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Old 09-30-2008, 09:43 AM   #1
BnWasteland
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Default If I knew what you know now (or how I should learn to stop worrying and love 3ch)

Greets all,

First off, great forum. I've learned a lot today. Thanks for the resource.

I'm about to buy my first rc plane. Never touched one before. I live in a populated area, and space is available wherever I can steal it.

I guess my question is, all the beginner rigs seem to be 3ch. I just don't wanna. Do I have to? Can't I jump straight into an aileron-equipped plane, or is there some measure of personal character that comes from learning to fly inverted with only a rudder (look ma, no flaps)?

Or am I just being arrogant?
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Old 09-30-2008, 09:49 AM   #2
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IMO, it would depend on a few things, including your reaction time, coordination and previous knowledge of flying.

The first time I ever flew was an electric boomerang 60, ailerons included. Granted this is a fairly slow and steady trainer. Also worth noting that I was on the primary remote, with no backup in case of emergency.

Really depends how confident you are in your ability. Try and get some time on a simulator if you can, this definately helped me. A friend or local RC shop might have a copy you could take for a spin. Some shops have them set up for customers to try, without paying. Flying in one of these from 'fixed view' will give you a reasonable indication of how well you can react to certain RC situations.
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:52 AM   #3
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If you have an experienced flier who can help you for the first few flights go straight for 4 ch.

If you have LOTS of experience flying 4ch in a simulator go for it. But I mean lots of time with you controlling the plane, getting it to do exactly what you want it to....not just throwing it around and most of the time keeping up with it more or less. About the hardest thing to do in a simulator is take off, fly one figure 8 circuit at a consistent height and then land correctly on the runway....try it .

Otherwise a basic 3ch trainer will be less disheartening. Most people don't find it as easy to fly as you seem to think it is....you may be the exception but why not give it try first with a plane that's helping you not one that's always trying to catch you out .

BTW a 3ch plane doesn't have only a rudder, the elevator is rather important too....and just as soon as you can consistently fly an inverted figure of 8 with your 3ch plane you will certainly be ready for 4ch .

Steve
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:32 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by BnWasteland View Post
Greets all,

First off, great forum. I've learned a lot today. Thanks for the resource.

I'm about to buy my first rc plane. Never touched one before. I live in a populated area, and space is available wherever I can steal it.

I guess my question is, all the beginner rigs seem to be 3ch. I just don't wanna. Do I have to? Can't I jump straight into an aileron-equipped plane, or is there some measure of personal character that comes from learning to fly inverted with only a rudder (look ma, no flaps)?

Or am I just being arrogant?
This is almost like a "Dear Abby" letter.

Dear Arrogant,

This is a very common question. Many people come here asking if they should just jump into an advanced plane, even though all the planes made for beginners have the same 3 channel limitations. The scene plays out the same way almost every time.

Beginner: Should I get something more advanced than a 3 channel plane?

Entire RC Community: No, get the 3 channel.

Beginner: But I think I can do it, the mustang looks more fun than the Cessna.

Entire RC Community: Stick with the Cessna, you're going to crash no matter what, but it will be less severe in the Cessna, and likely less often.

Beginner: Ok, but is it POSSIBLE for someone to start on a 4 channel?

Entire RC Community: Yes, it's possible, but not recommended.


Then it splits off into five possibilities.


The good...

Beginner: Wow, that was great! I just came back from flying my 3 channel for the first time. It was hard, but we did it. I am sure glad I didn't try flying that other plane, I can see how it would get out of control real fast.


The bad...

I bought myself the 4 channel that I liked. First flight as soon as it took off it rolled to the left, and smashed into the ground. I was able to fix it, and I tried again. This time I got higher, but lost orientation, and it nosed right in. Now I don't have a plane, I am thinking about giving up.


The ugly...

