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Old 07-30-2009, 10:48 PM   #26
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Default another Idea?

Hi Bob, thanks for the idea I tried a Horten fighter last year but it was very unstable. I still have it, maybe some mods would help. My next project is a Junkers flying wing edf, but that is some months away. I still need to finish the Arado...... and learn to airbrush camo, and add the winglets to the Blohm and Voss, and do the next step on the He 162.........all in good time,cheers, and happy flying

P.S found some old photo's of the "Komet" - far and away the best plane I have


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Old 08-01-2009, 04:44 AM   #27
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Michael, you are most welcome. I remember reading your posts on the Me-163 Komet a while back- hmm, large wing area and minimal fuselage relative to other birds. Do I see a possible wind deterrent there? I can see you are keeping busy.

"Dum spiro spero." (While I breathe, I hope).
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:09 PM   #28
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Default control surfaces

Hi Bob, I am starting to think I have too many projects at once, but I just got some drawinngs of a He 280, and that set me thinking as well........next year maybe Any way, I am going to cut the ailerons for the Arado out of balsa, and mount the servo's diectly in front with very short pushrods to reduce flex. There is enough foam to be able to bury the servo's flush in the wing. I have found that foam control surfaces are not as robust, but others seem to have success with them- I will stick to balsa for now, plus it appeals to the retro in me ..... all my planes were balsa once....... . The split elevators will require a y-connection pushrod, which I will fabricate out of hollow cf tube with threaded inserts glued to the ends. This system has worked really well in other applications, and is light and vey stiff without being so rigid thatsomething ese gives. Same for the rudder. Using coreflute for tailfeathers is becoming standard with me, although it lacks the built up look you need for true scale aircraft. I also intend to tape everything together instead of using fasteners etc. The Komet, once again, has inspired this, and every other method I have tried lacks the sheer crash survivablity. EVERYONE should have an S and B Komet R/C would be much more fun, and almost stress free......... Will get onto the finishing next post, and some more Pic's...cheers
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Old 08-02-2009, 04:19 PM   #29
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With you on the balsa ailerons Michael. The thick (2.5 inch) foam I use for wings is way too weak to be thinned down for ailerons . Soft balsa makes a simple and very effective alternative for the whole tail plane and fin as well.
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Old 08-08-2009, 12:01 AM   #30
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Default another holdup..

Hi Baz, yes the balsa alternative has been the best I have found so far, tried lots of others. Will have to put the Arado on hold for a week or so while I do some more building elsewhere. Finally got a drop in the wind enough to put some roofing iron on without going hang gliding across the paddock Getting mildly impatient; was hoping to be further ahead by now. At least the Hitec all metal geared servo's all arrived, and the rest of the hardware is now together. It will get there....... cheers for now
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Old 08-08-2009, 10:27 PM   #31
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Now that's a novel idea Michael, radio controlled wriggly tin.
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:16 AM   #32
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Default Theory of flight...

Been done before Baz... a movie called "Theory of flight" with Helena Bonham Carter. The bloke in the movie built a plane from scrap out of a junkyard, using corrugated Iron wings, with the rationale that you can do anything once. And it flew....once..... Got the roof on by the way; it seems strangely enough, to resemble a hangar. Will put some walls on today, cheers
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:01 PM   #33
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Default after a long pause...

Finally got back to this plane, after nearly two months of delays, the winter/spring change was mildy catastrophic-no power, phones and internet out, continous rain and cyclonic winds. My combat planes are quite wind- proof, but it is no good for test flights on untried scratchbuilds. Put the Arado together yesterday afternoon, and started sorting out the bugs. Never had a real twin before, and lots to learn about balancing thrust and angles. Ended up getting two ewatts 18 amp pentium esc's, as I could not programme the original ones to provide the same startup point and equal throttle response. Wired up the 2 nimh 1000mah batteries in parallel, dropped the red wire to one esc, and settle the low point for the throttles individually. So far so good; sounds great too The rear servo links need revising, as they do not worlk well enough for my liking, and I am going to to add one servo for each elevator half. Looks like a rainbow lorikeet with all the coloured tape, but the camo can wait until it works properly Put up some pics tonight and hopefully a first flight report....chers
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:25 PM   #34
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Default It flies...

