How do I know if I'm ready for ailerons?

[stevecooper]

sorry our sites not let'in me post pixs!! ARRRGGH!!!your bub, steve OOPS!!! ALL FIXED NOW,

[tgifia]

-

[n001pa]

I had great luck with Areobirds years ago but I think only the Swift has ailerons. You might also be interested in something like a GWS E-Starter.

As far as rudder, elevator planes go you can't go wrong with a Slow-Stick. You can have alot of fun with it stock and then upgrade it about as far as your imagination can take you.

Good Luck,
Carl

[AEAJR]

I don't know the Walkera 60, so I can't judge what that is or how it relates to your planes.

If you have never flown and RC airplane and plan to learn on your own, I suggest a 3 channel plane. You listed all RTF planes so I will keep my suggestions to RTFs.


HobbyZone Super Cub - $159
This is the only semi-scale plane on my list. I have not flown this
one but the flood of excellent reports leads me to recommend
it to new flyers. If you REALLY need a plane that looks like
something people would be in, this is the one I will recommend.
It takes the same Xport accesories as other HobbyZone and ParkZone
planes so you can drop bombs, parachutes and attach other accesories
to extend your fun. There has a steerable tail wheel so
you can effectively taxi the plane. Great for ROG launches.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=HBZ7100
Photos and Videos
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/ProductGallery.aspx?ProdID=HBZ7100
Other Excellent Video - Hi res for high speed connect users
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567625#post6040744
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt.php?attachmentid=1051938
manual
http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo/Files/HBZSuperCubManualCropped.pdf
Discussions on the Forums
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12218
http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/showthread.php?p=2130521#post2130521
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=593044#post6385310
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=550899

Easy Star - RTF - $180
I have flown the Easy Star - Great plane for new flyers!
Super tough foam. Good parkflyer and a good glider
In the US the RTF package comes with a 72 MHz radio
system that can be used to fly other planes
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240025.asp
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFXV0&P=ML
Easy Star - ARF - Add you own radio gear
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240009.asp
Build Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350408
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=459096
Videos
http://plawner.org/video/easygo.wmv
http://plawner.org/video/easystar.wmv
Mods, upgrades and more
http://www.mpx-easystar.de/
Add Ailerons - Start at post 195
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350408&page=13&pp=15
Travel Box
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468625&goto=newpost

Aerobird Challenger - RTF Electric - $110 -
I started on an Aerobird RTF. I have over 600 flights on my Aerobirds. I
also thermal and slope soar this plane. Flies well and stands up to hard
landings. Their add on fun accessories for night flying, air to air combat
and drop module add to the fun! The combat module makes a great lost
plane locator, even if you don't plan to fly combat. Great keep in the car
plane - take off the wing and it goes back in the box fully assembled.
Most can't do that!
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_planes_hobbyzone_aerobird_challenger.htm
Review
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Discover/Articles.aspx?ArticleID=1289#Page01
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147621
Video
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/aerobird_video.html
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_videos/aerobird_challenger_loops.wmv

This plane has ailerons but may be suitable for you.

Multiplex Space Scooter - RTF
A more up to date version of the Sky Scooter Pro above
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZV5&P=7
ARF
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZV4&P=7
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=548
Video
http://www.bungymania.com/videos/films/spacescooter/spacescooter_sun_stunt.wmv
http://67.18.81.100/rcuvideos/magazine/reviews/548/SpaceScooter.wmv
Brushless - 2 cell Lipo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MnPuV8Zlhc

If you will have coaching or will be working on a buddy box, then I suggest 4 channel aileron plane. I don't see one on the list.

Wing Dragon 4 Aileron Trainer - $140 RTF
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/wingdragon4.htm
Video
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/media/AT3302-WingDragon4.wmv

BeginAir - RTF or Receiver ready
RTF - $180 Receiver Ready - $110
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/begin-air.html
RTF includes a 4 hour house charger. Plan to spend an added $20-$50 for a
peak charger for use at the field.
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=443
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=583645
video
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/beg3vid.html
http://67.18.81.100/rcuvideos/magazine/reviews/443/BeginAir.wmv
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445663

Cesna 182 - 4 Channel RTF - $180
http://www.ewebcart.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?merchant=3210&add=1&item_id=144
Includes 72 MHz radio and wall charger.
Sku# 4303 $179.99 4 Channel with 72 MHz Radio
(Intermediate Level Recommended)
Video
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/cessna_long_movie.html

[tgifia]

-

[AEAJR]

If you have help, get the 4 channel planes.

A better choice would be to get an ARF and set it up with a good radio and use a buddy box to fly it.

