Wattflyer RC Network: RC Universe :: RCU Magazine :: RCU Forums :: RCU Classifieds :: RCU User Reviews :: RCU YouTube
Home Who's Online Calendar Today's Posts RealTime Post Spy Mark Forums Read
Go Back   WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > General Electric Discussions
Register Members List Wattflyer Extras Articles Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Social Groups

General Electric Discussions Talk about topics related to e-powered RC flying

Thank you for your support (hide ads)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-27-2012, 01:01 PM   #251
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,362
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Originally Posted by Mike N View Post
hello Ed,

Thank you for this awesome mini book for beginners. I'm new to this, i'm into cars not planes but it seems everywhere on the Internet the best guides and tutorials are written by the planes and heli communities.
After reading this and a couple of other articles and guides i'm still left with some questions.

1) You say that the Amps are a measure of how much water flows through a pipe at a given time. Just so that I can understand it better let's continue this analogy a bit.
So if I keep the same A let's say for a value of 10A and 10V the pipe will have a certain diameter. But if I up the value and go up to 40V will the pipe have the same diameter to keep the same 10A ? I believe it should be a much smaller diameter to keep the same amp flow and I understand that is how you define Resistance for a given electric system.
So for batteries that have the same capacity but different voltages and for the sake of simplicity the same C rating the battery with the higher voltage should also have a higher internal resistance am I right ?

2) I've recently bought a brushless motor that the manufacturer says it handles voltages up to 8.4 V. So I assume that if I give it a higher voltage than this, for example a 3S LiPo pack 11.1V it will turn it beyond its capabilities and it will start to heat up right and probably the bearings wil be overstressed ?

I think I have a couple of other stuff to ask but I'll first read your posts again to see if I still have them.

Thanks,
Mike
Battery internal resistance is a bit beyond the scope of this book as it is not something we, the average guy, can measure easily. And I am not sure I can do it justice. However look to the C rating to get a feeling for internal resistance. Higher C packs will tend to have lower internal resistance, as I understand it.

In your analogy, the diamater of the pipe is what limits the water flow just as the diamater of the wire limits current flow. If you are well below the flow limit of the pipe you might have to make the pipe smaller to maintain a constant flow, but then why are you turning up the pressure. More likely you would use a valve to limit the water flow. For a given pipe you can turn up the pressue and you will get more flow ... up to a point, then the pipe bursts.

So it is with electricity. You turn up the voltage enough and you will breach the insulators. Turn up the amperage enough and you will overheat things. So there is a limt to what a pipe or a wire can take.

What we are shooting for is watts, or the abiltiy to do work. So it is A * V = W that is the ultimate equation here.

If we are trying to achieve 100 W/pound for a 1 pound plane, we have various combinations that will multiply to 100. So we can choose different motors/battery/prop combos to get things to 100 watts.

Hope that helps.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2012, 02:59 PM   #252
Mike N
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

IN my pipe analogy I was trying to explain to myself the equation I=V/r (where I denotes amps and r = resistance).
If we keep I constant but increase the voltage then r should increase proportionally. That is why I think that for a given pipe diameter at 10A 10V we should then shrink the diameter of the pipe to keep the current flow the same. Smaller diameter = higher resistance . Of course this might not be practical in battery design or real life situations but I was just trying to understand a concept.

If my motor can only handle 8.4V and the ESC can handle a maximum of 40A then I should choose a battery pack that doesn't exceed said voltage and a prop and gearbox that would not make my motor request more than 30-35A since going to the limits of the ESC would be stretching it. Am I right ?

And since this motor can only handle 8.4V going above this I would stress out the bearings and probably other components that have to do with the rotating mass of the engine ?

Thanks.
Mike N is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2012, 06:56 PM   #253
slipstick
Super Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: N.Staffs, UK
Posts: 2,350
Thanked 197 Times in 191 Posts
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default

Forget about pipes for a minute. If you increase voltage and leave the load (resistance) the same the current will increase. If you want to get the current back down to the original value you have to reduce the load (equals roughly increasing resistance). In our real world we do that by using a smaller propeller (no idea about cars). BUT NOTE - what we're talking about is the EXTERNAL load resistance. NOT the internal resistance of the battery. Different things all together.

And yes it's a good idea to keep the voltage limit specified by the motor manufacturer but note that there are other (current and power) limits which are also provided by all decent manufacturers. Exceeding the voltage (by a bit) usually does less immediate damage than exceeding the others.

