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Old 06-21-2008, 07:54 PM   #1
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Thumbs up GWS Tiger Moth maiden and review

Well, I finally was able to maiden my TM400 today. SWEET!

First, some minor build notes:

Got the slope model, then painted it with testors insignia yellow and an airbrush. Brown on the props and cockpit, and semi gloss black on the cowling. I enlarged the battery bay as large as it will go to ensure room for the larger lipo. Used sumo glue, 5 min epoxy, and foam safe CA for the build.

1. Don't use the measurements on the directions for the control rod guides, as they will be too short. Make sure they extend into the battery bay.

2. Stickers won't. Use some additional adhesive to ensure that they stick.

3. I think I found the three little plastic squares used to mount the cowling, after I had already made new ones. GWS should make them a little more apparent. I am not the only one that has had this issue.

4. It looks like the parts tree was for another model, as I had tons of extra parts that went nowhere.

5. Build itself was pretty easy and painless.

6. I had to shorten the stick for the stick mount by around 1/2" to make the motor fit into the cowling.

My mods:

1. Brushless motor - 2410-08Y 950KV stick mount outrunner (Headsup RC)
2. 1700 Mah 3S lipo
3. GWS 10x4.7 prop. (I have an APC 10x3.8 and 9x3.8 to test)
4. "Jack" 1/10 scale pilot from Hobby lobby
5. 3/4" and 2" light foam wheels from Hobby Lobby (Much more realistic yet light)
6. cockpit decal
7. small GWS spinner glued onto the prop. A little more realistic detail.

I still have to enhance the landing gear for more realism and durability.

The CG balanced perfectly without any additional weight. No, really, it did!

The maiden:

In the rush to put in the battery I snapped off Jack. Hopefully, not a bad omen, but I hoped I could maiden without a "pilot"

I puddled around the baseball diamond (AKA, my airfield) to check out the steerable tail wheel. VERY nice!.

ROG was in around 20' at 2.3 throttle. THe plane climbed very nicely and only needed a few clicks of down elevator and we were flying straight and level.

It flies faster than I thought it would, but will still slow down very well, at a little less than half throttle.

Loops are very easy, even at 2/3 throttle, but rolls are very slow. I will try and increase the throws of the ailerons if I am able. I am sure this is pretty much as the original plane flies, but be sure and give it some throttle and have some height.

After about 2 minutes of flight, the large numeric decal flew off the plane and was lost. **Note to myself, don't forget about the extra adhesive you were going to add to the decals.

About 5 kids showed up and were watching, so I did some more aerobatics; immelmans, loops, rolls, etc. After one roll, I saw something else fall off the plane. **Second note to self - remember to glue on the wheel keepers next time!

The kids found the wheel in the park's grass, while I continued to fly some more. I knew that landing was going to be an issue with only one wheel. I brought her in early on the grass, not the dirt of the infield. A low and slow landing, with a controlled stall just before touchdown. The only damage was the landing gear mount pulled out of the plane. I will reglue it and see about improvements for the future.

I am also going to try the APC 10x3.8 and 9x3.8 props to see how the flying characteristics are affected. The 9x3.8 would lengthen the flight times significantly, I believe.

All in all, this is a very smooth flying plane. It is very relaxing, and looks beautiful in the air. Would I consider it an aileron trainer? Probably not, and here is why: 1. Aileron rolls are very slow, and need some coordinated elevator input to keep her from dropping too low. 2. I don't think she is as sturdy as many other aileron trainers.

However, the Tiger Moth 400 is a beautiful and easy flying plane, suitable for the intermediate flyer in a smallish park.

Regards,

Gary


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Old 06-21-2008, 08:27 PM   #2
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Thumbs up

Good stuff and good lookin TM there Gary. Congrats on the maiden too!

I been thinking of picking this one up myself, I need something more "parkflyable" than my Christen Eagle. Yeah the Eagle is probably flyable in parks but not most of them in my area, and I like to make long shallow approches with it.

Yes, I think this GWS one is the ticket. It looks to be nearly as slow a flyer as my e-flight Jenny, which dont get me wrong I love the jenny but I want something with full house controls and airfoiled wings.
Thanks for the report.

"Better to be looking up in the air wishing you were flying, than looking down at the ground wishing you weren't."
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Old 06-21-2008, 08:38 PM   #3
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Thanks! I have read that, among the foam historic bipes like the jenny and pt17, the Tiger Moth is the best and easiest flyer.