This sucked, the plane crashed, but it was the planes fault, not mine. You guys don't know what you're talking about, I would have been fine if it wasn't for this crummy plane, I don't see how they stay in business with such terrible designs.


The 4th scenario...

I bought a sim, and found an instructor. After flying on the simulator, and crashing a lot, I see that this is harder than I thought it would be. My instructor has one of those buddy box things, that lets him take over if I mess up. He has to take over a lot. I think I am going to set my 4 channel plane aside for a while, and buy something I can learn on.




of course, there's the 5th scenario, it doesn't happen very often. Some feel the need to go through with it though.


You guys were wrong. I flew my plane, it was easy. Maybe you couldn't start with a 4 channel, but I did, and it was fine. No, I have no video, and I can't take any pictures of the plane as it is now. Not because it's smashed, just, um, because. So, yeah, I did it, really, I did, contrary to your advice. Ok, I'll just fade away now, and you'll never see me again. Not because I am ashamed I smashed my plane, and had to lie about it, just because it was so easy, I am bored with it, and all of this... yeah, that's the ticket.

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Old 09-30-2008, 02:27 PM   #5
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Only you Fred...good notations though friend.

I would go with the 3ch plane, especially if you have never flown before and don't have an experienced pilot to help you out. A sim would definitely benefit you, it did for me.

I practiced with a sim for about two months before I ever flew my first plane. However, my first plane had ailerons (4ch), but I had a fellow wattflyer member and experienced pilot with me helping me out. I couldn't have done it without his help. Thanks max2112! I've now been flying for a year and am the proud owner of three warbirds (P-51 Mustang, P-47 Thunderbolt, and the Spitfire). I also have a few EDFs and some aerobatic sport planes.

Even flying my 3ch Super Cub was a little scary, because I was all over the place. I didn't fly the 4ch until I had an experienced pilot with me. It's exciting and scary all at the same time friend. After a while you'll get better and better and then you get the "addiction"! Good luck and good winds friend.

The best teacher in the world is experience...now go fly something already
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:33 PM   #6
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perfect example posted quite recently...

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...91&postcount=1


Originally Posted by jksecunda View Post
I purchased an Eflite Apprentice a few weeks ago. They seem a little pricey, but I thought after flying the Super Cub for a few months, I would upgrade to a plane with alerons. Well, I have heard different opinions on this subject, from its easier that 3 channel to its very hard to learn. Well, I went out yesterday, took my 300 dollar plane with alerons, and was like a beginner again. I did get it up in the air, but could not get it trimmed in. I dont know if I had the alerons the right way. It seemed that I could not get control of the plane. I finally landed it and then, after having a difficult flight, sent it up again. Well the landing went worse. And again. And that went worse still. I went home very dissapointed. Rebuilt the plane today. Lots of packing tape and getting the plane sort of trimmed on the ground again. I decided this time to throw the plane for launch. It went up for about 50 feet, and turned right, circled around, and dove into the ground. Broke off the motor mount and ruined the cowel.
Needless to say, I am not happy. I will probably go back to flying my Super Cub but feel I wasted this money. I just dont understand why I could not control the plane. Like it had a mind of its own.

Thats my story. Just gonna sit and sulk right now. Then go out and fly the SC tomorrow.

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Old 09-30-2008, 04:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey View Post
This is almost like a "Dear Abby" letter.

Dear Arrogant,

This is a very common question. Many people come here asking...
Thanks, Abby,

I dunno, I guess my thinking was that I've spet quite a bit of time flying traditional flight sims (ww2, microsoft, what have you) and studied some towards a pilots license. I understand what happens when you steer a full size plane with rudder/elevator only, and it seems like that would be harder to control than something equipped with a full set of cotrol surfaces. Does this make sense?

And I was kinda hoping there was still a "cheap" option that wouldn't break me for the crashes.

Nonetheless, you know infinitely better than I, so I will go ahead and get the Cub. If I outgrow it too quickly, it'll make a nice hand-me-down to the next arrogant twit.

