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Old 02-06-2006, 03:09 PM   #1
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Default YIPPEEE! Old Timers Forum!!!

Hello Everyone, Welcome to the All-Electric Vintage & Old Timers Forum! Nostalgia-era models welcome too. A BIG "Thanks" to Admin for giving us a spot to post, if you followed my origional request for this forum you'll know it had over 700 "reads" and the poll was nearly 90% in favor.
Now that we're live and on-line I'll post the links for O/T rules, Orgs, S.I.G.s and vendors. Feel free to add your favorites and get this thing rolling!!
LINKS, RULES & S.I.G.s
www.vintagercsociety.org
www.electricaircraft.org/2003rules.htm
www.antiquemodeler.org
http://www.antiquemodeler.org/
http://www.classic-patternrc.com/

Vendors, Kits, Plans

http://www.jimoreillymodelplans.com
http://academodel.nsunet.ru/plans/Comet/ (Plans For Comet Kits, Free! Thanks, Paul)
http://www.skybench.com
http://www.soy.on.ca/Plane2.html
http://www.bhplans.com
http://www.quietcow.com
http://www.freeflightmodels.com
http://www.aalmps.com
http://www.bmjrmodels.com
http://www.earlyrcmodels.com
http://www.benbucklevintage.com
http://www.falconmodels.uk.com
http://www.modelaircraft.org/plansmain.asp (AMA Plans Service)
http://www.modelairtech.com/
http://www.theplanpage.com/index.htm (Free)
http://www.ualberta.ca/~khorne/ (Free)
http://plans.rcmodell.hu/oldtime.html (Free)
http://www.parmodels.com/Plans/jigtime.htm (Free)
http://jetex.org/models/links-plans-bage.html (Free)
http://www.thestuarts.eclipse.co.uk/ (Free)
http://webpages.charter.net/skylane42/collector.html (Kits Collectors Price Guide)

Let's pitch in and post photos, comments and questions. Old Timers were the first " Park Flyers", after all!
Thanks to Bob (Demon-leather) for the links!
Ron
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Old 04-29-2006, 12:02 PM   #2
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Default plans

How about posting links to free plans as well, it seems all of these guys are selling something. If you really want to breath new life into this one, posting resources like that would get people more involved. I'm not seeing alot of plans, much less free ones from the old timers designs within scale to current electric brushed motors. ie. 36" to 48" wing span.
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Old 04-29-2006, 01:36 PM   #3
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Default Free Plans?

To Express Outfitters, Welcome to Wattflyer! It would be great if there were some free plans avaiilable, but to tell the truth I don't know of any.
Most of the plan suppliers I have listed obtained the rights or written permission to re-use the drawings, but not being an expert on copyrighted material, I can't say for sure what would be involved if anyone offered them at no cost. I'm guessing there would be some expense involved, at least the printing and postage cost.
To be honest, it's probably not the $5.00-$10.00 for plans that stop flyers from "scratch" building a model, it's the 50 hours (or more) of assembly time that's hard to come up with. While the readers of a Forum like this one are used to spending a month of weekends on one model, there's a vast number of flyers who (can't, won't, don't have a building space, don't have time, family obligations, work schedule- you fill it in) would rather have an ARF. I'm a "builder" but fully understand that we are in the minority. ARFs, as Tim Hooper pointed out in another thread, support the hobby.
Sorry to be a "wet blanket", I think your idea is great, but the reality of modeling now is (at least where I fly) 90% ARFs/RTFs. 10% "scratch" or kit build.
If any readers know of free plans, go ahead and post them!
Ron
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Old 04-29-2006, 01:56 PM   #4
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Default hmm...

copyrights have expiration dates big time, chances are, most of these are not legally exclusive to who bought them, they just have an exclusive circle of traders. I agree, ARF's and RTF's are the way to go if you handle this on the commercial market, I'm finding a major blend, where some ARF's are almost RTF's, and ARf's that are closer to kits. I do have to say though, there is a very large gap between rtf's and kit's when both are assembled and compared side by side.

Perhaps one might want to turn these old timer designs, true to their original nature, paper covering and all and turn them into ARF's and/or RTF's.
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Old 05-01-2006, 12:54 PM   #5
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I buy the old-timer plans off feebay and have yet to build one. Instead, I use the tailfeather and fuse design in other models, like the Kadetito and my Cleveland Air Racer.