BTW, the brushless motor I am using is pretty quiet at normal speeds, with a pleasant whir, not a high pitched whine. I like the motor a lot. I want to give the slightly lower pitched props a shot to see how the speed and thrust at slower speeds is affected.

If you want a really slow flyer, and don't mind not having ailerons, the pico TM is probably one of the best out there.

Regards,

Gary
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Old 06-21-2008, 08:50 PM   #4
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Smile

Yeah thats just it I do want ailerons, actually going back and forth between the Jenny and my other planes is kinda tricky in a way.
I've caught myself trying to steer her on the ground with my left thumb, and then trying to steer a 4 channel plane with the right after flying the Jenny for several flights.
But one other bad thing of flying the Jenny too much is getting into the habit of performing spins using the right thumb, and then having that muscle memory kick in when doing the same spin with the Christen eagle. Wooops!

"Better to be looking up in the air wishing you were flying, than looking down at the ground wishing you weren't."
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:14 AM   #5
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Default More Tigermoth's self build

I Couldn't resist to show u the following threads where we building Tigermoth's. There are also plenty of example video's and drawings (pdf) to build your own moth!

There is an enormous thread about building a moth from Depron. The nice this is, there is shown moth who's actually take off from water and landing! Examples to build ailerons on all 4 of te wings and so on.

The nice part is, it's easy to build and nice to fly.
Take a look:

The (hughe) thread about builing the moth:
http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/...n-filmpje.html

Another threadabout a nice model of the moth:
www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/bouwverslagen-vliegen/65687-tigermoth-rwd-8-uit-3mm-depron.html

Example to build a nice light aileron:

www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/bouwverslagen-vliegen/72138-bouwverslag-robs-3mm-depron-tiger-moth.html#post1071378


I hope u enjoy it.

edit: added the links.
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Old 02-10-2009, 01:37 PM   #6
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Great to hear you are enjoying your TM400.

I have about 200 flights on mine and it is one of my favorite planes. One additional mod you might want to do is to add some carbon fiber rods to the upper wing. I added 2 rods about 10" long each. I had to notch the upper cabane struts to allow the rods to pass though. Just cut a small trench and glue them into the wing.

Is it worth the effort? Well, I do inside and OUTSIDE loops with no wing flex that I can see.

The TM400 is a great flier. Have fun!
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Old 02-11-2009, 01:22 AM   #7
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Wing wire thead on mine stiff'ined the wing Great!! she's a great flyer,100's of flight's on her, She'll never get"old" bub, steve


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Old 06-24-2009, 08:04 PM   #8
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Hi Teamgs,

I am also building a TM400 at the moment and its looking prety nice. I would like to ask a question if you dont mind?

The instruction manual is less than accurate and writen in Chinglish!

My question is:
Are the the large pair of wing struts that go from the fuselage to the upper wing are supposed to be epoxyed in place where they go into the upper wing?
It suggests in the manual that these are just located in the two receses in the upper wing with no glue/epoxy. logic would suggest that they need securing, otherwise the upper wing is only held in place by the four smaller struts.

I would appriciate knowing how you secured yours.

Thanks in advance

Chris

EEP Hacker Piper Cub, EPP BF109, EPP Mustang P51D, Hyperion Piper Cub,
GWS Tiger Moth 400, MiniMag
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:40 PM   #9
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lovely plane, I love the tiger moth.but I think the GWS model is not good quality, what do you think about?
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:17 PM   #10
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Depends, what do you mean by "quality"? Fit? Finish? Durability? Flying ability?

Mine has well over 200 flights doing just about every manuver you can think of. It went together well, flies great, and looks pretty nice for the price. Yep, I made 2 mods. I added a carbon fiber rod to the upper wing and I added nicer looking wheels.

Quality means many things to many people. It fit my needs for a nice looking, great flying park flier.....so I guess I say that in my opinion, it is pretty good quality.
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Old 06-25-2009, 04:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Tyrant Blaze View Post
Hi Teamgs,

My question is:
Are the the large pair of wing struts that go from the fuselage to the upper wing are supposed to be epoxyed in place where they go into the upper wing?
It suggests in the manual that these are just located in the two receses in the upper wing with no glue/epoxy. logic would suggest that they need securing, otherwise the upper wing is only held in place by the four smaller struts.

I would appriciate knowing how you secured yours.

Thanks in advance

Chris
Hi Chris,
You are correct. (At least that's how I did it! ) I secured the upper portion of the struts with glue, and the lower portion with the two (each) supplied screws.