Took it out mid afternnon for it's first testflight. Launched into the fairly stiff breeze ( I wiould die of old age waiting for a calm day) and climbed away on 1/2 throttle, banked left, and landed about 10 metres up a gum tree. Got it down with my wooden grappling hook, essential tool for tree landings, and tried again. Pitched up as well as banking left. Back on the ground, I replaced the twin elevator linkage with two seperate servo's and linkage apiece, and put some lead in the nose. Attempt no. 3. This time it climbed pretty straight, still with minor pitching, so a bit more lead, timmed the elevators again and relaunched it. She took to the air like a bird, so I climbed in a gentle circle to a good height and did some fine tuning of the trims. The wind was stiff enough make things a little tricky, but it seems to have no bad manners or twitches. The sound was great. 2 more flights followed, and it all looks very promising. More next post.....
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Old 11-07-2009, 12:33 AM   #35
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Default some photo's

Finally got to put some photo's up. I am going to replace the rudder and aileron servo's this weekend, and finish taping it. The digital ewatts servo was junk, but it was also free, so no complaints. The GWS servo's just wont hold their position, so I will put them on my next parkflyer, and use the Hitec amg ones Got hold of a book on the "A" model, so Luft camo col;ur scheme to follow; the bright colours help with orientation while I get used to it. The Motors only cost $12.00 aud, and The nimh batteries are leftovers from lipo upgrades. Adeqate power for testing and trimming, so it will do for now; will get plenty of flights in by the time I get around to upgrading it There is enough room in the nose for a camera, so the recon version is a definite. Everything is taped on, so it is very robust and mods and repairs are simple. Summer is looking good; now I have to work out a bomb release for it..... cheers


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Old 11-07-2009, 03:03 AM   #36
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I was thinking that the Luftwaffe could have painted their Arados that color scheme and it wouldn't have mattered because the Allies had nothing that could catch it (maybe a P-47 or Tempest in a dive) until it was landing. Looks good.

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Finally got to put some photo's up. I am going to replace the rudder and aileron servo's this weekend, and finish taping it. The digital ewatts servo was junk, but it was also free, so no complaints. The GWS servo's just wont hold their position, so I will put them on my next parkflyer, and use the Hitec amg ones Got hold of a book on the "A" model, so Luft camo col;ur scheme to follow; the bright colours help with orientation while I get used to it. The Motors only cost $12.00 aud, and The nimh batteries are leftovers from lipo upgrades. Adeqate power for testing and trimming, so it will do for now; will get plenty of flights in by the time I get around to upgrading it There is enough room in the nose for a camera, so the recon version is a definite. Everything is taped on, so it is very robust and mods and repairs are simple. Summer is looking good; now I have to work out a bomb release for it..... cheers

"Dum spiro spero." (While I breathe, I hope).
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Old 11-07-2009, 08:34 AM   #37
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Default Further testing and mods

Thanks Voyager, the lines of the Arado really appealed to me, and the real thing was fully aerobatic and made operational from the prototype. This particular choice was influenced by simplicity, the option for edf, and large enough for my fading eyesight to tell up from down. As I mentioned before in this thread, it is my first twin, and can be flown slow enough to recover from mistakes, but fast enough to be fun. The semi scale wing provides enough lift to fly on minimal power, and the smaller than scale ailerons add docility. Should be a good camera platform, and a valuable testing ground for my Me 262 and He 280. Various power options, adjustable engine pods, counter rotating props etc. All epp and coreflute make it practically indestructable as well. ....and it is so much easier to fly than my He 162....cheers
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Old 11-14-2009, 04:02 PM   #38
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Very interesting choice Michael and you weren't kidding about the size of the ailerons either! Great first filghts. If I'd landed in that tree I probably wouldn't have seen the plane until Christmas. I'll correct that, the way the wind has been blowing today I'd probably get the plane and the tree landing in my back garden!
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:34 PM   #39
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Default some hard landings....

Hi Baz, trees are a constant hazard, and I seem to end up in them all too frequently. My 10 year old punched his plane clean through one yesterday, and landed on the roof of the house. Got it down, and relaunched for another battle. The Arado also took some heavy landings; cartwheeled in a heavy crosswind, and nose first during a fast low level pass. No damage, but I have replaced the flimsy rear servo's with some stonger ones, and started work on the camera bay. I also found out that it flys on one engine- the cheap leftover motor on the starboard side broke a wire and cut out out at about 100 metres up. It remained flyable enough to bring it down in a reasonable fashion, which is reassuring. Been able to fly it most days since it was finished, so plenty of opportunity to experiment. Putting it up for another go this morning before I go to work..... cheers
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Old 11-15-2009, 04:58 PM   #40
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Wow, through a tree, into the roof and relaunched for another flight. Those building techniques of yours really must be bullet proof. If I flew one of my foamies through a tree it would just be early snow this winter but of the polystyrene variety.
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Old 11-16-2009, 12:59 AM   #41
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LOL! Barry, you are too much. Yes, same with me. I can't imagine any of my planes surviving a flight through the trees! It's the packing tape that makes the difference on Michael's planes. That stuff can take a lot of abuse. I have a little bit of it on the Cessna/Cub.