Steve
slipstick is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 01:49 AM   #254
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,362
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Cool

Originally Posted by Mike N View Post
IN my pipe analogy I was trying to explain to myself the equation I=V/r (where I denotes amps and r = resistance).
If we keep I constant but increase the voltage then r should increase proportionally. That is why I think that for a given pipe diameter at 10A 10V we should then shrink the diameter of the pipe to keep the current flow the same. Smaller diameter = higher resistance . Of course this might not be practical in battery design or real life situations but I was just trying to understand a concept.

If my motor can only handle 8.4V and the ESC can handle a maximum of 40A then I should choose a battery pack that doesn't exceed said voltage and a prop and gearbox that would not make my motor request more than 30-35A since going to the limits of the ESC would be stretching it. Am I right ?

And since this motor can only handle 8.4V going above this I would stress out the bearings and probably other components that have to do with the rotating mass of the engine ?

Thanks.
Yes, you are right.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 08:44 AM   #255
Mike N
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Thanks for answering.
Mike N is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 11:49 PM   #256
flyingjay
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default My transmitter has no traner switch

HI flyingjay hear, I have a p51-D V7 1400mm from FMS. trying to perform a radio system range check but the transmitter has no traner switch so i'm not abbel to the system check. The manual seys to do so but dont show me how. PLEASE HELP ME!
flyingjay is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2013, 04:38 PM   #257
mred
Super Contributor
 
mred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glenwood, GA
Posts: 1,019
Thanked 143 Times in 138 Posts
Awards Showcase

45 Minute Thermal Duration  30 Minute Thermal Duration 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (3)
Default

Originally Posted by slipstick View Post
Forget about pipes for a minute. If you increase voltage and leave the load (resistance) the same the current will increase. If you want to get the current back down to the original value you have to reduce the load (equals roughly increasing resistance). In our real world we do that by using a smaller propeller (no idea about cars). BUT NOTE - what we're talking about is the EXTERNAL load resistance. NOT the internal resistance of the battery. Different things all together.

And yes it's a good idea to keep the voltage limit specified by the motor manufacturer but note that there are other (current and power) limits which are also provided by all decent manufacturers. Exceeding the voltage (by a bit) usually does less immediate damage than exceeding the others.

Steve
Steve,

You also need to worry about the voltage of the ESC in addition to the motor. Either one could burn out, but the ESC is more important then the motor is. It will take more voltage for short periods unlike the ESC that will simply burn out. The ESC does not like over voltage one bit. Add an extra cell and the ESC could burn out as soon as you connect it to the battery. That totally depends on what it is rated for. If it is rated for 3 cells and you hook up 4, it will be gone before you know it is going.

Ed
mred is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2013, 09:06 AM   #258
Johnny MacD
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

A really super primer for all but can you please tell me how to print the pdf version?

Assuming that I was to construct something like the Multiplex Twin Star, which has an excellent sea level performance, what modifications would I need to make to fly it at 7000 feet with temperatures around 0 deg (F). Will the lower air density mean that the brushless motor is essential and what are the battery problems at these low temperatures?
Whatever model I end up building, it would need a power reserve to carry a camera to photograph the glaciers around my mountain home and power to combat katabatic down currents.
Thanking you for your comments.
Johnny MacD is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2013, 11:31 AM   #259
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,362
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

All you do is print the PDF. Not sure what kind of problem you are having. In the table of contents you will find the location of the PDF.

As for adjusting for altitude, you would want to use the Electricalc or Motorcalc for that. See the chapter on sizing power systems.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 03:20 PM   #260
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,362
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

ESTIMATING BATTERY RUN TIME
by Ed Anderson
Updated 6-6-14


Since this comes up so often it is worth posting by itself.


THE AMP HOUR CALCULATION METHOD

Note that a 1300 mAH pack = 1.3 AH pack

m = mili which means 1/1000. Just two ways of expressing the same number.

Capacity in AH / amp draw X 60 = minutes of run time.

1.3 AH / 8 amps = .1625 hours

.1625 X 60 = 9.75 minutes at 8 amps.

This assumes you use up all the useful battery capacity, not that you are running the battery to zero voltage. It also assumes that the battery can actually deliver its total rated capacity before the LVC, low voltage cut-off, kicks in to keep you from running it too low. See the end for more on this.

