Scratch built Arado 234 pusher

[Voyager2lcats]

Originally Posted by pattern14

The problem is simultaneous ignition for both pods, as well as not setting fire to the Arado, or myself, on handlaunch

You Tasmanian Luftwaffe pilots really love a challenge!

[baz49exe]

Micheal, I really was joking about the sidewinder thing and then I find out you are actually fitting rockets.
Come to think of it a model 163 with a rocket tube fitted would be really interesting wouldn't it?
Straight up to height via rocket power and then a gentle glide back to earth. Just like the original! Can you imagine what it would look like with the rocket noise and the smoke blasting out of the back?

[pattern14]

Originally Posted by baz49exe

Micheal, I really was joking about the sidewinder thing and then I find out you are actually fitting rockets.
Come to think of it a model 163 with a rocket tube fitted would be really interesting wouldn't it?
Straight up to height via rocket power and then a gentle glide back to earth. Just like the original! Can you imagine what it would look like with the rocket noise and the smoke blasting out of the back?

Couldn't help myself Barry. One of my sons wanted a model rocket for a school science project, so i kind of bought one that would double up as "walther" rocket assist pods for the Arado and serve as a basis for an R4M scale rocket that were carried in salvo's under the wings of the Me 262. The S&B Me 163 that I have is actually able to be flown with a rocket motor, and there is a video on their website of one. I have an aluminium tube already made up for such a purpose, but i am just a little concerned at the plane catching alight ( another problem with the original) Nothing ventured, nothing gained, so to speak............

[Bill G]

Originally Posted by pattern14

My estes Alpha 3 arrived about two weeks back, and I am currently making some rocket assist pods out of the rocket motors that came with the kit. We have had about 12 flights up to about 400 metres, and the parachute recovery method is working well. The problem is simultaneous ignition for both pods, as well as not setting fire to the Arado, or myself, on handlaunch

I had thought about adding an Estes engine to my FW225 Flitzer, and would be spared from 2 of those problems. First, there's only 1 boost engine, and second, it would be lit in flight. The idea would be to use a servo operated switch to fire the Estes solar ignitor. I doubt it would drop the batt voltage to brownout level when firing, and 3s would get it going quite well. We used to plug them into switch operated wall outlets, and watch folks turn the light switch on. They don't flare with 110VAC, they just pop.
Thinking further on however, I decided it would probably be best to not destroy a really good looking/flying EDF jet.

As for setting fire to yourself, you do have to be careful with those engines, as they burn hot. My buddy who I currently work with and I have been friends since kids. Back then, we used to unwrap the laminated cardboard skin from Estes engines, and light the inner fuel cell with a Bic lighter. He got burned a bit lighting one of the many, and we stopped using that method of igniting them. It is an expensive hobby to purposelessly waste Estes rocket engines, but we were graced with finding a forgotten shoe box full of them in a friends basement, that his dad had long since forgotten about. The "F" engines were lots of fun, when the 3 foot paper towel roll rockets actually went up straight.

[Voyager2lcats]

Check out this page: http://www.ffscale.co.uk/

But even more interesting are the rapier rocket powered free flight models(!): http://www.ffscale.co.uk/jplans.htm

Here is a rich list (with photos): http://www.ffscale.co.uk/page4d.htm

Cool stuff and very applicable to the ME-163, Arado Ar-234, and FW-225. I just wanted to share, but if any of you already know about these pages that's okay too.

Bob

[baz49exe]

I should have known you guys have either thought about or actually already built rocket powered flying bombs.
I'll bet one would look fantastic, however, the scrubland where we fly gets very dry in the summer and knowing my luck I'd probably set fire to it and burn the whole lot down

[pattern14]

Originally Posted by Bill G

I had thought about adding an Estes engine to my FW225 Flitzer, and would be spared from 2 of those problems. First, there's only 1 boost engine, and second, it would be lit in flight. The idea would be to use a servo operated switch to fire the Estes solar ignitor. I doubt it would drop the batt voltage to brownout level when firing, and 3s would get it going quite well. We used to plug them into switch operated wall outlets, and watch folks turn the light switch on. They don't flare with 110VAC, they just pop.
Thinking further on however, I decided it would probably be best to not destroy a really good looking/flying EDF jet.