[tgifia]

-

[n001pa]

Will you have an instructor? The reason I ask is because I have found that for the most part the bigger the plane the easier it is to fly. Of course this isn't true for all planes but if you plan on getting a high wing trainer nitro plane and have an instructor then you might want to learn on it.

[tgifia]

-

[Airhead]

Hey Guys,

A lot of good information here for myself too, down the road a little maybe.
Thanks,

[it26b]

Domino, haven't seen you on here lately so don't know what your status is relative to the the Wright Flyer. I have had one for several years and can offer some advise if interested. I cannpt help you with the P40. The Great Planes (Electrifly) Wright Flyer is a gem of a plane although not a very good beginners plane, but it must be set up properly. First,due to the canard configuation the balance must be dead on with very little margin. That distance is 1.125" from leading edge of bottom wing, no more than .09" off in either direction. Check this carefully and do not assume that if you put everything in the places the manual says it will be balanced. Secondly, make sure both motors are slanted UP in the FRONT at least 3/4 of the adjustment range from horizontal. Any angle of the PROPS greater than vertical in the direction I stated will improve lift-off. Your plane should have lifted off with just a gentle toss, even in still air,if not check balance and prop angle. I assume you have dihedral as opposed to anihedral. There was some problem with the string lengths and instructions that caused this problem. Anihedral was what the Wright Bros built into the real WF, but it is hairy to fly with in the model. Also, many complained that the elevator halves would not stay aligned. If the cross bar is placed in the second hole from the end on the horns, they will, any other hole and they won't. Again instructions misleading. Check and correct any problems as descibed here and you will have a great flying plane although very unscalelike in flight speed. Landing requires some power on so landings are relatively fast as well. Although you cannot stall a canard by excessive angle of attack, if you attempt to roll too hard and pull up elevator it will develope a nasty TIP stall and roll in fast.....it's not a stunt plane. The 300 mAh supplied battery will only give you 3-4 mins of safe flight. Hope this helps and Good luck with the Flyer and the P40. I have over 70 flights on my Flyer and nothing has ever broken.


Jim

[kolarshooter]

Originally Posted by Doppelganger

Is there anyone that can help you with the maiden. I understand that you've mastered the Firebird, but the P-47 flies light years differently. I'm thinking your Commander has given you a false sense of security. Not saying that you "can't" fly it. Just saying there WILL be a learning curve. Keep the control rates low, and learn about expo. The spectrum doesn't support expo for the rudder and elevator, but it does for the ailerons. Go with at least -70. Thats negative 70.

Remember that when you bank left or right, the aircraft will not right itself. It will go where it's pointed. This may all be moot, as you may just be a natural. I'm wishing you the best of luck.

Steve

I know this posting is old, but since it's a sticky I thought it best to chime in...

Doppelganger; Good intentions but completely wrong!

Your advice will make the plane almost uncontrollable.

JR/Spectrum radios require POSITIVE expo to soften the sticks. Futaba (and others) require NEGATIVE expo to soften the center. So, a person will need + expo...

For control throws, follow the manufacturer's instructions, not the settings in someone else's radio. For example, if someone says "my low rate is 40% with +35 expo" this means nothing. Your two planes are set-up differently, and ATV's will likely be different...what you want to do is compare control surface deflection (throw) on high rates, low rates, etc. Expo pretty much translates directly...just remember that a Futaba guy's negative expo values need to be entered as POSITIVE values in the Spektrum and JR radios.

I fly with the DX-7 (and JR 9303) so I don't know first-hand, but I have to think that the DX-6 would support Ail & Ele DR and EXPO.

Best of luck!

[raptor-9]

I think it's all about time and money-if you have time,download a free plan-not a compicated one at first-you can build great models with foam,they are easy ,quick & cheap to build-balsa ones, need more work- If you have the money-just go for it!-don't think too much just go flying!-I've seen novice flying (with some moitoring)all sort of type of models-- I think it all depends on you,your will and your guts!!

[Balil]

one plane, 1 buy, trainer with alerions is the firebird swift. pusher plane like you're used to, with ailerons. check into it...

[Balil]

tfifia, tell ya something from experience, i learned to fly on a .46 p-51 mustang. it was an extremely fast model and WAY beyond what i needed to start on, but i wanted to fly, after spending MONTHS on a sim i finally got up the nerve to go to the field and gas er up, guess what, SHE FLEW! a few clicks of alerion trim and this thing was flying as straight as an arrow and fairly fast 45-50 mph, ended up having to land dead stick because i was having so much fun flying this thing that i wasnt paying attention to my stop watch, which is a good idea to have when flying nitro, landed the bird, recharged the flight pack, gased her back up and i was in the air, at the field by myself, flying a real model for the first time, looking back on what i did, i do not recommend it but sometimes things of the sort just happen... if you REALLY wanna learn to fly, you'll fly...