Thanks,
Humbled
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Old 09-30-2008, 04:39 PM   #8
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I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the fun you can have with the Cub. There is no shame in learning from others mistakes; there is great shame in not heeding good advice and wasting money.

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Old 09-30-2008, 05:09 PM   #9
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the only other option, is to fly 400+ hours on Realflight g4 and then get a t28 trojan, But I wouldn't recomend it...LOL

SK

PS, buy yourself a supercub... fly the crap out of it, then fly 100+ hours on the sim, then get yourself a dx7 convert your cub to ailerons... fly it some more... then get a pnp trojan...LOL

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Old 09-30-2008, 05:55 PM   #10
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I just went thru this... Saw the EDF's on Youtube and was "this close" to buying one. Thank the sweet lord the people on here steered me down the SuperCub route. I've spent as much time fixing it as flying, but I can see that my first flight would likely have been my last had I bought a much faster flying and more complicated to control EDF and all the other expensive stuff (Tx, Rx, etc...) that goes along, cause the Cub was reacting almost too fast for me to keep up. I didn't use the ACT at the advice of someone on this forum. But with only a few days of flying, I can get her to behave pretty well, and I'm mildly impressed with how fast you can get her to go in a dive from up high... Almost tore my wings off climbing out cause the velcro let go of the struts and I thought they were gonna fold.
Anyway, from my limited experience, the SuperCub is the way to go to get into this hobby. The price of Gas and GLOW planes are what kept me out for so long...
And from what I've read so far, if you're even just a little handy, you can put Aelerons on the Cub if you step up to a 4 ch. electronics rig.
I'm gonna throw a bigger battery in mine as soon as someone responds to my post http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...244#post483244 , to let me know if those Zippy-Hs are any good. In any case, I hope you find something you like and enjoy it. This is a great time to be getting into this hobby, as batteries are getting lighter and more powerful....
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Old 09-30-2008, 06:26 PM   #11
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Hi BnWasteland,

First off, WELCOME to R/C flying!

You made a good start by coming to this forum and asking for advice. Whether you put that advice to good use is your option.

There is no right way and wrong way of starting in this hobby. Every person is an individual and what is right for me might not be right for you. The answers that you receive are mostly based on the experiences of the people who are making them, whether they are personnal experiences, observations or lessons learned through this and other forums. FlyingMonkey gave you a scenario that is accurate for most of the beginner flyers. There have been flyers who actually learned to fly on intermediate and/or advanced planes, but they are the rare exception. While its possible that you might be in the very small percentage of flyers who can start successfully with a difficult plane, or who has the time/skill/finances to persevere through crash after crash after crash, the smart money is on the person who starts with a good beginner plane. Since you live in a populated area, you must particularly be mindful of not placing others in jeopardy, so you want to start with a plane that will give you the best chance of success.

The HobbyZone SuperCub has proven to be the very best beginner plane. Another great plane, although not my choice because it doesn't have landing gear, is the Multiplex EasyStar. Both of these planes can take an incredible amount of abuse and continue flying, yet they are great fun, even as your skills improve and you are able to fly more advanced planes.

Before you make your first flight, be sure to STUDY and MEMORIZE the information presented here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355208
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Old 09-30-2008, 08:19 PM   #12
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Also there is the GWS Slow Stick. Very forgiving, easy to fly, repair and easy on the wallet.

Read up, do some studing and homework. You'll find the one for you.

Enjoy!

P.S. Out of all the other forums, this is the most friendly.
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Old 09-30-2008, 08:24 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by kolchac View Post
P.S. Out of all the other forums, this is the most friendly.
Unless I'm in one of my moods...LOL

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Old 09-30-2008, 08:48 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ministeve2003 View Post
Unless I'm in one of my moods...LOL

SK
That's true
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Old 09-30-2008, 10:21 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by BnWasteland View Post
Thanks, Abby,

I dunno, I guess my thinking was that I've spet quite a bit of time flying traditional flight sims (ww2, microsoft, what have you) and studied some towards a pilots license. I understand what happens when you steer a full size plane with rudder/elevator only, and it seems like that would be harder to control than something equipped with a full set of cotrol surfaces. Does this make sense?

