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Pusher Park Jets For all pusher jets and jet-like models.

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Old 07-16-2011, 08:58 PM   #126
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Michael, I have to second BillG on this, it is looking good. I think all of your tail and control surfaces should be made from corrugated plastic as a precaution! I think Bill is correct on the glass nose- make a master, heat form a pop bottle nose and keep the master mold at the ready once the inevitable nose contact takes place.

"Dum spiro spero." (While I breathe, I hope).
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Old 07-16-2011, 11:52 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Bill G View Post
Good to see your back on this one.
Now if you want to get even closer to scale, you can make a glass nose. Just make sure to have a mold for it, since I'm currently on #6 or so.
BTW, the numbers on the tail are upside down.
I knew I should have put that real estate sign the right way up
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Old 07-17-2011, 12:07 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Voyager2lcats View Post
Michael, I have to second BillG on this, it is looking good. I think all of your tail and control surfaces should be made from corrugated plastic as a precaution! I think Bill is correct on the glass nose- make a master, heat form a pop bottle nose and keep the master mold at the ready once the inevitable nose contact takes place.
Hey Bob and Bill, 3rd time lucky, so to speak The first one is still orbiting the globe some where I think......I followed Barry's advice with the heat gun and plastic bottle approach to canopies, and am starting to pull off some plausable ones. Not sure how well a plastic nose will stand up to things though I also managed to get hold of the last remaing GWS Me 262 nacelles from a dealer on mainland Australia, plus using my pusher nacelles from the S&B 262 as atemplate as well. I still want the EDF option with this one, even though the pusher set up leaves it for dead. The landing skids will hopefully be a practical item to keep those fragile GWS items from being hacked to pieces. On the up side, they have harvested all the potatoes and poppies now (oh no, no more free opium), and planted wheat and barley, which will be great for landing on in a few months. On the down side, you can't see the Tiger snakes until you step on them, and they have a poor attitude..............
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Old 07-17-2011, 12:52 AM   #129
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Talking

Hi Michael
Looking very good
Heres something for ya
Do enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMm-hZ7h-vE
Take care dear friend
Yours hank

"When wild the head-wind beat,Thy sovereign Will commanding, Bring them who dare to fly, To a safe landing."
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Old 07-17-2011, 07:19 AM   #130
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Great looking build Michael, I can't wait to see the flying shots! Pop bottle nose cones are almost indestructible in normal use and I guess it would make a good crumple zone in the event of a nose in!
It's so easy to mould a replacement once you've made the plug that it may well be the simplest way of repairing the nose anyway.
They might even put plastic bumpers or cars some day!! LOL
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:37 AM   #131
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Default nacelle designs

Hi Barry the idea of using plastic shrink over structures gets more appealing everyday. Tried doing a plastic bottle over a much battered Gws edf nacelle with promising results, and I am in the process of designing/building a balsa Jumo 004 one to try it on as well. Lightweight combined with strength is the goal, but practicality is the aim. It does tend to crush foam, but I am probably being too heavy handed That is for the EDF option of course, and the pusher nacelles don't have that problem. I've just finished experimenting with the pusher nacelles (again....) on the Me 262, and I seem to have struck on a good note I cut off the last 3cm of each nacelle, and cut a plywood engine mount shaped to suit. With the motor mounted on this, it was taped to the rear of the nacelle, and then the original end was then taped over this. By doing this I retain the shape of the Jumo 004, hide the outrunner motor, and have an extremely sturdy mounting system. It also brings the COG slightly forward. The original polycarbonate mounting plates at very rear were adequate for the original speed 400 brushed system, but really struggled with the brushless set up. It also means I can change motors, props etc with no engineering. Took the Me 262 ( well, the tattered remains of it) out in the blustery weather to try it out, and it all went very well. A lot less vibration with the solid mounting system as well. So this is the style of pusher nacelle I'll use on the Arado, which hopefully will get some more done to it soon..........
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:15 AM   #132
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Michael, I've just had the same problem, how to mould pop bottle covers for the foam nacelles on the Wellington and Beaufighter builds. Solved it by pressing the foam nacelles into damp sand. The impression can then be filled with plaster and the cleaned up cast can be used to mould loads of covers.
Just a thought! It might help
I really like the new pusher mounting system which hides the motor and improves the outline; great stuff!
Barry
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:16 AM   #133
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Default back again