BTW, have you seen the big TM400 thread at the other forum?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298384

Tons of great info.

Gary
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:34 PM   #12
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Thanks for the info Garry, I am nearly ready to maiden her, probably sometime beginnining of next week.

and thanks for the link to the thread, lots of info

Regards

Chris

EEP Hacker Piper Cub, EPP BF109, EPP Mustang P51D, Hyperion Piper Cub,
GWS Tiger Moth 400, MiniMag
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Old 07-03-2009, 04:34 PM   #13
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Default Maiden Flight....not

Very nice write up on your TM build, and glad to hear your maiden flight went off well. This plane has a very large following if the amount of post are any indication. This was a factor in picking up and building the TigerMoth as my first alieron plane. I spent lots of time going over the reviews and build hints. The assembly went off with out a hitch and being part of the over 55 yr.old club, I figured I had it in the bag.

Wrong, the alierons were reversed. Below is the end result of my maiden flight. But all is not lost as the plane is repairable with epoxy and the radio gear is fine.
I hope to try again the weekend if the weather will give me a break.

Funny thing, everyone at the field at one time or another pulled the same stunt, so I got the berries and had to listen to all the war stories. It's part of the entertainment factor with this hobby, I guess....

Have a safe Holiday weekend.... Capt.RJM

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Old 02-11-2010, 02:41 AM   #14
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Had the maiden of my TM400 on Sunday.

I'm using an Ecoflight C2830B brushess motor which delivers 800 g thrust on a GWS EP 9x 5 prop. 3S 1500 mAH LiPos supply the electrons, regulated by Castle Thunderbird 18A ESC. Previous posts on this thread helped me along the way. My mods so far: had to use a trick motor mount to get the thrustline to where it should be using the supplied motor stick (designed for EPS power which has geared output shaft above the motor). But in the end, threw away the cowl - flimsy plastic rubbish - as I needed to get the LiPo as far forward as i could to balance, right under the motor. Pack is secured with a rubber band over two bamboo toothpick pegs.

Initial flight report: goes well. No shortage of power! Ailerons sluggish, maybe due to slop in those long wire torque rods. Needs more downthrust, tends to climb srongly under power.

first landing was fine. on my second I stalled it a bit (windy day, lack of recent flying) and tore the gear out of the foam as I knew I would (yes it does need beefing up as others advise).

Have bent up new gear which bolts to ply plates glued to bottom of fuz. just a bit forward of original position. Have upped throws on ailerons, added downthrust - now keen to have another flight.

I think GWS are to be commended for their foamies, basically good designs - although I'd like to see some notes on mods recommended for LiPo/brushless power (e.g. as per above posts, before gluing fuse halves, make more room for battery) . They might spend more time on important details like a sturdy landing gear, and, yes - stickers that stick! - but I'm pleased to be able to fly a 'classic' biplane without investing lots of time or $.
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:51 AM   #15
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Way to go!! Love more and more TM's up there! At least there are many tweeks out there to make them fly the way you want. I slide my Lipo under the bottom wing (rubberbands). Might try one of those 400's one day! Throw some pics on!!


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Old 02-11-2010, 03:01 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by flyingkiwi View Post
Had the maiden of my TM400 on Sunday.

I'm using an Ecoflight C2830B brushess motor which delivers 800 g thrust on a GWS EP 9x 5 prop. 3S 1500 mAH LiPos supply the electrons, regulated by Castle Thunderbird 18A ESC. Previous posts on this thread helped me along the way. My mods so far: had to use a trick motor mount to get the thrustline to where it should be using the supplied motor stick (designed for EPS power which has geared output shaft above the motor). But in the end, threw away the cowl - flimsy plastic rubbish - as I needed to get the LiPo as far fowrad as i could to balance, right under the motor. Pack is secured with a rubber band over two bamboo toothpick pegs.

Initial flight report: goes well. No shortage of power! Ailerons sluggish, maybe due to slop in those long wire torque rods. Needs more downthrust, tends to climb srongly under power.

first landing was fine. on my second I stalled it a bit (windy day, lack of recent flying) and tore the gear out of the foam as I knew I would (yes it does need beefing up as others advise).

Have bent up new gear which bolts to bly plates glued to bottom of fuz. just a bit forward of original position. Have upped throws on ailerons, added downthrust 7 keen to have another go.

