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Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

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Old 02-26-2008, 10:13 PM   #1
Anders0n
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Question SoarJet EDF Motor Upgrade?

Motor Gurus! I did a search on soarjet and didn't find anything I haven't already read on the topic.

I'm runing my first EDF and I'm a little lacking for ideas on how to improve the power on the following setup.


Looking for a motor recommendation for this following 3-blade MT1028 Super Flying 66mm Ducted Fan Unit EDF used on my SoarJet. I'm currently running this 3500kv MT2235 Super Flying Model OUTRUNNER Brushless Motor with a 3s 20c 2200mah and am looking for a little more ooopmh.

I'm fairly clueless about inrunners except to focus on the kv rating.

I welcome your feedback.
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:34 PM   #2
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I run a little screamers jetscreamer on a 64 MM fan and it is a bullet
if you want to go inrunner than look at the HET Typhoon motors
The 2w series is designed for 69 MM fans which is close to 66
Typhoons are cheaper than megas and are rated higher also

Dude! Foam isn't supposed to make that noise when it hits the ground!
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:12 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by USMC_VTOL_Mech View Post
I run a little screamers jetscreamer on a 64 MM fan and it is a bullet
if you want to go inrunner than look at the HET Typhoon motors
The 2w series is designed for 69 MM fans which is close to 66
Typhoons are cheaper than megas and are rated higher also
I found the 5100kv jetscreamer @ HL, thanks very much.

Do I really need the Jeti18A "controller" they call out, or can I run my own ESC?
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:19 AM   #4
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AndersOn
You can run your own
You're gonna need around a 30 amp though...possibly 35

Dude! Foam isn't supposed to make that noise when it hits the ground!
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:30 AM   #5
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Cool. It seemed silly to suggest a special 'controller'. I have some spare 30s and 40s

Whats the rest of your setup you run with your screamer?
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:41 AM   #6
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AndersOn
Well I run them in a ME-262
2 64 MM fans, 2 castle 45's and a 3300 Mah 3 or 4 cell


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Dude! Foam isn't supposed to make that noise when it hits the ground!
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Old 02-27-2008, 04:34 AM   #7
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Hi AndersOn
I run these motors in my E-Flight Super Airliner. http://shop.eflypower.com/shop/views.asp?hw_id=1108
You can run them on 3s or 4s packs with a 30amp ESC if your ESC will take a 4s pack. The motor will fit right into the stock fan of the Soar Jet as they are the same as the airliner fan units by SFM. They are very good motors made by Leton and about 1/2 the price of the Hobby Lobby motors. I had them in my airliner for about a year now with no problems. I use them with a 4s pack because my flying club has a grass runway and with the 4s packs I can take off from the ground no hand launching as the airliner is a big bird and comes in at about 3 1/2 lbs and I have plenty of power with these motors.

Keep em flying
raido56/ Herb
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:36 PM   #8
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Thanks guys. I'm going to try the LittleScreamers "JetScreamer" The only mod I think Iíll have to deal with is the 3mm shaft; the current SFM motor is 2.3
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:25 PM   #9
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AndersOn
Check with any friends for a lathe so you can ream the adapter to 3MM
If not any competant machine shop can ream the adapter out for you....it would be a really simple job for them and would only charge a few bucks if that

<p>
Originally Posted by Anders0n View Post
Thanks guys. I'm going to try the <a href="http://www.hobby-lobby.com/littlescreamers.htm" target="_blank">LittleScreamers "JetScreamer" </a></p><ul><li><a href="http://www.hobby-lobby.com/littlescreamers.htm" target="_blank"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font color="#000000">5100 Kv (rpm/volt)</font></font></font></a></li><li><a href="http://www.hobby-lobby.com/littlescreamers.htm" target="_blank"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font color="#000000">38-1/2 grams (1-1/3 oz.) weight</font></font></font></a></li><li><a href="http://www.hobby-lobby.com/littlescreamers.htm" target="_blank"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font color="#000000">130-290 watts</font></font></font></a></li></ul><p>The only mod I think Iíll have to deal with is the 3mm shaft; the current SFM motor is 2.3
</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
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Old 02-28-2008, 04:53 AM   #10
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Default sfm 66mmedf 3 blade

Originally Posted by Anders0n View Post
Motor Gurus! I did a search on soarjet and didn't find anything I haven't already read on the topic.

I'm runing my first EDF and I'm a little lacking for ideas on how to improve the power on the following setup.

Looking for a motor recommendation for this following 3-blade MT1028 Super Flying 66mm Ducted Fan Unit EDF used on my SoarJet. I'm currently running this 3500kv MT2235 Super Flying Model OUTRUNNER Brushless Motor with a 3s 20c 2200mah and am looking for a little more ooopmh.

