How do I know if I'm ready for ailerons?

[Jeremy Z]

Originally Posted by Doppelganger

The spectrum doesn't support expo for the rudder and elevator

I'm pretty sure it does have expo for the elevator. It's just the rudder that has to go without.

Domino, It is great that you are not discouraged after having crashed your Wright Flyer. That is probably the best trait you can have, coming into this hobby.

I wouldn't fly the P47 yet. I would also probably go brushless from the getgo, so that you have the oomph to pull out of some troubles if you need to. Underpowered warbirds can be a nasty thing.

Ed's advice to go with the Magpie sounds great to me. I would just add that you should make sure you tape it up. It is made of regular (albeit thick) styrofoam, and doesn't really become durable until it's taped.

Check out Patrick Plawner's starter plane article. The Magpie is in there. It doesn't come out tops, but you're not exactly a beginner any more.

Here's the article: http://plawner.net/3/1st_plane/1st_plane.html

Here's the specifics on the Magpie: http://plawner.net/4/magpie/magpie.html

It also doesn't hurt that Patrick's wife is....

err... ummm....

easy on the eyes ---> http://plawner.net/3/1st_plane/winne...res/index.html

[watt_the?!]

ive never seen those patrick pages....is this the same guy...oldpilot? if it is, those pics are of his daughters i think...

what an excellent site regardless of who the guy actually is....that stuff is golden for newbies!

Tim

[watt_the?!]

oh i see..patrick mcgrath is the guy!!...those are his genes in the pics!

i think that this may be the single best site ive ever seen for beginning e planes.

[Jeremy Z]

Tim, what the heck are you talking about? It is Patrick Plawner's website I'm talking about. The attractive lady is his wife.

Is it another post you're referring to?

[WAK]

I'm sorry guy's, I looked at Patrick Plawner's website pics, and swear I did not see any planes... Jeez, I thought this site was about flying!

[watt_the?!]

[quote=Jeremy Z;48011]Tim, what the heck are you talking about? It is Patrick Plawner's website I'm talking about. The attactive lady is his wife.
[quote]

is it?...oh my mistake then.

i see he has noted Patrick McGrath as a contributor to his site and kow very well about Patrick's (McGrath) pics and models (the female kind). It just really looks like them.

other than that i cant see how PMc wouldve contributed.

apologies if i got this wrong...

Tim

[crxmanpat]

Originally Posted by watt_the?!

is it?...oh my mistake then.

i see he has noted Patrick McGrath as a contributor to his site and kow very well about Patrick's (McGrath) pics and models (the female kind). It just really looks like them.

other than that i cant see how PMc wouldve contributed.

apologies if i got this wrong...

Tim

Tim,

You are thinking of some of the guys on RCGroups in the "Model your model" thread. Patrick Plawner (forget his handle) lives in the middle east, and uses his wife to model planes for him. Patrick McGrath (OldPilot) lives in Australia, and his daughter Jerusha is a fashion designer. OldPilot likes to convince the models that come by to pose with one of his planes.

Yes, the pictures are quite extraordinary! Both McGrath's and Plawner's.

Pat

[Bill G]

How do I know if I'm ready for ailerons?

I not sure if the transition can ever be all that smooth. I juct enjoyed the experience the same way one does, when pushing a car out of a busy 5 way intersection at rush hour. Just don't try it the first time on a GWS P51! Don't ask me how I know this.

[LannyG]

Originally Posted by Domino

I bought a Firebird Commander with the hopes of teaching myself to fly... with the eventual goal of getting to an EDF like the Alpha Model MIG-15. I also have and fly a Blade CP electric helicopter that I'm learning on (can hover tail in and side in, and am starting on forward flight excersizes).

Ok, so I'm about a week into flying this Commander. Have been flying it almost daily on my lunch breaks at work. Seems to me I've kind of outgrown it already? I've disabled the beginner mode on the transmitter and can pretty much fly and land it without incident.

