found the post - I had mis-remembered slightly.

OK, I got tired of waiting

After 4 hours here are trhe results:

Depron, pink foam, blue foam = zero extra weight gain over the "cling" amount.

Pool noodle may have gained .5 gms - hard to say as my scale was bobbing back and forth between the same reading and .5 gms more. If so - not much.

Beaded styro went from 13.5 gms damp to 15 grams in only about an hour - I was late getting it started.

So the beaded stuff does soak up water over time.

All the other foams I wouldnt worry about unless maybe your going to leave it parked in the water full time

Larry

[Larry3215]

Oh, forgot to talk about the KF airfoil.

I have to admit I havent tried any KF airfoils - although there IS a step on my versions of the Capricorn - so Im no expert.

However, I am fairly confident its more hype and wishfull thinking than fact

I know - lots of people swear by them. I think they are all deluded and have too many electrons loose in their brains