I'm fairly clueless about inrunners except to focus on the kv rating.

I welcome your feedback.
Try the 3 blade SFM with a Bl430-4050kv Align motor or equivalent.
You will like this setup.
Don't forget to balance the 3 blade.

Don't try too high KV motor as the blade will just shred and fly off so just be careful when you run the EDF at high rpm.

BTW the original SFM 66mm EDF is 6 bladed but
you need to spend time to balance the 6 blade to get it to perform satisfactory.

B5
Cheers
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:00 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Anders0n View Post
Thanks guys. I'm going to try the LittleScreamers "JetScreamer" The only mod I think Iíll have to deal with is the 3mm shaft; the current SFM motor is 2.3
Hi Anderson, don't try the 5100KV little screamer on the 66mmEDF SFM, the blade cannot take this high KV unless you use 2 cells Lipo.
On 3 cells Lipi you are looking at over 40,000 rpm, this little flimsy blade just won't stand up to the stress at max power.

Take care.

B5
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:27 AM   #12
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babylon5
My stock unbalanced flimsy GWS blades stand up to little screamer power
and on 4 cells

Dude! Foam isn't supposed to make that noise when it hits the ground!
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:28 AM   #13
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And the little screamer is ACTUALLY 4600 kv...not 5100 as advertised

Dude! Foam isn't supposed to make that noise when it hits the ground!
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:58 AM   #14
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I have a new shipment of these motors on the way, many people use them in the Executive Jet as it is the same EDF fan unit. My motor has the correct shaft so no additional adapter needed.

http://donsrc.com/cart/index.php?act...d&productId=62

The test data shown there was with 3 blades removed. With all 6 blades, the thrust stayed the same but amp draw went up about 3 amps. I think 3 blades is better.

Don

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Old 02-28-2008, 10:47 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by USMC_VTOL_Mech View Post
babylon5
My stock unbalanced flimsy GWS blades stand up to little screamer power
and on 4 cells
Hi Mech, are you referring the gws 55mm edf or 65mm EDF.
I know the 55mmEDF can take quite a high rpm but have doubts that the 65mm can survive high rpm with 4S lipo with the little screamer.

The blade from SFM are more flimsy
If the screamer is 4.6Kv, you can try but you still run the risk of departing blades on 3S ...hmm on 4s ....SFM ...I don't even want to try.

It also depends on how good the lipos are. Those 25C to 30C rated Lipos will make the EDF spin really fast at max power.
This setup also draws alot of current so may end up with the the risk of temperature problem.... a possible EDF meltdown.
Some of my buddy has tried the SFM with a 4.8KV mega motor 2 turns ...all resulted in departing blades.

If anyone wants to try with higher than 4kv motor on 3 cells on the SFM EDF blade just have to be very careful of potential departing flying blade .

Cheers and all the best
B5
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:51 PM   #16
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The SF blades are fine on higher KV, I run them in my Exec Jet on my 4800KV motor at 41k rpm and 380 watts. The Wicked 4000 on three blade is 37k rpm ..

Don

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Old 02-28-2008, 12:56 PM   #17
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The stock EDF is a 3-blade; HL already removed 3.

I'll be using a 3s 20C batt.

I have a 40A ESC on deck. Will wattmeter to confirm draw.

I don't think the plane can actually take WOT dives & loops - that's not my intent - I'm planning on the motor providing me enough power to get out of any difficult situations, and an occasional zippy fly-by.

Thanks all for the great info!
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Old 02-29-2008, 05:26 AM   #18
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Babylon5
I am using screamers on the 64 MM fan...not the 55
There is video of my 262 on with screamers and 4 cells here

DON!!
I forgot all about your motors

I do have to say i have had issues with these screamers...
Not communicating with castle esc's correctly...finicky on 4 cells..endbells kinda thin (which i heard they have fixed the endbell problem)
When i build my next 262 I plan on using don's motors and seeing the difference

Dude! Foam isn't supposed to make that noise when it hits the ground!
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Old 03-02-2008, 03:14 PM   #19
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Got the LJS motor yesterday from HL. Man this thing in tiny, and it is in fact 4500kv, as stated on the packaging. Pics to follow shortly.
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Old 03-02-2008, 04:26 PM   #20
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SoarJet JetScreamer Install - 03.02.08
  • Little Screamers 'Jet Screamer'
    • "4500kv; 38-1/2 grams (1-1/3 oz.) weight, 130-290 watts. Length of motor (face of mount to rear of motor shaft) is 31.5mm (1-1/4"), motor shaft is 3mm. High performance motor specially designed for use in small ducted fans"
  • the rest is stock SFM
I removed the following parts:



and used an existing prop adapter. Nice thing is that the existing SFM mount screws also work with the LSJS