As for setting fire to yourself, you do have to be careful with those engines, as they burn hot. My buddy who I currently work with and I have been friends since kids. Back then, we used to unwrap the laminated cardboard skin from Estes engines, and light the inner fuel cell with a Bic lighter. He got burned a bit lighting one of the many, and we stopped using that method of igniting them. It is an expensive hobby to purposelessly waste Estes rocket engines, but we were graced with finding a forgotten shoe box full of them in a friends basement, that his dad had long since forgotten about. The "F" engines were lots of fun, when the 3 foot paper towel roll rockets actually went up straight.

Hi Bill, sounds like you got up to similar tricks like I did. When I was 15, two mates of mine gave me their leftover jetex motors when they moved interstate, and I built a balsa and silkspan "Moon base interceptor" (from the 70's TV series "UFO") with a missile attached to the nose. I lit the fuse to launch the interceptor, and lit a longer fuse for the missile. The missile failed to detach in flight, setting fire to the interceptor, and the whole thing burned to nothing. Months of pocket money up in smoke, but looked spectacular. No hurry to do the same thing to the Arado; just have to figure out a way of doing it.

[pattern14]

Originally Posted by Voyager2lcats

Check out this page: http://www.ffscale.co.uk/

But even more interesting are the rapier rocket powered free flight models(!): http://www.ffscale.co.uk/jplans.htm

Here is a rich list (with photos): http://www.ffscale.co.uk/page4d.htm

Cool stuff and very applicable to the ME-163, Arado Ar-234, and FW-225. I just wanted to share, but if any of you already know about these pages that's okay too.

Bob

Thanks for that Bob, I thought about the rapier, but can't find them in Australia. looks really promising

[pattern14]

Originally Posted by baz49exe

I should have known you guys have either thought about or actually already built rocket powered flying bombs.
I'll bet one would look fantastic, however, the scrubland where we fly gets very dry in the summer and knowing my luck I'd probably set fire to it and burn the whole lot down

You could wait till it rains one day

[Voyager2lcats]

Originally Posted by pattern14

Thanks for that Bob, I thought about the rapier, but can't find them in Australia. looks really promising

You are most welcome Michael. I thought it was quite interesting that many of the rocket powered models were the same as you and Bill fly RC. I guess I know where you two got your start. LOL. It is a very cool web site, and I have nothing but respect for how those free flighters are able to trim their planes to fly. Fantastic.

Okay, check this out: http://www.samsmodels.com/site/image...flying.mpg.mpg

This is pretty amazing also: http://www.samsmodels.com/site/image...flying.mpg.mpg

[pattern14]

rockets aside for a minute, I tried some aerobatics at a fairly great height in about 25 knot winds. She loops, barrel rolls, and Immelmans much better than expected, but then started flying a little erratically. Suspecting I had bent a control rod or something, I brought her down to about 100 metres and realised I only had one motor workingWith the usual escort of plovers I came in more or less gracefully, with smoke coming out of one nacelle. Very reasuuring to find out it can fly in the wind with only one motor. landing with an engine out was very much the norm with luft jets, so i suppose it was bound to happen. Seems the esc had died and was still pouring smoke when I eventually disconnected the batteries. Time for a bigger pair of esc;s

[mclarkson]

Sounds exciting!

[pattern14]

Originally Posted by mclarkson

Sounds exciting!

Have a look at the S&B Me 262 thread and my attempts to learn to fly this thing... makes the Arado look like a radian

[pattern14]

after my crash into the dam a couple of weeks back (different plane, different dam), I did some more research into the Ar234 developments and found a swept wing version on the drawing board. Recycled another set of swept combat wings, recut the nacelles and, not least, experimented with a splinter camo job using tape instead of paint. Given up on paint as impractical at this stage, but the green and brown tape looks really promising at this stage. Try and post some pics tonight if I can

[pattern14]

First test flight was amazing. Not surprisingly, the swept wing totally transformed the whole aircraft, and appears to have solved all the immediate problems. It's also much faster. The aileron resonse was way too much initially, so I reduced the throws to get rid of the twitchyness. The plane handles the wind better, is much easier to throw around, and is substantially lighter. After a long year of setbacks and teething troubles, perseverence seems to have paid off. Heading off in a new direction with this one now Tried to get some pics but it is still pouring rain; maybe tomorrow.

[pattern14]

some pics of the prototype; more info next post......