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Old 05-27-2006, 07:20 PM   #6
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Default Gotha Best of Show

Saw this old timer today at a small IMAA fly-in. Thought it looked familiar. It is a recent "best of show" winner, and featured in a recent mag. Was worth going just to see the model, and see it in flight. The owner was not quite as excitable. The boy in the pic wasn't sure if he should stay in view or not. I told him to stay. He was quite fascinated by the plane, and is also good size reference. Its really quite larger than it looks in the pic. Something like 12 foot span. Electric twin, or course.


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Old 05-28-2006, 12:06 AM   #7
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Default

Originally Posted by Espresso-Outfitters View Post
copyrights have expiration dates big time, chances are, most of these are not legally exclusive to who bought them, they just have an exclusive circle of traders. I agree, ARF's and RTF's are the way to go if you handle this on the commercial market, I'm finding a major blend, where some ARF's are almost RTF's, and ARf's that are closer to kits. I do have to say though, there is a very large gap between rtf's and kit's when both are assembled and compared side by side.

Perhaps one might want to turn these old timer designs, true to their original nature, paper covering and all and turn them into ARF's and/or RTF's.
Copyright expiration table
http://inventors.about.com/library/b...ght_expire.htm
I hope this helps.

Truth is treason in the empire of lies
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Old 05-28-2006, 03:47 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Bill G View Post
Saw this old timer today at a small IMAA fly-in. Thought it looked familiar. It is a recent "best of show" winner, and featured in a recent mag. Was worth going just to see the model, and see it in flight. The owner was not quite as excitable. The boy in the pic wasn't sure if he should stay in view or not. I told him to stay. He was quite fascinated by the plane, and is also good size reference. Its really quite larger than it looks in the pic. Something like 12 foot span. Electric twin, or course.
That Gotha be a big model!!!
 
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Old 05-28-2006, 03:54 AM   #9
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Although not electric, this original Berkeley Astro Hog (1961 vintage) and its Anderson Spitfire Series 6100 power plant are both original oldies/vintage samples.

Wouldn't part with them for all the tea in China.


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Old 05-28-2006, 03:17 PM   #10
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Default

Originally Posted by qban_flyer View Post
That Gotha be a big model!!!
Yes it was!

We'll, I got a kick out of something last night. The owner had been discreet in correcting me, about my comment on seeing it in a mag. He said "It had a 3 page article". I told him that I remembered seeing only a single pic, on a right hand page, in the upper right. (My anal retention to detail) Well I found it last night in British Flying Scale, an issue back or so. It was just as I stated. He's Gotha be aware of all the mags his plane's featured in, to avoid embarrasments like that in the future.

(By the way, take that ugly glow head out of the Anderson Spitfire, and fit a nice concealed outrunner in it)

Bill
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Old 05-28-2006, 10:49 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Bill G View Post
Yes it was!

We'll, I got a kick out of something last night. The owner had been discreet in correcting me, about my comment on seeing it in a mag. He said "It had a 3 page article". I told him that I remembered seeing only a single pic, on a right hand page, in the upper right. (My anal retention to detail) Well I found it last night in British Flying Scale, an issue back or so. It was just as I stated. He's Gotha be aware of all the mags his plane's featured in, to avoid embarrasments like that in the future.

(By the way, take that ugly glow head out of the Anderson Spitfire, and fit a nice concealed outrunner in it)

Bill
NAW!

That Astro Hog and its engine get invited to old timer events all over. I just go along to make sure they don't get in trouble.
 
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Old 05-30-2006, 06:13 AM   #12
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OK !!! HOW OLD IS IT TO BE OLD TIME !! does this mean the C/L I did with my brother in the SEARS parking lot in the 60's or the FF my DAD showed me that I just wasn't into at the time !! Or is it the ARF I bought 2 years ago and still don't have time to finish. Keith
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Old 05-30-2006, 06:17 AM   #13
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I think the only ARF models that may qualify as Old Timers is the garbage DUBRO and LANIER peddled from the early and mid 70s.

I have no clue about C/L and F/F since this appears to be an RC Forum exclusively. I could be wrong though.
 