A hearty welcome to those poor souls still following this very long winded thread After a major detour with the He 162, and finally getting my Me 262 back in the air, I have resumed work on the Arado.......Cut out the ailerons this morning, and sanded and shaped the control surfaces. This one is going to be as near scale as I can manage without compomising flight performance. The fuse is coming on very well, but I am still unhappy with the tail section; it just does not look right. Some more staring at photos' and shaping is in order. Part of the attraction is building by eye, instead of plans and templates, and is just something i have always found rewarding when it all come together. I'll be putting the electics together over the next week, and bench testing all by new years. Well, thats the plan STILL can't get photo's to load which is highly frustrating ( could not find a "frustrated " emoticon) but I'll take photo's anyway, and have them when it eventually gets sorted. Have a really great Christmas everyone, and I'll keep dragging out this saga next year
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:48 PM   #134
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Default addit...

Having to work over the christmas period means getting home wide awake at 2300, so I spent some time on the arado before bed. Finally got the tail to look like the drawings, and now the nose is just about right. Next is the wing saddle, and trying to get the incidence correct. On the real thing, the angle is very positive, which worked fine on a pioneering jet recon/ bomber with very temperamental engines (and needing rocket assist), but causes "ballooning" on a model. The previous plane had a different airfoil section, and slight incidence, and seemed to work fine, so I'll stick to just a slight positive angle. Another issue is the nacelle angle, which follows the lines of the wing. This proved disasterous on the first plane, which tried its' best to climb and stall regardless of lead in the nose. The thrust angle needs to be almost the opposite of the real thing to prevent this behaviour. The nacelles have the advantage of being along the thrust line of the whole aircraft, instead of above , like the He 162, or below, like the He 280, and Me 262. No doubt it will need some tweaking, but I suspect I'll it get fairly close to start with. Still trying for some pictures....
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:05 PM   #135
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Default very slow progress indeed.....

Another couple of months have once again gone by with little progress, mainly due to diversions with EDF;s, which have FINALLY proven successful. The HET Me 262 nacelles arrived, which seem a fairly good relative scale size for the Arado, but will be sidelined for now why the pusher version is finalised. The wing saddle was finally done; a rather fiddly affair, but ended up quite reasonable, and there is some scope for adjustment if needed. The fitting of the nacelles to the wings is proving time consuming, as they are a built up section, and not carved from a block of foam. The plane will land on these ( no undercarriage on the "A" version) in the rough paddock that serves as my flying field, and past experience has shown that they need to be very robust. The main problem is that that they need to be tough enough to handle the impacts of landing, but still be able to detach in the event of something catastrophic, to avoid any "real" damage. I have grave fears for the relatively fragile looking HET edf units............
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:19 AM   #136
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Default work in progress

just showing where I'm up to.....the nacelles are requiring a fair bit of shaping to get to where I want, but it's coming together nicely


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Old 04-10-2012, 03:57 AM   #137
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Default first mock up