Normally you don't run at full throttle all the time. For mixed flying that is probably more like 15 minutes. I usually estimate mixed flying time at 150% of the calculation but your actual experience will differ based on how you fly.

When estimating useful flying time out of a pack, be conservative, then watch it over several flights to get your true number. This calculation is for planning purposes.

If you are sizing a power system for a plane, part of that sizing should include the duration of the battery pack.


THE AMP MINUTE CALCULATED METHOD

Another approach is to convert everything to amp minutes.

A 1300 mah battery = a 1.3 amp hour battery

1.3 amp hours = 1.3X60 = 78 amp minutes.

Your plane draws 12 amps at full throttle. How long will this battery last?

78 amp minutes/12 amps = 6.5 minutes.

Assuming you never fully drain the pack I would use about 75% of that or about 4.9 minutes. This leaves some reserve and does not over drain the pack.


ANOTHER QUICK ESTIMATE METHOD

Above is the more precise way to calculate run time. However I usually use this quick estimate method.

If the battery can delvier 1.3 amps for one hour then it can deliver 13 amps for 1/10 of an hour ( 6 minutes )

In this example, we are only drawing about 2/3 of that ( 8 amps) , so the run time will be about 1/3 longer than 6 minutes, about 8 minutes. Just a quick estimate method I use. Not as exact, just a quick approximation that I can do in my head.

However, your actual run time will vary by battery quality, how hard you are pushing the pack, the LVC setting on the ESC and how much time you spend at what throttle setting.

For example, if you run your 20C pack at 20C you will get greater voltage sag then if you run it at 10C. The greater voltage sag will cause you to hit the LVC sooner than if you run the same pack at 10C.

In actual flying you will likely be flying at partial throttle at times which will reduce the draw and extend the time. You might get twice the estimated full throttle time if you do a lot of partial throttle flying.

When working with e-gliders, where we typically only run the motor for short bursts the time could be much longer. My Radian's battery is only good for about 3 minutes at full throttle. Since I have the motor off most of the time and I know how to ride thermals, that battery typically lasts me an hour.


THE EFFECT OF C RATING ON PACK PERFORMANCE

While several battery packs may be "rated" at a given C rating we can see significant variation on how well they actually work at this rating. The higher priced, higher quality battery packs tend to be better at running at this extreme end of their abilty. The lower cost packs may not live up to that rating quite as well. But it can vary from brand to brand and pack to pack.

I typically don't plan to run my packs at greater than 80% of their stated continuous C rating. So if that 1.3 AH pack I used in the example ( possibly a Radian pack for example ) is rated at 15C then you would expect it could run at 15 X 1.3 amps or 19.5 amps and maintain a good voltage of 10.5 to 11.1 Volts for most of its useful capacity. Well some can and some can't.

I would look at that pack and say that I would plan to never run it sustained at more than 15-16 amps. This would put less stress on the pack and give me more useful capacity in the range that I want.

If you are running in a situation where you only need full power for short bursts, like a 30 second full power climb followed by running most of the time at about 2/3 throttle, than the pack might handle 19.5 amps quite well for those short bursts.

Some packs have sustained ratings and peak ratings. I ignore the peak ratings.

To understand more on batteries see chapters 5 and 6.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 03:23 PM   #261
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,362
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

How To Select Your First Radio

by Ed Anderson

If you go through the beginner section on any of the major forums you will see this question, or some version of it over and over again. And you will see it in the advanced flying sections too. That’s because the radio is the single most important tool you will use to fly your model aircraft. Without the radio control system there is no radio control flying. So, how to choose?

If you are totally new, never flown, and if you are going to learn without using a buddy box, I usually recommend an RTF, ready to fly package that includes the airplane, radio, all the electronics already installed in the plane. It usually includes the battery and charger too. This eliminates so many decisions and considerations and points of confusion. This lets the pilot focus on learning to fly. Which RTF? That is a question for another discussion but there are lots of good ones out there. They all come with a radio that should be adequate to the task of flying that plane. And the value of the radio, in that package, is typically so small that even if you never use it for anything else, that’s OK.

Once you have your basic flying skills down, NOW we can start to discuss what you want and need in a radio that will carry you forward. You will have more time to read and talk to other pilots so you will have begun to learn about the aspects of RC flying. You will be better prepared to understand the information below and to address the questions we will ask as we try to guide you.