Thanks,
Humbled
First person flight sims will not help you in the least. Find a hobby shop with a Real Flight display, and try out some of the planes on it.

It is a consensus among rc pilots (even converted full scale pilots) that full scale pilots have the hardest time learning to fly from the ground.

Rc planes set up with RE only are designed with this in mind. They have a pronounced dihedral in the wing, causing it to roll slightly with rudder input, much like you would do if trying to turn with ailerons. (which also leads to some problems for new pilots. they treat it as if it was an rc car, and that it will turn with "turn input" alone. you need to use some up elevator, then when in the direction you are heading, use opposite rudder to level it back out)

As far as being bored with the cub, ask anyone that has one, it's their go to plane. No one that gets involved with the hobby has just one plane. I love flying my cub, in fact, it's the one I put the floats on. (Admittedly, I made a spare wing with flaps and ailerons, but the solid wing flies better IMO)

The "boring" cub....

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Old 09-30-2008, 11:32 PM   #16
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If and/or when I smash up one of my other planes, I grab the Slow Stick. It calms me down and brings my confidence back up.

Would like to find a Super Cub without power system. Been wanting one. I got all the guts.

Enjoy
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:34 PM   #17
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My planes are still 3ch (:

"If you stand behind me... You gonna get kicked." - Zebraman.
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:48 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by kolchac View Post

Would like to find a Super Cub without power system. Been wanting one. I got all the guts.

Enjoy
you could get the parts here...
http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/...upercub_parts/

bare airframe, wing, tail, landing gear, wheels, cowl, wingstruts

PS, get an extra firewall for the screws they are the same ones for the tail... and last time I checked... the stupid tail didn't come with them.... its like $1.79

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Old 10-01-2008, 05:36 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by fr4nk1yn View Post
My planes are still 3ch (:
yeah but when you scratchbuild planes with throttle, flapatailercrowlerons and rudderfaddermuddervators, it doesn't count lol


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Old 10-01-2008, 05:40 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey View Post
The "boring" cub...
Oye. Nice footage. The soundtrack on the second one made me feel like I was part of some free-form jazz odyssey.

Anyways, on to my question... How many minutes of flight time do you get with your TP 2409-18 and the 1300 Loong Max?

Das GRUber

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Old 10-01-2008, 05:40 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
yeah but when you scratchbuild planes with throttle, flapatailercrowlerons and rudderfaddermuddervators, it doesn't count lol

hahaha... now thats too funny...LOL

are the muddervators the part that gets stuck into the ground on nose-first-impact...lol
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:44 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ministeve2003 View Post
hahaha... now thats too funny...LOL

are the muddervators the part that gets stuck into the ground on nose-first-impact...lol
SK
Yep. On a hard nose-in, the muddervators help actuate the rescue winch lol

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Old 10-01-2008, 05:47 AM   #23
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I don't think I can afford one of those new fangle rescue winches.... I guess I'll just have to leave it planted... maybe it can sprout some baby planes...lol
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:43 PM   #24
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Cool thanks Ministeve2003!
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:23 PM   #25
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My boyfriend and I are newbies. I haven't flown yet, but my boyfriend has gone to the field and flew 3 weekends in a row. He started with the SuperCub, and crashed it a couple of times the first weekend. That's actually how he was introduced to the other hobbyists- they saw his plane and helped him fixed it!

The SuperCub is great because the parts are readily available at a lot of local hobby shops and they're cheap to replace. Also, some of the parts can be fixed with epoxy.

Try to get to know the experienced local flyers, who can show you how to fix and fly.
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