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Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

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Old 02-12-2006, 07:50 PM   #1
St. Martin
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Default For the Central American balsa gods.. RT MiG-15

All natural, all wood. With a lot of silk, a little silkspan, and some glass. It even feels like a model aerio-type plane. AUW is 40oz. Power is the minifan, HET 2W-EDF, 3s PQ-3700XP, C.C. phoenix 80. HOC is 510W @ 50A. Dropping to 45A,455W. This levels off at 47A, 473W after the battery warms up.

Ducting is homemade, bifurcated the entire length. Made from 2 layers 2oz E-glass with the grain running around the circumferance. MAS low viscosity epoxies used. Exaust just rolled drafting mylar w/56mm outlet.

Aux. wing tanks are functional and use the Foremost Racing mechanics.

Now for some pics..

Steve


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Old 02-12-2006, 07:56 PM   #2
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Next are the wings. Plus the silk covering. Strange airfoil. Has a negative chamber on the top rear of the chord.

Steve


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Old 02-12-2006, 08:07 PM   #3
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Ducting is next in preperation for the fuselage. Also shown is a set of T-33 intakes(Justins)


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Old 02-12-2006, 08:19 PM   #4
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Then the fuselage. Bottom half is built first. Because I donot own a magnetic building board, and I dropped my piece of tempered glass, I had to notch the bulkheads an form a laminated crutch. Planking is 1/4x3/32" balsa. Anyone owning one of these short kits and wishes to modify it for the minfan, instead of the forward mounted KY fan, I have the modified templates on file for the bulkheads and I can make glass ducting for same.

Steve


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Old 02-12-2006, 08:31 PM   #5
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Canopy mold/canopy, glassed fuselage, and wing tank assembly. Tank is silkspan and Mod Podge puzzle sealer, covered.

Time to go shovel some white stuff. Be back later..


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Old 02-12-2006, 09:25 PM   #6
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WOW..had to go out the front door. The back door had 4' of the white stuff drifted against it. The back of my S-10 was gone.

Next pics are of the assembly, radio area in the cockpit, battery hatch and fan access hatch. Plane was then given two light coats of Krylon satin clear.


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Old 02-12-2006, 10:06 PM   #7
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Tamiya Acrylics were used. Decals were a gift from Tom Jacoby at warbirdkits.com He also made me a set of Iraqi decals. I sized these down and repainted my Wattage MiG in the Iraqi scheme. I guess I'll be MiGMan at the feild this spring. The wattage flew great last yr. It uses the cut KY rotor, Mega 16/15/3, and a PQ-2200 3s. I advanced the timing to get 205W @ 20A. Last yr it flew on a 10-1050 kans. And the timing was retarded to mode 2. Only 175W @ 17A. So now it's 4oz lighter and more power. Next I'll try the little MiG with the HET 2W and the cut minifan rotor on a 3s. I have been experimenting with the cut minfan rotor with an Astro 805(3700Kv) and a 12-1300cp. So with the HET(4750Kv) it should scream on the 3s.

Thats all.. Thanks for viewing my work!

Steve


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Old 02-13-2006, 01:10 AM   #8
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Beutiful work. Just a few more months until you can get her in the air. :p

4'!!! This morning you were joking about the nor'easter and it looks like it got ya!

Justin

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Old 02-13-2006, 04:05 AM   #9
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Always great to see your planes!

Have you checked out Wings Palette for color schemes? 300 different mig-15s, even Congolese!

Did you see RT models has a Vampire coming out? Right up your alley...
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Old 02-13-2006, 04:06 AM   #10
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No fooling on the Noreaster...2nd worst storm in 100 years in NYC. Incredible snow, almost two feet!
Took my four year old to central park for some sledding...the secret is WD40 on the bottom of the sled!
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Old 02-13-2006, 03:03 PM   #11
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Wow..Your son has a sled?? When I was a boy I used a piece of cardboard. The bigger kids were even poorer..they used ME!

Steve
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Old 02-13-2006, 03:40 PM   #12
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Daughter! And she is a modeller, too! She has built a couple of vintage plastic kits, plus a Comet F-94 profile model, and a HobbyTime vacuform Skyray!
She is utterly fearless, first thing she wants to do is go down the BIGGEST trail, the one with the bumps and trees! No problem!
She has one of those round disk sleds from American Flyer...
In Central Park yesterday, LOTS of people were sliding on cardboard...a new one for me was people just climbed into a plastic bag and used THAT as a sled! It works! Also popular are the cafeteria trays from New York University...
Funny to see a Wall Street stockbroker in a fur coat sliding down a hill on an old cardboard box....

This was the best snowstorm ever. Most snow ever, and it was not too cold or windy, it was actually nice to be outside.
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Old 02-17-2006, 03:54 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by St. Martin View Post
Wow..Your son has a sled?? When I was a boy I used a piece of cardboard. The bigger kids were even poorer..they used ME!
Steve
Wow Steve, I must have missed this one. Excellent work as always. Like the scheme.
On the sleds, I even remember upside down car hoods, and you remember the cars back then. A bit dangerous though.
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Old 02-17-2006, 03:57 AM   #14
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And the funny thing is today, four days later, it was sixty degrees out and I went for a motorcycle ride...put a flight in on my Alfa Sabre, too!
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Old 02-17-2006, 02:35 PM   #15
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Thanks Bill. That good, about the hoods. I remember a 40 ford hood did the trick for a half dozen kids. Snow all gone now.