No more pics just yet, but managed to put her all together to get all the angles right, and start sorting out gear placement before any final assembly. The nacelles fitted on really well, and were nice and snug against the LE/TE of the wings. The front "hooks" over the LE, and the back is flush with the balsa TE, so I can tape it on very securely, and move it laterally until I'm happy with the angle. The mounts will need to be shimmed to get the correct thrust angle, due to the tapered TE, but that is very easily done. I had some concerns about the tail being cut offset, but it all came together square, and I'll being going with no rudder this time, to cut down on weight and complexity. The previous attempts proved that rudders are some what superfluous on a handlaunched plane, as I rarely used it in flight. One of the best things about this 3rd version is the low cost. I'm struggling on a tight modelling budget this year ( my darling wife does the accounting.......). The fuse and nacelles are all made from leftover scrap EPP, and the coreflute is free from the local real estate people. The wings were $15.00 factory seconds recut to shape. After the loss of the first one ( at $600+) which used all brand new components back a few years when it was all very expensive, plus a whole block of EPP and brand new wings from a glider manufacturer. Even the radio gear cost is staggeringly cheap.....The original lost Jr 36 mhz autoscan cost $170.00, but the 2.4 rx in it now cost $11.00. The price for everything electronic has simply plummeted, although EPP still costs a bundle. Great for crashing, but no fun to lose over the horizon. I estimate another 4-6 hours worth of fitting before it's ready for its' maiden, but I can only spare a little bit of time each day, so it may be a week or two yet........cheers
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:07 AM   #138
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Looking great Michael The nacelle, wing and fuselage set up looks very good indeed. I can't wait to see the finished model and hear all about the maiden.
Fully agree with you on dispensing with rudders on a hand launched model as well. I haven't bothered with them on my first three twins either
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:57 AM   #139
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Default 3rd time lucky

Hi again Barry; I know this thread is dragging out a bit ( over 12,000 views now), so I was surprised anyone was still tuning in. Strangely enough, I'm really enthused at how well this 3rd reincarnation is going, as I suspected I might be a little over it by now. This one will be a lot "sportier" and much more scale than the previous attempts, which probably explains why it is taking so much longer. I've already started work on camera recon gear, bomb releases, landing skids, and the much dreaded Walther rocket assist, so this one (unless I lose it, drown it, set fire to it etc) will be a real work in progress. I know I've said it before, but the AR234 was conceptually and operationally the best Jet the luftwaffe had, with almost none ( comparatively) of the teething troubles and faults that plagued the others. The Me 262 got all the limelight, and few people know of the Arado, so whatever effort I make to give it some more exposure the better. My youngest son now wants a Spitfire more than ever so he can chase it around the sky, cheers....
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:34 AM   #140
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Default the shape of things to come.

If you are still with me, I actually got to the point of its' first testflight today All of a sudden, after months of doing bits and pieces, I suddenly realised she was all together enough for some actual flying!!!! I could not have asked for a better day, with the autumn sun shining and a steady 10 knot northerly. The first flight nearly ended in disaster, when the starboard aileron servo suddenly jammed on, putting her into a flat spin into the muddy paddock below. As usual, the all EPP/coreflute construction suffered no damage, but there was mud everywhere I replaced the servo, with no further trouble after that, although she seemed quite twitchy to fly. As this is the most scale attempt so far, with a totally new wing and airfoil design, I started having misgivings about angles and incidence and such, as well as having no rudder or dihedral at all. It actually turned out to be the COG was too far back, as I had carelessly assumed that my previous balance point would be Ok as a starting place. After that, she flew superbly, better than the Me262 ( no surprise there!!!), and has a brilliant glide ratio. After the first two models, this one is much faster and more responsive, and really looks the part as well. I got at least 20 minutes flying time from the 4000mah battery before I bought her down to another very muddy landing, and she comes in better again than the 262, being able to sustain a glide until nearly at walking pace. The whole flight was a huge amount of fun with loops, barrel rolls, very low passes and high speed dives, etc. Needless to say, after all that work, I'm extremely pleased with the results, and amazed I do not have to change or modify anything. Once I get the cosmetics sorted, I'll post some pics of the finished ( relatively speaking) product. After all this time, I finally have flying examples of the 4 operational luft jets and rocket, cheers
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:14 AM   #141
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Default footnote

Just before dusk, I specked her out in the 20knot+ plus winds, as a snow storm approached from the south.........I had added just a tiny bit more ballast, and the COG must have been spot on, as I glided and soared for nearly 15 minutes and landed just on dark. After losing the first one, I had no intention of tempting fate, but I just had to stretch her wings just that bit more........
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:58 AM   #142
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Default and finally, some pic's