Standard vs. Computer Radios

A standard radio is one without model memories and usually very little, if any mixing capabilities. The Spektrum DX5e or the Hitec Laser 4 would be examples of standard radios. Standard radios are fine when you get them in RTFs or if you plan to have a dedicated radio for each plane. Otherwise get a radio that has model memories, usually called a computer radio. Enough on that topic.


Brands vs. Off Brands

There a lots of good radios out there. The major brands in North America are Futaba, JR, Spektrum, Hitec and Airtronics. I am going to add Tactic here as it is sold and supported by Hobbico, a major distributor/retailer that also distributes Futaba. I don’t think Tactic’s market share is all that big but I think it is going to grow.

All others have relatively small market shares, but that doesn’t mean they are bad. The major brands are all safe bets and all have great service. You will find those who love one over the other and those who hate one vs. the other. But in the end, they all have good products. If you go outside these brands you may get a great radio too but the level of service and support may not be up to the standards of the brands. So if you go outside the brands, consider where you will get help if you need it. Going “off brand” can be quite easy if your friend has one or if you a member of a forum with lots of users of this radio.


Budget

How much are you willing to spend? As you shop for radios notice that radios often come packaged with other stuff. That might be receivers, servos, cables, switches, etc. When you evaluate the price of one radio vs. another you MUST take into account what is included in the package. A $150 radio is not cheaper than a $180 radio package that comes with a $50 receiver.

The more you can spend, the more capable radio you can buy and the less important the rest of the questions become. Once you get over $400 for one of the brand name radios, they all pretty much can do what you are likely to need to do to fly almost anything, as long as they have enough channels. You will get all kinds of opinions from advanced pilots as to what is better for what, but they are talking shades of gray here. If you can spend $400 or more on a major brand radio, then buy whatever you like or whatever your friend has or what you see in the champion pilots flying in the radio ads.

If you don’t have $400 for a radio, then you have to be more selective. But you can still get a very capable radio for under $250. You just have to be a little more specific as we start finding limitations. Of course these limitation may not matter to you so don’t feel you are buying junk. Just maybe you are not buying a lot of stuff you don’t need.

When discussing budget, state a number. Asking for an inexpensive radio means nothing. When considering my needs, I consider $250, for the radio alone, an inexpensive radio. How about you? No matter what it is, start with a number. Does you budget include a receiver? Servos? State a number and then define it.

Naturally there are lots of used radios. Buying used radio is like buying a used car, it may be great or it may be a dog. When you buy used you take a risk. As long as you accept that, you can consider used. My two main radios were purchased used.

Last, forget about the “best” radio or the one that will last you the rest of your flying career. There is no best and we all tend to want to trade up after a while. But even a basic 6 channel computer radio can serve you for decades of flying fun if your needs are basic. I have friends who have been flying for decades, who are instructors and who are flying radios that they love but that would not meet my needs at all.


Trainer Port

Trainer ports have two main uses, working with a simulator and attaching to a buddy box. Will you be working with an instructor using a buddy box? If so, what radios will work with your instructor’s radio? If you are buying a simulator and want it to work with your radio, make sure the trainer port on your radio will work with that simulator. Buying a cool radio then not being able to get flying instructions or working with our simulator really doesn’t work well.


Types of Aircraft



Computer radios typically have some level of software for airplanes and most include some type of helicopter software too. This software can go from basic to advanced and usually the more advanced the software the higher the price of the radio. Many do not include specific software for sailplanes/gliders which are the same thing for the purposes of this discussion. That does not mean that you can’t use them to fly gliders. Gliders are just specialized forms of airplanes. What it means is that the radio’s software will not include the special mixes that many gliders pilots want. So, if you plan to fly gliders you may wish to look for a radio that includes glider mixes. If gliders/sailplanes are in your plans then read this article:
http://www.flyesl.org/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=223


There are also quad copters, aerial photography and first person view as other forms of flying. They may require special software or they may require extra channels. Before you buy a radio, talk to people who do this kind of flying. It would be very disappointing to buy a radio only to find it can’t fly the aircraft you just purchased.


How Does it Feel in Your Hand?

