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Old 06-19-2009, 07:00 AM   #26
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Hey j4, the original F&F DID have a KF step on LE bottom. The motor stick was also inset into the foam. One of our best modelers came up w/ the mod. Just builds EZer and the CF LE adds the "Timex" touch. I'm sure interested to hear what U guys think about flying the F&F. Buzzy, too!
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:56 PM   #27
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I actually ended up just going with it on the bottom, and 1/4 oak dowel just behind. I like the idea of the cf on the le but didn't have any available. Could have done the 1/4 dowel there though. Thank you Bluebird.

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Old 06-19-2009, 05:15 PM   #28
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James,I flew a friends F&F last night for the fun of it.He had it set up using the same motor but a 3cell and a 8-6 prop. But he had uprights on his wing tips. It was insane how fast it was and how it would turn on the wing tips. Just something else to try if you feel the need for more speed.
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Old 06-19-2009, 11:15 PM   #29
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I usually end up having to run a 3S with a smaller prop when guys are flying my loaner plane, I need to pick up a few more 2S 1000mah. I'm sure I will end up trying a 3S sooner or later.

Dr Frank was talking about the winglets over in the F&F thread on RCG's. I figured I would try it with out them first then put them on and see if I can feel the difference.

I have the plane ready to go and set up in my new DX6i. I went with max throws and 70% expo on high rates and 50% throw with the same 70% expo on low rates. I will get a ruler out and measure what my throws are later.

I will be going out to the Unclub to maiden it in the morning around 7. I have to go do a little work at 9 so I can only stay for an hour or so...should be plenty of time to fly a few packs out in the F&F .

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Old 06-20-2009, 02:45 AM   #30
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Wife and kids fell asleep early this evening so I just couldn't resist the urge to go maiden the F&F. It did good. I was actually hoping for something a little more responsive but I do have it balanced nose heavy. I couldn't move the battery back because I didn't have the velcro so I will have to try it again in the morning. I will work the battery back and reduce the expo until I get what I'm looking for.

I do feel confident now that I could build one as a loaner. If you can fly an aileron plane you can fly the F&F. It goes where you point it and looks cool doing it .

I'm sure I can get a faster roll rate and more sensitivity on the elevator in the morning playing with the balance.

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Old 06-20-2009, 05:41 PM   #31
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Moved the battery back and I am satisfied with the elevator now but I still don't like the roll rate. Jack has some video I am sure he will be posting later. I have all the throw that I can mechanically get so I guess I will just have to make the ailerons bigger on the next one.

All in all though it is a great flying plane and I love the way it looks. Not to mention the bonus that it is quick and easy to put together. I definitely have a new combat plane.

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Old 06-21-2009, 12:02 AM   #32
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Thanks to Jack here is some video of my F&F. Had a little fun toward the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV2Gs...layer_embedded

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Old 06-21-2009, 03:25 AM   #33
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Jack and James very nice video.
I liked the side launches. We used to launch our Deltas that way. You can get the roll rate up with just working with the horn locations. I set mine up when in combat mode with no expo.low rate for launching and landing. High rate for combat. Slow roll for aileron and alot of elevator for tight loops seem to work for me. Some of the guys set the ailerons a couple of clicks back from where the plane snaps. We have started flying close in and sometimes 60 feet or less from the ground because with these you can because they don't seem want to drop out of the air like our WWII did. Again good video guys.
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:20 AM   #34
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I can't find the camera right now but I added control arm extension and now have all kinds of throw . Soon as the wife gets back from the grocery store I'm going to go fly a couple of packs out at the park across the road and see how she does. I'm also going to creep the CG back a little more.

In the immortal words of Harry Hogg
"loose is fast but on the edge your out of control"

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Old 06-23-2009, 02:47 AM   #35
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Default and the experiments continue

First let me explain what happened. After the first outing I was not happy with the roll rate. I had all the roll I could mechanically build in, it was still too slow. Today I made a new servo horn that gave me ridiculous control throw. At half throttle the roll rate was decent, still not what I am looking for. At wide open throttle I had no control at all .

I think the plane is too fast and the ailerons are too big for the 5 gram servo that I usually use on my WWII planes. It's the only thing I can figure out. Why else would I have no ailerons at high speed? The servo must not have enough torque to push the ailerons.

I busted it up pretty good, I will repair it and pop in a 9gr servo and see if that doesn't solve my roll rate issues.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:11 PM   #36
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I think you were a little under power on your servo like you said. Most of us use the cheapie 9 gram from HK and they seem to work. I even added a little more area to my elevator for tighter loops. But you have to add a pushrod support midways with a plastic tie to help keep it from flexing.Keep us updated. I heard the prop buss from the gws orange 9070 in your video during the dive.You won"t get that with a direct drive prop which is a little stiffer.I still like the noise because the guys will know who just cut them when I buzz by them with part of thier streamer.LOL
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:36 PM   #37
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Here is the video from last night James.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXCpP__zZpE


Okay had another issue here is the video.