I think GWS are to be commended for their foamies, basically good designs - although surely some need to have some tips on mods needed for LiPo/brushless power (e.g. before gluing fuse halves, make more room for battery) . They might spend more time on important details like a sturdy landing gear, and, yes - stickers that stick! - but I'm pleased to be able to fly a 'classic' biplane without investing lots of time or $.
Wellcome to watttflyer!! GWS TM's are great, glad you like yours, sound's like a good flight pack for as well!
I never had any prob's with my cowl but I did get a Fommossa II that had a flimizy cowl that I Ask um about and sure enough it was a mis-made one and they mailed me one to replace it, it's on it now and is holding up well, bubsteve


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Old 02-12-2010, 07:25 AM   #17
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Thanks for replies, Steve and TM4197.

She looks a bit ugly without the cowl, but as you'll see from the pics it's much easier loading the flight pack for me this way (I slide it in thru the front cockpit).

A 1mm ply 'tongue' with alloy right-angle at the end stops the pack from ending up in the prop!

I used some yellow acrylic artists paint thinned with water & brushed on to touch up where I sanded the foam.

Anyone else have trouble with those tiny screws that hold the struts to the wings?


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Old 02-12-2010, 07:10 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by flyingkiwi View Post
Thanks for replies, Steve and TM4197.

She looks a bit ugly without the cowl, but as you'll see from the pics it's much easier loading the flight pack for me this way (I slide it in thru the front cockpit).

A 1mm ply 'tongue' with alloy right-angle at the end stops the pack from ending up in the prop!

I used some yellow acrylic artists paint thinned with water & brushed on to touch up where I sanded the foam.

Anyone else have trouble with those tiny screws that hold the struts to the wings?
Nice mod there, the lipo can be hard to put in & out,, I put tape tabs on mine to help,
They do need a butt-load of poundage up front!!bubsteve


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Old 09-26-2010, 11:42 AM   #19
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Hi, guys. I've never even considered this plane before but I suddenly have a hankering for it.

I was *almost* gonna get a Night Vapor, but now I find myself drawn to this cool bipe.

I'm looking for a park flier that'll go nice and slow but can handle a bit of wind (I'm in Kansas).

This would be my first aileron plane. Any advice? Should I go for it? Try something else? If I go for it, I'll probably run whatever Heads-up RC recommends for motor/ESC/etc.

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Old 09-26-2010, 11:48 PM   #20
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Hi,
Yes I'd recommend this plane, with a few minor reservations. I live in a windy place as well, and the TM-400 copes with it OK.

I would recommend brushless power; earlier posts on this thread will give you some tips. The plane may need weight in the nose anyway so don't choose too small a battery.

Before joining the fuselage halves test-fit your chosen battery; I had to enlarge the slot so my LiPo pack would fit.

I had to make some small cuts with a sharp knife to get the adhesive RAF roundals to sit flat on the upper wings. Water-based decals would have been a better choice.

Have fun, let us know how you get on if you build one.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:00 AM   #21
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Thanks. Jeff @ Headsuprc recommends:
* 840KV, 400 class direct drive outrunner brushless motor
* 20A EZ Flite ESC
* GWS 1047 Prop
* 11.1v 1300 20C Power Up lipo battery

If I build it, I'll probably follow those recommendations. I'm thinking a Spektrum AR500 Rx. I'm intrigued by the $15 'compatible' receivers from HobbyKing - that $50 Rx is a big money hit. Not sure I want to wait that long, tho.

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Old 09-27-2010, 08:30 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
Thanks. Jeff @ Headsuprc recommends:
* 840KV, 400 class direct drive outrunner brushless motor
* 20A EZ Flite ESC
* GWS 1047 Prop
* 11.1v 1300 20C Power Up lipo battery

If I build it, I'll probably follow those recommendations. I'm thinking a Spektrum AR500 Rx. I'm intrigued by the $15 'compatible' receivers from HobbyKing - that $50 Rx is a big money hit. Not sure I want to wait that long, tho.
Jeff, those power recommendations sound good.

$50 for a Spektrum rx may not be cheap to you but it would be hard to get over here for less than $NZ 100! I've used an AR500 in another model (GWS A4 Skyhawk) and it went just fine.

Stuart
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:04 AM   #23
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$100? Ouch!

I just meant, though, that the Rx costs as much as the motor, ESC, battery, prop (and possibly servos) combined ... 1/3 of the total price of the bird.

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Old 09-28-2010, 11:07 AM   #24
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I've been studying this tutorial carefully:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nZoS...layer_embedded

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Old 09-30-2010, 05:31 AM   #25
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Ordered from HeadsupRC.

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