For many pilots this is the deciding factor between multiple radio choices. Let’s face it, we each have different hands, different size hands and how the radio feels in our hands matters. One of my good flying buddies purchased the same radio I have. I love it. However he hates how it feels in his hands so he purchased something else. If possible, try to pick up several different radios and see how they feel. Can you easily put the sticks in the far corners? Are the switches convenient? If it has side or rear sliders, are they convenient to work and reach? Don’t overlook the feel. For many this is the key factor.


How Many Channels?

While there are some interesting four and five channel computer radios, I am going to recommend you get a computer radios with six or more channels. I don't see any real benefit for having less than six channels, as the cost difference is small and the benefits of 6 or more channels is high. Even if you are flying a rudder elevator glider or 3 channel electric airplane today, next year you may be adding ailerons and flaps and landing gear. So get a radio that can handle at least that, and that would be 6 channels.

Why would you ever need more? Here is a typical channel breakdown, regardless of whether you are flying electric, glow, gas or gliders, giant scale or highly detailed scale models. Jets, advanced helicopters, first person view (FPV) may have other needs, but it still comes down to channels.

Rudder – 1 or 2
Elevator - 1 or 2
Ailerons - 1 to 4
Spoilers - 1 or 2
Flaps - 1 to 2
Tow hook - 1
Landing gear - 1
Motor – 1 to 2
Smoke, lights, Other – 1 to ?

That makes 4, 5, 6, up to 18 channels depending on what kind of aircraft you have and how you set it up. So how many do you need?

In my opinion, most sport flyers will be well served for a long time with a 6 channel entry to mid level sport computer radio but more channels could come in handy in the future. If you are planning to become a more serious competition pilot, plan to fly giant scale, full house sailplanes, jets or are very interested in having cameras, lights, smoke or other things on your plane, that you can control from the radio plan for more than 6 channels.



Basic Features

Most currently available new computer radios offer the following features. Regardless of what you are flying, I highly recommend your radio have these features.

* Model Memories (at least 10)
* Low Battery Warning
* Trims on the channels controlled by the stick(s).
* Timer – highly recommended but not required

* End Point Adjustment/Adjustable Travel Volume
* Subtrim (fine centering on the servos during set-up)

* Dual Rates and Exponential on ailerons and elevator.
If you are flying 3D you want these on the rudder too.
* Elevon/delta wing and V-tail mixes



If it doesn’t have at least these, don’t buy it!


Model Memories



How many planes do you plan to own and fly? Twenty years ago, when everyone was building kits, when electronics were costly, you might have 2 planes flying and maybe 3 in the hanger without servos, receiver or a motor. Oh, there were always guys with 30 planes, but if you had 3 models flyable then 3 model memories were plenty. Today, I would consider 10 the minimum. Planes are cheap, electronics are cheap and “bind and fly” types are so easy to pick up and take flying. Some radios will now let you save models to a memory card or to download them to your computer. If you can save aircraft profiles outside the radio, 10 model memories are probably plenty to hold what you are currently actively flying. If you can’t save them then I would consider 10 an absolute minimum. More is always better.


Type of flying and surface mixes

After model memories, surface mixes are one of the great features that computer radios bring to the game. Input to one control can move 2 or more servos in a coordinated fashion to create the kind of surface control you need. I use some mixes that move 5 servos at once. This can reduce the pilot's workload while providing very consistent behavior. In some cases these mixes can be overridden during the flight or can be turned on and off.

In the list below, where two surfaces are listed, the first is the master and the second follows, sometimes called the slave channel. The following list is what I would consider the minimum set I would want in even an entry level radio. They may be named mixes or they may be able to be created by “user mixes”.


* Flapperon - requires two aileron servos on separate channels
* Aileron to rudder mix (coordinated turns)
* Flap to elevator mixing for landing and glide path control.

* At least 1 user defined mix after the above.

You should find these on even the most entry level computer radio. If it doesn’t have these, I would recommend you don’t buy it.

For many pilots this is all they will ever need. But if you plan to get into full house sailplanes, competition pattern flying or other advanced forms of flying you may need other mixes. Talk to friends and people on the forums to ask them what mixes they use. Some are only available in those much more expensive radios so don’t put them on your required list unless you have the budget and REALLY need it. Remember, people flew RC aircraft for decades with 4 channel radios without any surface mixing, and so can you.