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Old 05-30-2006, 12:23 PM   #14
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Eligibility Rules for the Society of Antique Modelers; Radio Control

"SECTION I - AIRCRAFT DEFINITIONS
1. Old Timer (OT) and Antique categories are defined as aircraft which have been DESIGNED, KITTED, or PLANS PUBLISHED prior to December 31, 1942 and December 31, 1938 respectively. Authentication of design is the responsibility of the contestant. Claims made for prior design date shall be authenticated by documented proof (dated photographs, affidavits, etc.). These shall be submitted to a review board (made up of current SAM officers and as appointed by the SAM President) for approval. These authenticated prior designs will be published as a supplement to the rule book, in a hand book entitled the Society of Antique Modelers Approved Designs List. All powered R/C models including 1/2 A Texaco, must have originally been gas powered (i.e. no rubber models).
2. The contestant must, if requested, prove the fidelity to the original design by submitting to the Contest Director (C.D.) a copy of the original, or authenticated blueprints from which the model was built, or scaled."

There are other rules for "Texaco", Free Flight", eligible engines, fuel, electric conversions, etc.


Rules for the Vintage R/C Society;
WHAT AIRCRAFT ARE ELIGIBLE?

"Any model airplane that employed radio control and was kited, published or flown (attested to by the builder) prior to January 1, 1970 is eligible under VR/CS rules. There are three classifications: Pioneer, prior to Jan. 1, 1950; Vintage, prior to Jan. 1, 1966 and Nostalgia, prior to Jan. 1, 1970"

These are the short versions of the Rules. For the full text, see the Special Interest Groups (S.I.G.s) that are linked on the Sticky for this Forum.
This "Old Timers" Forum is not as restrictive as the competition rules. As we've discussed earlier, any model design that is "In the spirit" of the Old Timer/Vintage/Antique type of model is welcome here.
Ron
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Old 10-28-2006, 12:03 PM   #15
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Default Replikit

Hi guys,

Just wanted you let you all know that REPLIKIT is back and with all the old keilkraft, veron, mercury, comet, skyleada, richard crossley and steve bage designs. The only difference is that we now own REPLIKIT and were not allowed to use teh keilkraft, mercury and veron names, so we have the RKK, RKVERO and RKMERC as the range. For example if you wanted a Keilkraft Eaglet you would get an RKK Eaglet.

Please visit www.replikit.com to view all these old kits available, not as print wood anymore but as either FULL LASER CUT KITS or SHORT LASER CUT KITS, i.e. plans and LASER CUT parts. This includes all the small flying scale, tru-flight ranges as full kits, most of the control line kits, gliders, rubber power and freeflight, more kits being added daily. You can also aquire hard copy plans and CD`s with 25 plans on each.

I hope that REPLIKIT will get the support that the original owners had so that we can bring these wonderfull kits back to you from our past.

Thank you for reading.

Best regards,

Mike.

M.J.Black M.D Green Air Designs Holdings

www.replikit.com
www.greenairdesigns.com
www.blackandwhitemodels.com
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Old 01-31-2007, 08:04 PM   #16
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I am very pleased to see this forum here, having just finished a 1946 French Champion (converted to 3 channel speed 400) and having hopes of doing a Mystery Man and a Halfax Spartan.
There seems to be some confusion as to wether this forum is for Vintage aircraft models or models of vintage aircraft (which would just make into a scale/warbird forum for pre 1950 aircraft) and some firm clarification on this would appear to be needed.
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Old 02-01-2007, 01:36 AM   #17
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Default Old or Older?

Hello Kiwi, Welcome to Wattflyer! This Forum is for Vintage and Old Timer Models, that is, model aircraft designs that were kitted, published or designed before a certain date (See post # 14). In other words, they were always models, not scaled-down full-size aircraft
It is not for scale models of Vintage (full-size) aircraft. That would be either "Scale", WWI or WWII, depending on the aircraft's age.
Most of the "Old Timer" models weren't based on any full-size aircraft, they were designed for Free Flight duration. They have (usually) "stick + Tissue" construction, polyhedral, large tail surfaces and no moveable control surfaces.
Over time, modelers "updated" these models, built replicas, but added modern features like radio control, electric motors, modern construction and coverings and started flying them in (usually) "Limited Motor Run "LMR" competions.
For "Vintage" models, which are replicas of model aircraft designed since the advent of Radio Control, (like the 1950's) the models have been updated with modern radios, powerplants, but still retain the original "outline" or planform.
They are usually flown in aerobatic competition, and there are a few categories, roughly late 1940's to 1950, 1950-1966, 1966-1970. Models that were designed within one of those periods compete against other, similar "age" models.
Hope this helps!
Ron
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Old 02-01-2007, 02:33 AM   #18
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Ron, that was precisely my point, (having been modelling for 50 years some of these were the latest when I started out, I built my first KK Eaglet in 1956).
I am well aware of the categories but it seems from the postings that others are not eg # 6 here and other recent postings on different threads in this forum.Some of the models being posted with designed as late as 2004, whereas the Mystery Man was June 39 and the Spartan in 1947. I know the story, but others don't and it for them that I was seeking clarification from you (and perhaps their threads should be moved to more appropriate forums)
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Old 02-01-2007, 02:58 AM   #19
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Default Clearing It Up?