[FORDEVR]

If you have flown once or never you are ready for ailerons. Just forget you have a rudder and throw it instead of trying to take off. Rudder to control on ground and Ailerons to control in the air.

[Stan-the-Man]

...That's easy! When you are tired of flying with the tail you have!

I was going to add, "...and you can afford more repairs and planes."

OK, I know when to leave... :o

[ganst949]

Nevermind, I bought one.

[helo-watt]

WOW !! Thanks so much for all the advice and concern !! I have been overseas for almost two years, and it was such a great welcome to see that the forums were still going, and YOU, THE COMMUNITY was still answering. Hands down, no argument, THIS is the single best model A/C community in the world. YOU GUYS ROCK. Now, down to business, time to go re-learn how to fly !!!

[Lancifer]

Interested in hearing how Dominos flight went with his p40....anyways lets hear itDomino!!!

[CygnusX1]

I've never flown a plane without ailerons. From day one, I wanted them. I had no trouble with them at all. Of course, all of my planes have been gliders of one form or another with realatively low roll rates.

[AEAJR]

The answer to the question of when you are ready for ailerons varies from person to person.

If you have an instructor or a coach, follow their advice. They may prefer you to start on an aileron plane.

For self trainers, the use of ailerons is not prohibited, however planes that are designed for R/E/Throttle tend to be more self correcting than planes designed for ailerons.

Some self trainers can go right to ailerons. But my observation is that self trainers seem to do better and advance more easily with fewer crashes with high wing, high dihedral planes that are designed for R/E/T then those designed for ailerons.

The primary value of ailerons is more positive roll control. However many self trainers suffer from over control initally. It is much easier to over control the plane when it has ailerons.

The negative of ailerons is that planes designed for this tend to be less self leveling and less self correcting since they don't need high wing dihedral in order to roll the plane. With a plane designed to roll based on rudder input the plane MUST have high dihedral wings in order to turn/roll. This makes all R/E planes self leveling and more stable by necessity.

There are aileron based planes that do have high dihedral designs. The GWS e-starter comes to mind as a good example. You can fly this plane on rudder alone without the ailerons.

So, it is not the presence or absence of ailerons that makes the plane a good choice for self trainers. It is the wing design and stability of planes that do not have aileorns that causes them to be recommended as first planes for self trainers.

Your experience may vary.

[chiefredelk]

When I came back to the hobby I came back on ailerions. For the life of me I can't understand WHY anyone would start out training with a 3 channel plane.. When you fly a good smooth alieron ship you will see what I mean...Recently, I purchased the TW Cessna 747 all foam plane. They say it's EPO. I can't say.. It came with a 370 brushed in a gear box with an 8 inch orange prop. I made a prop saver out of a servo arm..Mine was shipped for under 100 bucks.. NOW, I see them for up to 200 bucks but I feel that is over priced.. The foam is soft so most of my plane ( leading edges trailng edges under the wing etc.) is covered in wide clear packing tape..I used epoxy to assemble the planet..IT flies like a dream and has plenty of power to do what I want. I recommend packing tape along the bottom of the fuselage too. This is soft foam and does ding up easily..The tape works like a dream to make the plane stronger.... Compared to my Wing Dragon, HZ Swift and Phantom the Cessna 747 is my favorite plane to fly..It's a full 4 channel system that can be moved to another plane.. The servo's don't look good but I have new ones on hand bought from Headsuprc for about 6 bucks each..So far I have replaced only the alieron servo..The motor brushes are weak and if you break thye motor in under water they will burn out very soon. Frankly, I love the plane but I don't think it's a good deal if it cost more than about 115 / 120 bucks delievered. However,, it sure out flies my Wing Dragon and the servo's are just as good if not better...The wing span on this Cessna is about 36 inches. It's white foam so I air brushed it yellow. It does fly well. I did not like the Cessna 182 I had before. It seemed to tip stall badly. You can see a video at Bannahobbies if you are interested. I made some important mods so anyone who wants to buy this plane feel free to contact me. I think the mods are important.

[rcplaneguy1]

Hi Domino, i have the EXACT same problem! On my youtube channel (rcplaneguy1) and another friend of mine suggested the new Micro Parkzone P-51D thats a BNF (if you have a 2.4ghz controller) and RTF. It is a 4ch plane and im going to buy it and reveiw it.
Good luck!
rcplaneguy1

[camazar]

Maybe you should start with Ultra Micro first so the insult to injury won't be so bad when just Beginning to use more of the 4th Channel...?