Receiver Selection


Without the receiver, the radio is useless, so receiver selection is important. If you are flying larger planes you may have lots of room for the receiver, but if you are flying small planes, the size and weight of the receiver can be critical. Putting a 1 ounce receiver in a 6 ounce plane just doesn’t make sense and it likely won’t fit. If you are into indoor flying or micro planes you want them really small and light. Some brands offer “bricks” that are ultra light packages that combine the receiver with the ESC and perhaps servos. If this is your interest, make sure your radio brand has these available.

If you have a 6 channel radio you can use a receiver that has more than 6 channels. Sometimes we use those extra slots for things that the radio does not control, like plane finders. So having receivers available with more slots than your radio can control might be useful.

Most 2.4 GHz radios have very specific protocols that are used for the radio to talk to the receiver. In many cases you must buy the same brand of receiver as radio. And in some cases there are different protocols within the brand. For example, Futaba has FASST and FHSS radios in their line. The receivers are specific to the protocol. So a Futaba FHSS radio can’t fly a Futaba FASST receiver even though they are both Futaba 2.4 GHz systems.

In the 72 MHz days it was common to find “compatible” receivers. For example, you could buy a Hitec or Berg receiver to use with your, Futaba, JR or Airtronics radio. That went away with the dawn of 2.4 GHz, but compatible receivers are now becoming available. Today there are compatible receivers for Spektrum/JR DSM2, Futaba FASST and Hitec AFHSS 2.4 GHz radios. There may be others as well. If the cost of receivers is important to you, and you would consider compatibles, then this may help influence your choice of radios.


Bind and Fly/TX-R/others

In the old days, 10 years ago, you purchased a plane and put a receive in it that worked with your radio. Today you can buy planes that are all set to go including servos, and receiver. That is great, but you have to have a matching radio in order to fly them. Horizon Hobby has a huge line of BnF, Bind and Fly planes. If you have a Spektrum or JR DSM2 or DSMX radio you can just buy these planes, bind them to your radio and go fly.

Hobbico also has the line of transmitter ready, TX-R, planes. Their Tactic radios work with these TX-R planes. However they also have an external module, the AnyLink, that will work with many radios. Once you have an AnyLink module can fly any of their TX-R planes with a variety of brands of radios.

If BnF or TX-R matters to you, then you want a radio that will work with these aircraft. Not everyone cares, but if you do, take this into consideration.


Other Features

There are all kinds of special features appearing on radios. Telemetry, touch screens, the ability to update the software over the internet and so on. How important are these? You decide. Talk to those who love them and those who laugh at them, then make your decision.


The Best and the Last

People ask which is the best radio. There is no best. The best is the one that you can’t afford or that will be released 6 months after you buy the one you bought. So don’t worry about the best, concern yourself with what will work for you, your budget and your flying style. All of the major brands are good. And there are many “off brands” that are good as well.

Some people want to buy the radio that will last them a lifetime. Well, even and entry level computer radio can fulfill that, if your requirements never exceed the capability of the radio. But the fact is that we all get the bug to upgrade. So my suggestion is to look at something you feel will last you 3 to 5 years. Who knows what you will want in a radio 5 years from now. Ten years ago we did not have 2.4 GHz radios or radios that could be upgraded over the internet. So forget the forever radio. In the world of computers and electronics, 5 years is forever.

Now that we have covered the basics it is time for you to ask questions. Read the advertisements, look at the boxes, talk to friends and ask your questions. We are all here to help.


Resources:

Most of the major radio makers have a customer support forum on RC Universe.
Good place to see what kinds of questions/issues are being discussed.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_52/tt.htm

Radio Discussions – Some of the threads are HUGE.
RC Universe
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_224/tt.htm
RC Groups
http://www.rcgroups.com/radios-135/

It can be hard to separate fact from opinion or outright fiction but
at least you can see what is being discussed. Great place to ask questions.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 04:06 PM   #262
pizzano
Behold The Renaissance
 
pizzano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 1,196
Thanked 76 Times in 74 Posts
Club: AMA, Marks, Pomona Valley, Prado Dam
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (3)
Default Everything You Wanted To Know About Electric Powered Flight

Ed......

Your Manual is a great tool for almost all levels of RC pilots and builders and having it available at more than one forum is a nice feature as well....
I originally became acquainted with it at another forum and eventually referred to it here at WattFlyer... and still do!