Originally Posted by baz49exe View Post
Wow, through a tree, into the roof and relaunched for another flight. Those building techniques of yours really must be bullet proof. If I flew one of my foamies through a tree it would just be early snow this winter but of the polystyrene variety.

"Dum spiro spero." (While I breathe, I hope).
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:38 PM   #42
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Default More than tape

Hi Baz and Voyager; thanks for the encouragement. As much as i would like to take credit for crash proof designs, they are really heavily influenced by the build methods and engineering ethos of a local company called S and B warbirds. All of their planes are electric, near scale ww2 fighters of epp, tape and coreflute constuction. Some have sheeted wings as well. I have gone a step further/sideways by using cf spars and ribbons, crosslaminating epp sheet, and strategic use of bi- directional tape and polycarbonate. Lots and lots of trial and error too..... swept wings and delta's, no tailfeathers and pusher mounting go a very long way in reducing stuctural damage. Added bonuses are outstanding wind ability and un- matched combat aerobatics. I still flinch evey time my sons go through trees, fences, and bounce off water tanks and each other; Years of breaking balsa and silkspan can be thanked for that. They don't have my hangups, and cheerfully mow the grass with their props and trim branches, fly between trees and fences, and do things you would never do with a PZ or alpha plane. I would never critisize anyone else's choice or style of flying; this is what works for us. The only draw back is that we get to keep the $50.00 plane and throw away the $200.00 of crushed and burnt electrics..... cheers and happy landings
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:20 PM   #43
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Hi Michael, you make a very good point. You can make a model as tough as you like but in the end if the electronics don't survive it gets very expensive. The owner of our LHS has said in my hearing that he would never fly a receiver once it had been involved in a crash. Now this could be a sales pitch but I think he really would not trust it again even if it did seem to be fine. Don't know about you but I can't afford to be that picky myself!
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:31 AM   #44
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Default the cost of flying...

Hi baz, I can't afford to replace rx's and esc's in particular, as I prefer the quality ones, and I have nearly got it sorted in that aspect. Esc by itself, halfway down the fuse, Rx under the canopy, and well ventilated/protected as I can manage. All metal geared servo's, thick wire pushrods and metal clevises have bought servo death to a minimum, and the rear mounted motor setup is also effective. Lipo's are my biggest casualty- I just can't seem to stop busting them open and /or crushing them. 3 in the last 6 weeks!!! ( read $200.00) I am way over budget now, so my efforts will be directed towards that aspect. Tried everything I can think of so far, but it is either stop the daredevil barnstorming or have plug and play combat instead of the real thing. Replied to a thread in another forum, where someone was looking at their first low wing warbird, and was considering an alpha p47. Just had to tell him how fragile alpha stuff is, but the market is swamped with flying eggshells, and lots buy planes that look so good just sitting there. It is a my biggest personal gripe that so many people end up disappointed with these things. Oh well, got an out of focus picture of the Arado flying out of my hand a couple of days back. Tried taking a video, but I am along way way from being a moviemaker...some day... cheers


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Old 11-19-2009, 01:45 AM   #45
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Michael, that is a great picture of your Arado. It looks really stable there. I am happy to say all of my LiPos are intact and working from day one. But then I don't have the wind like you and Barry have to deal with.

Bob

P.S. Is that a tennis ball flying above and behind your pride and joy?

Originally Posted by pattern14 View Post
Hi baz, I can't afford to replace rx's and esc's in particular, as I prefer the quality ones, and I have nearly got it sorted in that aspect. Esc by itself, halfway down the fuse, Rx under the canopy, and well ventilated/protected as I can manage. All metal geared servo's, thick wire pushrods and metal clevises have bought servo death to a minimum, and the rear mounted motor setup is also effective. Lipo's are my biggest casualty- I just can't seem to stop busting them open and /or crushing them. 3 in the last 6 weeks!!! ( read $200.00) I am way over budget now, so my efforts will be directed towards that aspect. Tried everything I can think of so far, but it is either stop the daredevil barnstorming or have plug and play combat instead of the real thing. Replied to a thread in another forum, where someone was looking at their first low wing warbird, and was considering an alpha p47. Just had to tell him how fragile alpha stuff is, but the market is swamped with flying eggshells, and lots buy planes that look so good just sitting there. It is a my biggest personal gripe that so many people end up disappointed with these things. Oh well, got an out of focus picture of the Arado flying out of my hand a couple of days back. Tried taking a video, but I am along way way from being a moviemaker...some day... cheers