How do I know if I'm ready for ailerons? Should I be able to hop right into the MIG-15 or should I look for another trainer type airplane with ailerons? I'm just afraid that if I go that route I'll outgrow it too quickly like the Commander and be sorry I didn't just get the MIG.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Just depends on how much of a gambler you are. On the one hand you could just get the Mig and possibly save the intermediate step. But...you could get the Mig and destroy it in 4 seconds. Then you'd still have to buy the easier aileron plane and buy ANOTHER MIG too. If you bought the aileron intermediate plane you could probably fly it and get good enough to then get the Mig and fly it successfully too. No planes destroyed. You would probably enjoy flying and owning both planes. Odds are that skipping the intermediate step is false economy. But who knows, you may get lucky. And YOU get to make the decision which way to go.
LannyG

[socal swimmer]

ok right now i have a slow stick, stock motor, and nimh batt. it is fun, but i would like to move up to a plane with ailerons pretty soon. not this second, but soon. what package would you recommend? i looked at that one post (great post btw) and which radio would be best? they all looked basically equal, cept the DX6 had 4 servos compared to the 3 and 2 of the others. which plane is best? i saw magpie and switchback.... but also i would probably go into the hobby shop closest to me and ask them, and get a plane they had. something about ordering a plane online seems a little ... not right to me.

[Turbojoe]

I hate to sound like a broken record but if you're willing to build you just can't go wrong with the Mountain Models Dandy Sport or SwitchBack Sport. It's such an awesome plane that I chose it for a scaled down scratch build project. I'm in the finishing stages of a scratch built 75% SwitchBack. I've made both the Sport and GT wings for it. The GT wing spans 23 1/2 inches and the Sport is 28 inches. I'll post pics of it when I have finished and test flown it. I expect it to fly just like its full size brother. In a word...awesome!

As far as being cautious with online purchases I can understand your reluctance. However......Mountain Models is probably one of the most stand up, customer oriented kitters on the web. Even since Brian bought Doug out he has maintained the same customer relations that brought Doug to God like status among R/C parkflyer kitters. You can buy from them with complete confidence.

Although you'll need little assistance with the build you can count on Mountain Models as well as tons of proud kit owners to help you out if you need it. I'm just a P.M. away and eager to help you succeed with a Dandy/SwitchBack build.



Joe

[Grasshopper]

Mountain Models has GREAT customer service, fast shipping, good quality and great support after the sale.

[AEAJR]

Originally Posted by Turbojoe

I hate to sound like a broken record but if you're willing to build you just can't go wrong with the Mountain Models Dandy Sport or SwitchBack Sport. It's such an awesome plane that I chose it for a scaled down scratch build project.

..............................

Although you'll need little assistance with the build you can count on Mountain Models as well as tons of proud kit owners to help you out if you need it. I'm just a P.M. away and eager to help you succeed with a Dandy/SwitchBack build.
Joe

OK, here is another vote for Mountain Models.

I have their Boomer, side arm launched glider ( 2 of them ) and am buidling the SmoothE right now.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/produc...roducts_id=224

The foam wing is easy to build and you cover it with tape. Very very easy.

They have two wing options for it that I purchased. A slow fly wing, with ailerons and a sport wing with ailerons. An excellent package for an aileron trainer.

The build is very very easy. The parts are all keys so they interlock and you just drop a little CA to glue it.

Essentially this is similar to the Magpie, but with a balsa fuse instead of foam.

Magpie is great too and also available with two wings. The slow fly wing on the magpie does not have ailerons, but the sport wing does.

Either of these would be good aileron trainers for you.


And yes, if you are solidly into parkflyers ( not glow planes, not sailplanes ) then the DX6 is probably your best choice.

[Turbojoe]

So there ya go. It's unanimous. Everyone LOVES Mountain Models!

Seriously though, you'll be very happy dealing with them no matter the model you decide on. I personally don't fly foam but the SmoothE (balsa-foam hybrid) and the Magpie (all foam) are very nice planes as well.

As far as the DX-6 goes I think it's a winner. You can't beat the deal for this system at 200 bucks. You shouldn't need to upgrade for a LONG time. That in itself saves you a ton of money.
As soon as they come out with a module to plug into my Futaba 9C TX I'll be first on the list to buy it!

Joe

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by Turbojoe

So there ya go. It's unanimous. Everyone LOVES Mountain Models!

Seriously though, you'll be very happy dealing with them no matter the model you decide on. I personally don't fly foam but the SmoothE (balsa-foam hybrid) and the Magpie (all foam) are very nice planes as well.

As far as the DX-6 goes I think it's a winner. You can't beat the deal for this system at 200 bucks. You shouldn't need to upgrade for a LONG time. That in itself saves you a ton of money.
As soon as they come out with a module to plug into my Futaba 9C TX I'll be first on the list to buy it!

Joe

Yep, I have the Magpie AP with a DX6 on it. I love it!