I was wonder if there would be a way, here, that it could be broken down into specific chapters or volumes of topic......and still maintain it's completeness....like a sub-title set of stickies, yet still be accessed from one main subject heading dedicated specifically to the manual.....?

I've seen this done and have been apart of such on another heli forum and it really helped members and all readers navigate the document must faster and saved a lot of time without needing to refer back to each individual thread that was referenced in the main body of the text.

I'm sure it would be a bit time consuming initially, but since your manual is somewhat well compartmentilized buy heading throughout the document, it could be just a matter of formating each sub-catagory, providing a chapter or volume ID, cut and pasting the text and assigning an individual sticky to each heading (chapter/volume)........

Just a thought.....I realize you've put a lot of time, research and energy into it already, and there really isn't anything quite like it or as indepth at other sites except those you have currently assigned.....and appears to have a life of it's own that continues grow......and I'm sure will one day be "officially" published as a complete volume for all RC folks to enjoy!

I (for one) appreciate your commitment to the subject and continued knowledge seeking enthusiasm!

Thanks!

AMA 928214
pizzano is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 04:43 PM   #263
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,362
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Interesting thoughts.

Many of the articles existed before the e-book so they are out there, though perhaps in older form.

The book is broken down into chapters that are outlined in the table of contents, TOC, in the first post. It is there to assist people in finding what they need.

While a read only book would give me more control of the organization, I published in this format, so that people could ask questions and share their knowledge. I find the posts between the chapters to be valuable additions to the content of the book. They raise content I did not think to cover and they clarify points that may not have been as clear as they could be. A well stated question can bring a lot of value to a topic.


But I will give some thought to your suggestions. Ideas are always welcome and this format allows me to work with them. Thanks.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 06:33 PM   #264
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,362
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Cool

Originally Posted by pizzano View Post
Ed......

Your Manual is a great tool for almost all levels of RC pilots and builders and having it available at more than one forum is a nice feature as well....
I originally became acquainted with it at another forum and eventually referred to it here at WattFlyer... and still do!

I was wonder if there would be a way, here, that it could be broken down into specific chapters or volumes of topic......and still maintain it's completeness....like a sub-title set of stickies, yet still be accessed from one main subject heading dedicated specifically to the manual.....?

I've seen this done and have been apart of such on another heli forum and it really helped members and all readers navigate the document must faster and saved a lot of time without needing to refer back to each individual thread that was referenced in the main body of the text.

I'm sure it would be a bit time consuming initially, but since your manual is somewhat well compartmentilized buy heading throughout the document, it could be just a matter of formating each sub-catagory, providing a chapter or volume ID, cut and pasting the text and assigning an individual sticky to each heading (chapter/volume)........

Just a thought.....I realize you've put a lot of time, research and energy into it already, and there really isn't anything quite like it or as indepth at other sites except those you have currently assigned.....and appears to have a life of it's own that continues grow......and I'm sure will one day be "officially" published as a complete volume for all RC folks to enjoy!

I (for one) appreciate your commitment to the subject and continued knowledge seeking enthusiasm!

Thanks!
pizzano or anyone else,

I would appreciate your comments.

I played a little with the TOC so that the first few take you to the specific article listed in the TOC. Problem is that it just gives you that isolated post and you do not see what follows in terms of comments or posts, if there are any. You can't just continue on to the next article.

What do you think? I don't care for it. I think there is more value to be had by scrolling to the article and seeing what is before and after. But I am open to comments.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 04:30 PM   #265
pizzano
Behold The Renaissance
 
pizzano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 1,196
Thanked 76 Times in 74 Posts
Club: AMA, Marks, Pomona Valley, Prado Dam
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (3)
Default

Ed.....

I see now the problem you may have setting up a TOC that would take one to a specific section of the manual and still be able to carry over all the responses for discussion.

The way you have it set-up now does seem to provide for search flexibility, but still is a little cumbersome.

I went back and took a look at the old forum where I helped with data input (provided web forum links and model/parts manufactures links).....we actually set-up one master document, then, much like what you've accomplished, within the master, provided links to specific chapters with headers as sticky's.......the reader was able to select a link which took them to a seperate section where the thread allowed for discussion..........it did become some what of a nightmare to manage since, like most forums, there were a number of discussions that drifted off topic which cluttered the thread.........but it allowed for questions, input and provided a decent level of feedback.