Wattmeter Results using a 3S 20C 45A batt:
- burst WOT = 25A
- 275W
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Old 03-02-2008, 05:19 PM   #21
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AndersOn
Sounds like a winner man! Numbers look good and that thing should haul the mail now

<p>
Originally Posted by Anders0n View Post
<b><font face="Arial">SoarJet JetScreamer Install - 03.02.08</font></b></p><ul><li> <font face="Arial"><font size="2"> <a href="http://www.hobby-lobby.com/littlescreamers.htm" target="_blank">Little Screamers 'Jet Screamer</a><a href="http://www.hobby-lobby.com/littlescreamers.htm" target="_blank">'</a></font></font><ul><li> <font face="Arial"><font size="2"> "4500kv; 38-1/2 grams (1-1/3 oz.) weight, 130-290 watts. Length of motor (face of mount to rear of motor shaft) is 31.5mm (1-1/4"), motor shaft is 3mm. High performance motor specially designed for use in small ducted fans"</font></font></li></ul><p></li><li> <font face="Arial"><font size="2"> the rest is stock SFM</font></font></li></ul><font face="Arial"><font size="2">I removed the following parts:</font></font></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p> <a href="http://www.digitalsimple.com/airRC/03.02.08%20SoarJet/forwebIMG_0232.jpg" target="_blank"> <img src="http://www.digitalsimple.com/airRC/03.02.08%20SoarJet/forwebIMG_0232_small.jpg" border="0" alt="" /></a></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p> <font face="Arial"><font size="2">and used an existing prop adapter. Nice thing is that the existing SFM mount screws also work with the LSJS</font></font></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p> <a href="http://www.digitalsimple.com/airRC/03.02.08%20SoarJet/forwebIMG_0229.jpg" target="_blank"> <img src="http://www.digitalsimple.com/airRC/03.02.08%20SoarJet/forwebIMG_0229_small.jpg" border="0" alt="" /></a> <a href="http://www.digitalsimple.com/airRC/03.02.08%20SoarJet/forwebIMG_0228.jpg" target="_blank"> <img src="http://www.digitalsimple.com/airRC/03.02.08%20SoarJet/forwebIMG_0228_small.jpg" border="0" alt="" /></a> <a href="http://www.digitalsimple.com/airRC/03.02.08%20SoarJet/forwebIMG_0230.jpg" target="_blank"> <img src="http://www.digitalsimple.com/airRC/03.02.08%20SoarJet/forwebIMG_0230_small.jpg" border="0" alt="" /></a> <a href="http://www.digitalsimple.com/airRC/03.02.08%20SoarJet/forwebIMG_0231.jpg" target="_blank"> <img src="http://www.digitalsimple.com/airRC/03.02.08%20SoarJet/forwebIMG_0231_small.jpg" border="0" alt="" /></a></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p> <font face="Arial"><font size="2">Wattmeter Results using a 3S 20C 45A batt:</font></font></p>
<p> <font face="Arial"><font size="2">- burst WOT = 25A</font></font></p>
<p> <font face="Arial"><font size="2">- 275W</font></font>
</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:50 AM   #22
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Hi Anderson, very good setup. Maybe you can re-confirm your current drawn using a clamp on ammeter those that have this thongs or fork that uses measure the Dc/Ac by magnetic means. The meter can measure your true setup current as this meter do not introduce resistance into the electrical systems. If you don't have you can borrow from someone who has.

Moreover some of this clamp on meter can also measure the rpm of the EDF indirectly.

If the ammeter is equip to measure frequencies.
Just clamp or detect the magnetic field on any of the 3 phase wire.
The read out is in Hz(hertz or cycles per second.

The rpm formula = freqx60/ pole factor

pole factor= (number of pole/2)

Example mega motor are 6 pole .
Pole factor=6/2=3
If the frequencies read out is 2100Hz
The approx rpm=2100x60/3=42,000rpm
The rpm is quite accurate as I have check the figures against an optical techometer.

If you can measure the power or current and the rpm will yield a more complete picture of the setup.

Just some of my thoughts.
Cheers
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:02 AM   #23
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Hi!

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Old 03-13-2008, 02:14 PM   #24
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Default SFM more...please

Hi , has anyone tried the 3 blade SFM setup buried deep in the belly of the aircraft such as military jet like F16, F18, mirage ?

I have seen the 3 blade setup on on a number of jet with lttle or unobstructed intake /outlet like the electra jet , HL thunderbirds or modified Micro jet ,Me262 and executive jet.
The EDF are usually mounted on the top of the aircraft or on nacelles.

.....just curious.

Cheers
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