[socal swimmer]

ok your help has been awesome. i think ill go with the switchback sport (so that i can upgrade to 3-D later) and the DX6 transmitter. but one thing. do the servos that come with the DX6 work on the switchback? the servos are S75s and the plane recommends HS-55s, GWS Picos, or similar. do S 75s count as similar?

how much do speed controllers cost?

[Turbojoe]

Originally Posted by socal swimmer

ok your help has been awesome. i think ill go with the switchback sport (so that i can upgrade to 3-D later) and the DX6 transmitter. but one thing. do the servos that come with the DX6 work on the switchback? the servos are S75s and the plane recommends HS-55s, GWS Picos, or similar. do S 75s count as similar?

how much do speed controllers cost?

There ya go. You won't be unhappy with the SwitchBack!

While I prefer the HS-55's to the S-75's they'll be more than adequate for you. And yes, they'll fit the SwitchBack just fine.
I'm a big fan of brushless motors with Castle Creations speed controllers. I love the Phoenix 10's and 25's. I understand the lower priced Thunderbird line from Castle Creations is an excellent choice as well. If you are going with a brushed motor I'm sure someone else can chime in here. I haven't flown with anything but brushless for a couple of years.


Joe

[Turbojoe]

If you can handle the extra $20.00 go ahead and get the GT wing at the same time. It'll save a bit in shipping. You'll be ready for it in no time anyway. The SB will get you comfortable with ailerons in no time. Just remember, it'll turn just fine on rudder only if you need it to!


Joe

[socal swimmer]

im definetely going to go brushless/lipo. and ill get the better wing too. is it a common enough plane that the hobby store near me would have it, or at least be able to help me with it?

ill probably get the plane as a christmas present, as i cant really pay for it myself. so ill be waiting a little while... but i got my best flight out of my slow stick today, and that seems like a fun little plane now that i can actually fly it well. :-D

[AEAJR]

I am 99% sure Mountain Models is only available via internet and phone.

Great people! Wonderful customer service.

I just finished the Smooth E Fuselage. about 2 hours. The whole thing is keyed together and you drop a little CA. Amazing piece of work!

[socal swimmer]

the 10 amp is 50 $ ... i think i would be better off with teh 25 or 30 $ one. should i get the 9 amp or 18 amp? how many would be used by that plane?

[AEAJR]

The motor I am going to put in mine draws 9 amps on a 11.1V 3 cell lithium pack. That is about 100 watts.

For my Smooth E, at 16 ounces that will give me 100 watts per pound which should give me plenty of power for fun aerobatics on the sport wing and lots of good climb for soaring on the slow fly wing.

The slow fly wing is larger and has more dihedral. That means I can fly the plane slower and that it will be more self correcting which is what you want as a trainer. I will use it for thermaling and for teaching others how to fly the plane.

the sport wing is shorter and flatter. I will have to fly the plane faster but it will be more aerobatic. Not good as a flight trianer but good as an aerobatic trainer/sport plane.

[socal swimmer]

one last question (i think)- on the specs it says that the plane weighs 9 oz without the battery. does this include motor, servos, receiver, and esc?

it recommends 3S 800 mah+ lipo. how much would this weigh, and about how much would it cost? i saw 4 oz for a 1200mah one that was a 2s. is it important that it is 3 s? all of the 3s one that i saw were 20 amp continuous or higher....

would a 75 watt motor get me sustained vertical climbinb, or 3-D hovering? if the plane is 13 oz (9oz for plane + 4 for battery) then i would have 92 watts/pound on a brushless setup. would this be enough to go vertical?

[Turbojoe]

Vertical climb and hover is the last thing you should be concerned with right now. The SB will hover but it is a chore to make it do it. It's not a 3D plane. Vertical climb is easy to achieve with the right motor/prop/battery. I fly my "Ole Betsy" 4 year old SB with an AXI 2212/34 and a Thunder Power 3S 730mah pack. She weighs 13.0 ounces ready to fly. This same plane has been flown with many different power packages. The heaviest was the Hacker B20-15L and 10 1100mah KAN Nimh cells! It must have weighed close to 20 ounces! Still flew awesome.
Get a 100 watt motor, a 15-20 amp ESC (the Thunderbird 18 will be fine) and a 3S Li-Po pack. You'll be in heaven.


Joe

[stevecooper]

S Swim :: Put some alerons on a slow stick, The fun just keeps on com'in, About 30$ Y-harness, two 12' ex's, two mirco servos, and about an hour to install, Maybe a E-Starter-EASY-FUN!!!your bub, steve