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Old 08-15-2009, 05:40 AM   #1
clyde
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Default Mud Duck goes down in flames

I built a Mud Duck Sport this winter while I was recuperating from triple bypass surgery. I maidened it today. It's electric powered with an E-Flite 46, a Castle Creations 60 amp esc, and a 4500Mah lipo.
It took off in 15-20 feet and climbed out nicely to about 30 feet altitude and then I heard a strange noise. I had no control at all and it came down on a pretty steep angle. It crashed in some high weeds and by the time I got there it was in flames. The esc and receiver, and the plane itself were all burning. I blew it out before it did too much damage to the airframe. It is repairable.
I seem to think that the esc must have cooked itself on takeoff and that's why I had no control on the way down. I had a 14X7 prop on it and tested it before takeoff and there seemed to be no problem. If it had been overpropped, it should have shut itself down. I have used this esc for about 1 1/2 years on some other planes and maybe it's time was just up.
I will rebuild the Duck and it will literally rise from the ashes.
Even though it was a very short first flight, it did seem like it would be a real easy and fun plane to fly.
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Old 08-15-2009, 06:06 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by clyde View Post
I built a Mud Duck Sport this winter while I was recuperating from triple bypass surgery. I maidened it today. It's electric powered with an E-Flite 46, a Castle Creations 60 amp esc, and a 4500Mah lipo.
It took off in 15-20 feet and climbed out nicely to about 30 feet altitude and then I heard a strange noise. I had no control at all and it came down on a pretty steep angle. It crashed in some high weeds and by the time I got there it was in flames. The esc and receiver, and the plane itself were all burning. I blew it out before it did too much damage to the airframe. It is repairable.
I seem to think that the esc must have cooked itself on takeoff and that's why I had no control on the way down. I had a 14X7 prop on it and tested it before takeoff and there seemed to be no problem. If it had been overpropped, it should have shut itself down. I have used this esc for about 1 1/2 years on some other planes and maybe it's time was just up.
I will rebuild the Duck and it will literally rise from the ashes.
Even though it was a very short first flight, it did seem like it would be a real easy and fun plane to fly.
Bummer, sorry to hear about that, what size prop were you using, also you were right at the max amps for that 60 AMP ESC, go to a 80 AMP ESC next time, That will give you a AMP SafetyCushion and check your AMP draw with a Wattmeter, hope that helps, Chellie

Motor: Power 46ESC: Castle Creations Phoenix 60 (Standard settings with 12V Soft Li-Po cutoff and no brake)Prop: APC 13x8EBattery: Thunder Power PRO LITE 6000mAh 4S3P (THP60004S3PPL)Flying Weight w/Battery: 5.8 lb

AMPS ***** Volts**** Watts***** RPM
51.5 ******14.4 ******745****** 8250

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 08-15-2009, 01:59 PM   #3
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Sorry to hear about the loss.

The most valuable tool to have is a wattmeter so you will know exactly what amps and watts you are pulling.

Definitely a worthwhile investment

2012 SEFF Night Bowling Champion!
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:37 PM   #4
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Default How many cells?

Originally Posted by clyde View Post
I built a Mud Duck Sport this winter while I was recuperating from triple bypass surgery. I maidened it today. It's electric powered with an E-Flite 46, a Castle Creations 60 amp esc, and a 4500Mah lipo. .
How many cells were in your LiPo?

That's strange, CC controls are pretty reliable, I've actually run mine 10% over maximum rating with zero problems. Not recommended of course, and I've got plenty of air circulation on them.

Gone to the larger models, so I'd just replace the ESC with a higher rated unit if it goes by by That said, you can absolutely NEVER run any ESC over its maximum number of cells, or its voltage rating. Those ESC FETs have an absolute maximum voltage rating. Exceed this absolute maximum voltage on those FETs, and it can be blam, boom, smoke.
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Old 08-16-2009, 12:14 AM   #5
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I've been running this setup for about a year now in my Alpha 40 with no problems at all, except for crashing the Alpha beyond repair. I then put it in my Mud Duck expecting the same great performance as before.
I was using a 14X7 prop and a 4500Mah lipo. Don't remember how many cells.
Chellie, I have an 80Amp esc on my Telemaster that I will borrow and put on the Duck. I spent a few hours today cutting away the burnt parts of the plane and rebuilding it where needed. It should be ready to fly by Monday. Then we just have to wait for the wind to calm down. For the re-maiden flight I want there to be as little wind as possible.
Thanks everyone for your help.
Clyde
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:24 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by clyde View Post
I've been running this setup for about a year now in my Alpha 40 with no problems at all, except for crashing the Alpha beyond repair. I then put it in my Mud Duck expecting the same great performance as before.
I was using a 14X7 prop and a 4500Mah lipo. Don't remember how many cells.
Chellie, I have an 80Amp esc on my Telemaster that I will borrow and put on the Duck. I spent a few hours today cutting away the burnt parts of the plane and rebuilding it where needed. It should be ready to fly by Monday. Then we just have to wait for the wind to calm down. For the re-maiden flight I want there to be as little wind as possible.
Thanks everyone for your help.
Clyde
Hey Clyde,

I just stumbled across this thread, sorry to hear about the fire! One thing to remember with the Duck is that it has "TONS" of parasitic drag which will keep a constant load on a motor. A 4 cylinder in a Toyota Celica is going to be working a lot harder if you drop it into a Chevy pick up (about as aerodynamic as a Duck).

Prop selection is a little counter-intuitive with a Duck at face value: If, for example, the 14x7 prop was overloading the motor a 13x7 would have been a better choice than keeping the diameter and dropping the pitch... Most peopel think of the Duck as they would a Piper Cub, but it has much more drag, so it needs the static thrust from the pitch, not the diameter.

I just realized that the last post was in August... Did you ever get the Duck back in the air?

Greg
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Old 11-06-2009, 11:04 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by firemanbill View Post
Sorry to hear about the loss.

The most valuable tool to have is a wattmeter so you will know exactly what amps and watts you are pulling.

Definitely a worthwhile investment

Sorry to hear about that also, but as Fireman Bill says...Watt meter
the watt meter can be had for about the same price as a 60-80 amp ESC.
I'm lost without it...

"Phoenix Duck" I'm getting a visual for some graphics...

CC
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Old 11-08-2009, 02:25 AM   #8
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Default Not yet

I got the Duck repaired and it is ready to go. I am semi-retired now and I am busier than when when I worked full time. When I had the time to fly it was too windy and when I was working, it was dead calm. I also converted my Bird of Time to electric and purchased a Radian, so the poor Duck hung, neglected in the garage most of the summer and fall. I will make an effort to get her in the air when I return from my current business trip.
I know she will fly just fine because when the esc died she was 40 or so feet up after takeoff and steady as a rock.
I'll post the results when I finally get her up.
Clyde
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:13 PM   #9
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Default Mud Duck Manufacurer down in flames too

Oh well.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:20 AM   #10
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3 years ago...
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:41 AM   #11
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Right now no one sells mud duck. Might as well be 40 years ago when the design came out.
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:59 AM   #12
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glad your doing better than your plane
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