Ultimately, the entire manual was split-up into seperate headings that were incorporated into a seperate stand-alone section on the forum......the forum ending up dying due to internal differences, and was brought back to life under a different name and management....became more of a club (still open to the public).......but dedicated to only serious heli and fixed wing guys who happen to belong to a specfic social order.....lol....I'm still a member (one of the originals).....but can't keep up with the kind of $$$ these dudes invest into the new technology and equipment advancements!

I'd be more than willing to help you out in some way, if you decide to modify the document and split it up into a dedicated forum section for such.....I do have the web experience and a few tools that might come in handy.....it will be time consuming......

Just a thought!

AMA 928214
pizzano is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 05:52 PM   #266
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,362
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

I do not have that level of access and really don't think it is worth the effort . I think we will have to leave it as it was.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2013, 07:12 AM   #267
edray999
Eric R
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 22
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Club: AMA, BARKS
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Since I fly electrics, I can post to this thread and achieve my 10th!
edray999 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 02:57 PM   #268
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,362
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

I just updated the article on battery basics - post 10

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 07:59 PM   #269
AEAJR
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,362
Thanked 349 Times in 310 Posts
Club: Long Island Silent Flyers
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot  Outstanding Contributor Award 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

This book has extended beyond the strict focus of electric power system and electric powered flight. The table of contents is contained in the first post.

Here, again, I will add an article/chapter that will be helpful to the electric pliot but is not unique to electric. This is the same process I use for gliders and the same process that one would use for glow, gas and jets. I presume it applies to quads and copters too.

BASIC SERVOS SET-UP PROCESS
by Ed Anderson

If you are using a computer radio, establish a new model in a new memory slot.
For any radio, make sure your trim slides or buttons are centered.
-Bind the receiver to the radio or memory slot

Before you put the servos in the plane connect them to the receiver on the channel
they will be on when mounted. This will center them and you can confirm they work
properly. Better to find out BEFORE you mount them. If you are going to have a
matched pair, such as two flaps servos, see if they move together exactly the same.
There can be slight variations between servos.


Mount the receiver and servos with the control arms off or in a way that you can
remove them if possible. This allows you to re-position the servo arms as part of
the trimming set-up but make sure you can get the screws on the servo arms after
you are done.


-Mount the receiver and servos
-Connect the servos to the receiver

-Confirm you have each servo on the correct channel
-Confirm it is moving in the correct direction – use servo reverse if it is not.
-Connect the servo to the control arm

With the radio on, confirm that all the trims are centered.

Check to see that the control surface is centered and the servo arm will move freely
.....check for binding
.....check for flex of the control rod
.....check for restrictions that might block the servo from moving smoothly

If the surface/servo are not properly centered don't go to the radio first, center the servo mechanically as much as possible.
..... Lift the control horn off and reset it so that the surface is centered
......Adjust the clevis to center the surface.

Set your control throw using mechanical linkages as much as possible
...... use the control horn hole that is closest to the surface for the largest throw – furthest to reduce throw
.......use the servo arm hole that is furthest from the servo for the largest throw – closest to the servo for reduced throw
.......Only after doing this should you use the radio's subtrim, ATV/EPA features to do any centering or control throw adjustments.

When you have one servo right, then do the next till you have them all working correctly.

If you have flaps, make sure they move together, smoothly.

If you have flapperons, make sure they move as flaps together, smoothly.

Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
Eastern Soaring League
www.flyesl.org
AEAJR is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 01:06 PM   #270
tocar64
Tom B
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Thanks! this was very helpful!!!
tocar64 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Reply

  WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > General Electric Discussions

Tags
electric , flight , powered , wanted

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Everything You Wanted To Know About Electric Powered Flight AEAJR Beginners 154 10-20-2014 02:46 PM
The Dawn Of Electric-Powered R/C? Sky Sharkster General Electric Discussions 43 09-05-2009 02:33 PM
LINKS- Electric Powered Gliders Sky Sharkster Hi-Performance and Sailplanes 8 05-02-2007 10:58 PM
Hangar 9 P-40 Electric Powered! rcjake Airplanes - Electric For Sale & WTB 0 09-20-2006 09:18 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:02 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005 WattfFlyer.com
RCU Eflight HQ

Charities we support Select: Yorkie Rescue  ::  Crohn's & Colitis Foundation



Page generated in 0.33488 seconds with 59 queries