"Dum spiro spero." (While I breathe, I hope).
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:02 PM   #46
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Michael, that's a great pic of the Arado on a fly past or was it a hand launch? just read, it was a hand launch. Either way it looks very good. What gives with the UFO just behind it? Did that show up on radar? I feel that if there is any chance of high impact damage while flying then it's better to use cheap disposable gear. I use 1-98 9g Towerpro servos in my foamies and I haven't had one strip yet but then I haven't tested them to the extent that you have. Even if they do go it's no big deal at that price. Sounds like you nred to start designing Lipo air bags now! $ 200 wow! that's alot to lose in a short time mate. I would like to make some video but with my video transfer skills it's going to be a long time coming. Keep up the barnstorming!
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Old 11-20-2009, 08:25 AM   #47
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Default Foo fighters, cameras, lipo's and counter rotation....

Hi Baz and Bob, looks like a tennis ball doesn't it ? It is actually a foo fighter, the secret German UFO phenomena that used to menace B17's near military installations. Used it as cover during take off, when the Arado was most vulnerable.Actually repaired a busted lipo in the last 2 days. Resoldered connections, repaired cell covers, and replaced balance leads. Totally nerve wracking.......wore a welders helmet, on a concrete slab, with a fire extinguisher and a bucket of sand. And it works Now I have a lot more power in the Arado, and more than enough space for the camera. The counter rotating prop idea is proving elusive. Not working as it is supposed to- I will need more thought input It flies and tracks quite well as it is, so no great hassle. Now for the bomb release..... cheers
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:47 PM   #48
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Michael, you are a brave man. I don't think I would be willing to court the fire-breathing qualities of a LiPo. But like I said, I have no LiPo injuries- my planes suffer all the damage. Last flight, my Cessna did eject the LiPo, but the connector is fairly long. So the disconnect was rapid and the plane had already mushed into the ground when the LiPo was expelled. It wasn't even scuffed.

Bob

Originally Posted by pattern14 View Post
Hi Baz and Bob, looks like a tennis ball doesn't it ? It is actually a foo fighter, the secret German UFO phenomena that used to menace B17's near military installations. Used it as cover during take off, when the Arado was most vulnerable.Actually repaired a busted lipo in the last 2 days. Resoldered connections, repaired cell covers, and replaced balance leads. Totally nerve wracking.......wore a welders helmet, on a concrete slab, with a fire extinguisher and a bucket of sand. And it works Now I have a lot more power in the Arado, and more than enough space for the camera. The counter rotating prop idea is proving elusive. Not working as it is supposed to- I will need more thought input It flies and tracks quite well as it is, so no great hassle. Now for the bomb release..... cheers

"Dum spiro spero." (While I breathe, I hope).
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Old 11-22-2009, 01:45 AM   #49
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Default one drawback....

More reckless than brave Bob.... In hindsight it wasn't worth my eyesight if it had gone bang during the cell repair, but fixing things that break is an irreistable challenge too me Actually found a drawback with the Arado- it takes forever to land it, and glides like a sailplane on the final approach. I think my airfoil selection was a little too floater like. Will fit the same scale engine nacells as the Me 262 sometime soon, as the ones I am using for flight testing have done their job. Might use them on My He 280 fighter one day. Will get on my next few projects soon as well... all the best
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Old 11-22-2009, 06:53 PM   #50
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Michael, if that is your biggest issue with your Arado, then you have none my friend! Wow, that is a nice "problem" to have. Most of my planes float pretty well. The heaviest (my P-40F) needs more throttle when landing, but I haven't flown it a whole lot. It is a little bit beyond my ability, but I havn't destroyed it, so it can't be too much of a beast! I like your planes, so your Arado might be on my "to do list" in the distant future. Barry knows I am working on a Fairchild PT-19 Cornell (when I am not repairing all three of my other flyers).

Originally Posted by pattern14 View Post
More reckless than brave Bob.... In hindsight it wasn't worth my eyesight if it had gone bang during the cell repair, but fixing things that break is an irreistable challenge too me Actually found a drawback with the Arado- it takes forever to land it, and glides like a sailplane on the final approach. I think my airfoil selection was a little too floater like. Will fit the same scale engine nacells as the Me 262 sometime soon, as the ones I am using for flight testing have done their job. Might use them on My He 280 fighter one day. Will get on my next few projects soon as well... all the best

"Dum spiro spero." (While I breathe, I hope).
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