Hello Kiwi, I guessed from your post that you knew the different categories, but you're right, it's better to have it explained fully.
Part of the problem is the different meaning of terms like "Vintage' and "Old Timer". Any aircraft from 50 years ago could be properly be called "Vintage' but only a model aircraft from that time can be eligible in a "Vintage" contest, not a scale model of a full-size design.
I have at times tried to steer posters to the Scale Forum, but many keep posting here when they get replies on this Forum. I'd rather not be so strict as to cause folks to feel they weren't welcome, it's better to have them post in the "wrong" Forum than to not post at all!
There is also the "Old Scale Kit" factor. The Cleveland, Berkeley, Comet, Keilkraft models from years ago are seeing a revival. Some are specifically "models" and some are "scale models". But they all would qualify as "Old timers" since they were kitted so long ago.
So I usually post a reminder, then let readers decide where they feel most comfortable posting.
Ron
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Old 02-02-2007, 12:21 AM   #20
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Ron, something that may, perhaps, help solve this problem a bit (or at least decrease it) could be to change the sub title from "Discuss nostalgic vintage aircraft" to read "Discuss nostalgic vintage models".
cheers
Nev
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Old 06-18-2007, 11:43 PM   #21
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Default Old Timers

Originally Posted by Sky Sharkster View Post
Hello Kiwi, I guessed from your post that you knew the different categories, but you're right, it's better to have it explained fully.
Part of the problem is the different meaning of terms like "Vintage' and "Old Timer". Any aircraft from 50 years ago could be properly be called "Vintage' but only a model aircraft from that time can be eligible in a "Vintage" contest, not a scale model of a full-size design.
I have at times tried to steer posters to the Scale Forum, but many keep posting here when they get replies on this Forum. I'd rather not be so strict as to cause folks to feel they weren't welcome, it's better to have them post in the "wrong" Forum than to not post at all!
There is also the "Old Scale Kit" factor. The Cleveland, Berkeley, Comet, Keilkraft models from years ago are seeing a revival. Some are specifically "models" and some are "scale models". But they all would qualify as "Old timers" since they were kitted so long ago.
So I usually post a reminder, then let readers decide where they feel most comfortable posting.
Ron
I have just posted two of these typs [ large ] in the "for sale forum " you can get a good look at what we flew a long time back, my posts are Waofvf ,i would have put them on this forum ,but i am selling them ,so, thats why they are there ,thanks for the forum ,ill be watching from time to time ,Vern
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:15 PM   #22
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Default Puffin 1/2A

Thought I could contribute to this intristing thread by sending pictures from my 1/A Puffin. Originally I constructed a little one from an free flying kit driven by two mall 50 mAh nicads and an tiny electric motor. It flew so well without any sort of RC assistance so I enlarged the drawing to 1/2 A size for en .049 Babe Bee. It flew fine too. Now it is ten years old . As me too is old and tired to fire up unreliable Coxés, I have put on an Nippy outrunner, which also Puffin likes very well. You may look at attached pictures on this uglu but cosy stub nosed model.
Tore from Sweden
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:19 PM   #23
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Default Puffin 1/2A

Sorry! I missed to send the pic´s. Here is the web adress to my Puffin album:
http://picasaweb.google.se/toreloodin/puffin12.
Tore
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Old 07-11-2007, 01:15 AM   #24
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Default Puffin Still Flying!

Hello Tore, Welcome to the Vintage + Old Timers Forum!
Sounds like your 1/2A Puffin has plenty of air time on it, glad to see it's still flying! Lots of the Old Timers had stubby noses and deep fuselages, before they went to a pylon wing mount.
Is that a Vic Smeed design? Falcon Models in Great Britain has several others like the Tomboy + Chatterbox, look very similar.
http://www.falconmodels.uk.com/acata...cessories.html scroll to bottom of page.
Thanks for the photos!
Ron
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Old 04-08-2010, 04:37 PM   #25
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Wrong Post sorry.
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