I made surprising progress on this one of late, and finally got the camo scheme, markings, and loose ends tidied up. There was a rare break in the wild weather, and I discovered she flies beautifully in the calm as well as the rough.. I could not get the correct coloured tape I needed, so I chose the splinter camo scheme from "warpaint", a now out- of- circulation insert from a defunct British aero enthusiast magazine, dated 1987. It's from the "B" model ( the bomber, with retractable undercarriage), but It will do Trying to paint EPP and tape is a total exercise in futility, but I'm getting the hang of the Luftwaffe splinter effect using coloured tape only. The price you pay for near indestructability I suppose..........The nose was covered in chrome packing tape to simulate plexiglass, and was a complete pain the bum It does not cut like "normal" packing tape, wrinkles like a tourist on a Queensland beach, and is generally plain hard to get along with. Nonetheless, it went on, although I will need to make up the framework from thin strips of black tape at some stage. The use of a heat gun to shrink it all to a smooth finish is always mildly stressfull, but it all settled down quite well. There will be bits and pieces to add as time goes by, but right now, I'm really happy with the whole set-up. Lets see if I can hold on to this one.......cheers


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Old 05-11-2012, 02:16 PM   #143
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Michael your camo and glazing work with tape is really looking good. All we need now is the flying video!!
Can't get over the tourists on a Queensland beach. I've got this mental image of them all slowly deflating.
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Old 05-13-2012, 01:09 AM   #144
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Default epilogue

Hey Barry I have enough trouble trying to post photo's At least 5 pics did not upload, even though I resized them all the same I will try for a video one day though. It would be great to get the Arado up, with the Me 262 as escort, so who knows? Well, this thread has finally run it's course I know it's been quite drawn out, but as usual, perseverance pays off. As mentioned before, all four operational examples are now up and flying, with only some minor work and ongoing running repairs to be done. If this one comes to an untimely demise, I guess I'll just have to make another, but hopefully that won't be the case You could make a very scale example out of balsa, or maybe Hobby king will offer an EPO edf version one day, but for my style of flying and the prevailing weather, EPP, coreflute and packing tape offers the the most practical solution. The Arado AR 234, was the worlds first jet recon/bomber, and the only enemy jet aircraft to fly over the U.K undetected. It achieved more in the recon role than the rest of the luftwafffe put together, made the much vaunted Mosquito obsolete, and it was years before the rest of the world caught up. It also inflicted the first jet.v.jet damage when they bombed a field of Meteors in the closing days of WW2, as well as out running the opposition. It deserves more recognition than it got, and only one example survives today. So goes history, but for now I'll just get on with screaming around the skies, and specking her out on those sunny days. Happy flying
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:08 AM   #145
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Default while the world sleeps......

After another long break getting other things sorted, I returned to the AR234 project for the next step...Armaments. Some meddling paranoid government official decided it was too dangerous to send rocket motors to Tasmania, so it has taken this long to circumvent the problem. So now, a quick update.......The bomb release mechanism has been fitted and tried on the Dornier Do 217, and works extremely well. Lots of fun bombing Herefords in the paddock, although the bull gets a bit annoyed with the low level attacks. The bomb load was carried externally on the "B" model Arado, so I am keeping with the planes character. Once the bomb(s) are dropped, there is adequate ground clearance for the release mechanism, and with the skid fitted, should be even better. With the remote ignition developed for the smoke cannisters now finally working reliably, I attempted the rocket assist using "A" designation estes rocket motors. These have the shortest burn of only a couple of seconds, but on the first attempt only one ignited in flight, causing the plane to skew wildly. She was already flying under power when ignited, so it was saveable, but nerve wracking. I can't ignite them on launch, as the rocket on the port wing is facing directly at the bridge of my nose......BUT, the bomb release system wired up to the landing gear switch is a great success, and the rocket ignition is wired to the flaps, so as long as I don't get the switches mixed up, all will be good. The R4M rocket is finished, and now all that remains is to modify the launch rail, and wait for a wet day so I don't set fire to anything. Legally, you can't fire a projectile from a model aircraft, but it will for scale effect only, and have only a parachute in the nose, not explosives. Now to build a scale bridge at Remagen...... cheers
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