Steve
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Old 02-17-2006, 07:11 PM   #16
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fantastic build thread Steve...exquisite work and great info on the R&D you're doing.

especially like to see how you went about the glassing and the bifurcated duct.

Tim
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Old 02-17-2006, 10:48 PM   #17
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Hi Tim, First the foam mold is made undersized by about 1/16". Then layeres of 2oz glass cloth are applied till the proper sizing is made. In the MiG's case, it was 7 layers. All layed up at once. Each layer is a single piece, with overlaps stagered from the flat side of the duct to the round side. I lucked out, as this proved to acheve the correct thickness. Sometimes more needs to be added.

I then used Pactra prep primer/surfacer(along with a qt of elbow grease) and got the mold perfect. Added the flange mold to capture the shroud and applied 6 coats of black lacquer. Wet sanding each coat w/400 W&D. Aluminum dowels then stuck in the ends for handeling.

The mold is given 10 coats of Meguires mold release wax #8. It is important not to let the wax dry to long before buffing. 3-4min is ample. Let it cure 5 min before recoating. I spray on 7-9 coats of Part-All #9 PVA with an airbrush. The PVA is thinned 30% for spraying. Coats must be light and allowed to dry(about 5 min in front of a fan) and level out.

The glass I use is 2oz E-glass with a grain of 1-over/2-under weave. This has more strength in the direction of the weave/grain, and is quite visable. I cut the glass in strips 4" wide and long enought to go around the circumferance of the mold. First carbon tow is layed up in the notch formed by the shroud flange. Then 1" wide 40z cloth laid over the tow and the flange mold. The tow and 1" strips end before bending around to the splitter side of the mold.

Then the 4" 2 oz cloth is added, starting at the flange and working to the intake end. Each strip overlaps 3/8". Then return to the flange end and cut one 4" strip in half and apply. This staggers the overlaps. The ducts are very strong yet light.

After curing, I apply two layers of Masking tape lengthwise down the center of the flat splitter side. This is my guide for slicing the duct loose. It is then worked till air is seen under the whole duct and then peeled loose like a banana peel. The duct is then washed of the PVA under warm running water. Then the proccess starts all over again for the other side.

The ducts are CA back togeter on the cut split. Then Rubberized CA(bl ck color) is used to join the siamesed ducts. The splitter is ground to clear the rotor and spinner and a little cleanup work is needed in the shroud flange area.

I just finished molding my 11th set of Kyosho T-33 ducts and sent them off this morning. If I get another order, I'll do a picture thread of the proccess. I made 4 sets for the RT MiG.

Steve
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Old 02-17-2006, 11:03 PM   #18
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Now that I have read how it is done, I think you undercharged me for your ducts. Excellent work Steve!!!

Justin

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Old 02-17-2006, 11:12 PM   #19
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Most of the work is in the molds, Justin. It cost about 8$ in materials to lay up a set. And about 1hr labor. If I lay up a side in the morning, It is ready to remove and do the second side that eve, The following morning it is ready for assembly. It takes about 6 hrs labor to make the mold. Not accounting cure times. And the elbow grease just went up a buck a qt...

Steve
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Old 02-17-2006, 11:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by St. Martin View Post
And the elbow grease just went up a buck a qt...

Steve
Sounds like it is some byproduct of petroleum with that spike in price. I bet it will be on the rise in the future too, like fine wine or cheese. :p

or was that my cheesy whine...

Justin

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Old 02-18-2006, 12:08 AM   #21
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Hey, hoard that wonderful Pactra Prep...I have heard Pactra Aerogloss stuff is out of production...
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Old 02-18-2006, 10:58 AM   #22
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I think I might have a little corner on the prep market. My LHS is a wholesaler and only buy's in large quantities. But..aerogloss and pactra prep are only repackaged items from the automotive industry, anyway. Aerogloss is nothing ore than acrylic lacquer(redily mixes w/ Martin Senor) and pactra prep in automotive. I really should buy it at Providence Lacquer. Cheaper by the gallon.

Steve
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Old 02-18-2006, 03:01 PM   #23
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But it could be the AUTOMOTIVE side is what is shutting down....

What is the automotive equivalent of Pactra Prep? A gallon, yep, I could use it.
Randolph dope ain't going anywhere, though...
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Old 02-18-2006, 04:37 PM   #24
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Pactra is not a mfg'r of lacquer products. They by the product in it's clear state and add stains for color. SIG does the same thing only with Randolphs. SIG uses stain. Brodak uses Randolphs w/pigments. They buy it this way and repackage it. Pigments are superior to stains. More costly too.

To my knowledge, there are not more than 5-6 lacquer mfg'rs in the entire world. And only one mfg'r of cellulose/acetate lacquers in the western hemiphere(Randolphs). I believe Randolph's has the patent rights for Butyl-Acetate.

Steve
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Old 02-18-2006, 05:03 PM   #25
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That's what I have heard, too. And that the Aerogloss pigments are automotive transparents, which is why some colors(white, for example) have such bad coverage. Sig is better. Randolph's(Brodak's) is much, much, much better all around. Night and day, coverage-wise. Mind you, SOME of the Aerogloss colors cover very well.

Do you know of a direct laquer primer equivalent to Pactra Prep? Especially in the very handy spray bombs? Even better...if it was WHITE?
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