[pattern14]

As you can tell from the pic's, it looks fairly well used already, with lots of crumple marks and rough edges, to say the least. These photo's were taken after several tremendous crashes, and a retrieval out of a 60 foot tree the day before. It's one tough plane. Those wings have over 3 years of combat use, and have had many repairs, including being ripped in 1/2 at least 4 times. Had four more flights on it today in much better weather. The tape camo scheme is a first -of as well, and I'll keep experimenting until I get a reasonable finish. Lots of potential yet This will be a definite work in progress.

[Bill G]

Originally Posted by pattern14

As you can tell from the pic's, it looks fairly well used already, with lots of crumple marks and rough edges, to say the least. These photo's were taken after several tremendous crashes, and a retrieval out of a 60 foot tree the day before. It's one tough plane. Those wings have over 3 years of combat use, and have had many repairs, including being ripped in 1/2 at least 4 times. Had four more flights on it today in much better weather. The tape camo scheme is a first -of as well, and I'll keep experimenting until I get a reasonable finish. Lots of potential yet This will be a definite work in progress.

If you like repairs, you could put a real glass nose on like I did.
I think I'm on number 5 or 6 now. I even went to the effort to sculpt the first 1" of the plane from the rubber foam packing that comes in the old GWS micro receiver boxes, for some real crash engineering. Works so well, that all you have to do is pull a new noseglass and reinstall, which is still a pain in the ...
Sadly, like a lot of my planes, by the time I finally got it flying really well, I was so sick of repairing things that it got put on permanent display.

[Voyager2lcats]

Originally Posted by pattern14

some pics of the prototype; more info next post......

Michael, very nice pictures. I like the swept wings- looking good. Of course, even better is the improved flight characteristics! Good job.

Bill, as usual, your models look fantastic. Keep 'em flying.

[pattern14]

Like Bob said; great looking plane there Bill Have to empathise with the crash/repair thing as well. Your plane looks O.K to start with, but successive crashes and repairs getting it to fly like you want take their toll. The Me 262 is in that category for sure now. Looked quite good for a couple of hours, then the wrinkles and crumples start. Got it totally pulled apart for some mods right now, and hope to have better than ever in the next few weeks. For now though, the swept wing Arado is just the thing. Another 3 flights on her today, doing very precise loops and lightning quick barrel rolls. Tried to tip stall her, but it wouldn't have it. Even slowed her down to stationary in the 20 knot headwind, and no stability problems. Very different to the 262, and a lot more forgiving. Looking at installing flaps next. More later

[baz49exe]

I'm really glad that the swept wing on the Arado worked out so well for you Micheal. By the sound of it the Arado has already had an interesting, charmed life. I really enjoyed the encounter with the 60ft tree part.
Fully agree with both Bob and yourself on Bill's build, it looks just great!
Keep posting Micheal, just reading about you exploits is exhausing.

[pattern14]

exhausted the possibilities of swept wings on this one over the last few weeks, with some spectacular crashes thrown in for good measure. I can't believe how tough this bird is With my drastically altered flying conditions, I'm limited to take -offs and landings in cosswinds and tailwinds between trees, water tanks and farm machinery. Actually lost sight of it again momentarily and cut the power while it must have been about 1000 metres up and just a tiny speck in a rarely clear sky. The new 2.4 radio really paid for itself, although I disconnected something in an incredible power dive and put it into a flat spin. Hit the ground some distance away, but amazingly no damage. Going to go back to the original straight wings again in the never ending quest to fly as high as possible with a camera on board. wish me luck

[pattern14]

Just when you thought this thread was over.......so many other things got in the way, that it took me forever to get back. There were so many cracks in the whole plane from all it's crash testing, that I needed to rebuild the whole fuse, using the centre section as a base. Then the scale wings were finally cut, to replace the glider like plank that it started with. The nacelles were recut and shaped as well. Still need to build some balsa wingtips, and a balsa trailing edge. Hoping to have it done in the next 3-4 weeks, ready for my annual leave, in the middle of winter........

[pattern14]

Got the shape a little closer now, with the CF spars in place, and the trailing edge balsa strips on. The nacelles are getting there as well. Keeping the weight really down on this one, as EDF will be a definite option. One step at a time.....

[Bill G]

Good to see your back on this one.
Now if you want to get even closer to scale, you can make a glass nose. Just make sure to have a mold for it, since I'm currently on #6 or so.
BTW, the numbers on the tail are upside down.