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Old 06-23-2009, 03:44 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by smokejohnson View Post
I busted it up pretty good, I will repair it and pop in a 9gr servo and see if that doesn't solve my roll rate issues.
Yea, that sounds like an under powered servo.
After using the HXT 5gr. on my Indoor tensor I will never use another one again, But I have a lot of the HXT900 and have never had a problem with them. Let me know what you come up with. Your my yard stick on the F&F build. "Measure twice cut once". I want to build it right the first time.

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Old 06-26-2009, 01:41 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by surfer dude View Post
Yea, that sounds like an under powered servo.
After using the HXT 5gr. on my Indoor tensor I will never use another one again, ......
Follow your gut instinct and stay away from the 5's.

I put the F&F back together today with a 9gr on the ailerons it made all the difference in the world. I actually was only able to do a few decent rolls before I augered it in again . Was wide open in a dive and went to pull out and nothing . By the time I figured out that I should have popped in a 9gr for the elevator it was too late.

I guess I have been pushing the 5's in the WWII planes right at their limit. The F&F is definitely faster but it doesn't seem like it would be that much faster to not be able to use the same servos. Still...I will use out what I have on hand in WWII planes but I don't think I will buy anymore 5gr servos.

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Old 06-28-2009, 12:34 PM   #40
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No doubt about it now the 9's are the only way to go. I stayed up late Friday night and then woke up early Saturday to finish a new one for the combat meet. Honestly I still wouldn't mind a little more aileron but that's just me and how I like my planes to fly, there is nothing wrong with the roll rate.

Total time to build one took me a little under 3 hours.

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Old 06-28-2009, 04:09 PM   #41
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Good Morning guys. Jack, glad to see your post on our club site. I tried a new mod to the F&F to increase roll & turn rate this wknd. at NEFI. Added tip plates made from thin carbon sheet. 1 3/4" wide & length enuff to extend abt. 1/4" fore & aft of tip chord. It turns so tight threw my timing off. Will have to get used to it! (Tip plates hot glued on tip ends BTW ) Three new flyers tried it this wknd. 12 flyers overall but never more than 9 up at a time as some guys came & went. Skyhawk's great YouTube videos were taken early before everyone was there. After all he wanted to fly too! It's taken 3 full years of diligence & Buzzy's great leadership to get our level of interest. It'll come guys just 'keep the faith', have fun & don't get burned out. CUL, Lucky
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Old 07-12-2009, 03:46 PM   #42
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Bluebird can you show a pic of your mod? I was out flying a couple of rounds this morning and I still want a faster roll rate. Maybe because I have been learning to fly 3D but I like my planes to spin like a top .

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Old 07-12-2009, 04:05 PM   #43
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James did get the only streamer cut in this mornings combat round though.

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Old 07-12-2009, 04:43 PM   #44
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I just got lucky

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Old 07-12-2009, 05:47 PM   #45
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Lucky my foot that was a skill cut, coming up from behind like you did.

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Old 07-12-2009, 05:54 PM   #46
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Oh, by the way James I think I may have busted the firewall on the Radian Thursday just before you got to the field. Remeber I told you I had smacked the curb pretty hard? Probably busted it then and it just showwed up this morning. Not hard to fix, cost about $3.00 for a new firewall, online anyway. Don't know what one will cost local.

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Old 07-12-2009, 08:38 PM   #47
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Hi James,

New to this thread and don't fly combat but may remember something about those tip plates from a fun fly nitro I built some years ago....lol...yep, I'm old....

I believe it was Chuck Cunningham that put this info out in RCM when it was still going. And based on my experience with them, they do work and work well. The theory is that the plates keep the airflow on the wing and don't let some of it flow off the tip, thus increasing the flow over the outboard portion of your ailerons, and so....faster roll rates...much faster....HTH..

Don
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Old 07-18-2009, 10:05 PM   #48
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Hey James, couldn't really see in the video, do you have a lot of flex in your wing during flight? I took mine to the church across the street from my house to maiden yesterday, flew nice, but the wing flexed a lot in loops. I have a piece of 3mm carbon on the leading edge, but I am wondering if I might need to bury a spar in the middle of the wing.
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Old 07-18-2009, 10:50 PM   #49
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Mine are pretty solid, there is some flex but not much. The CF I am using is close to a 1/4 inch wide. 3mm sounds kind of thin.

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Old 07-22-2009, 11:44 PM   #50
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So after cutting 4 inches off the wing span and running dual aileron servos I finally have the roll rate I was looking for. I love it. I will try to get some pics up later.

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