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Batteries & Chargers Discuss Li-P, Li-Ion, NiMh, Nicad battery technology and the chargers that juice 'em up!

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Old 08-20-2009, 07:33 PM   #1
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Default Dry lead acid battery

A friend gave me 2 small lead acid batteries from his scooter that he said didnt work anymore.I removed the caps from the top & looked inside & they appear to be dry

My dad says he thinks you can fill them back up using muriatic acid like what they use for swimming pools.
Just wondering if this is correct.Thanks RT


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Old 08-20-2009, 07:55 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
A friend gave me 2 small lead acid batteries from his scooter that he said didnt work anymore.I removed the caps from the top & looked inside & they appear to be dry

My dad says he thinks you can fill them back up using muriatic acid like what they use for swimming pools.
Just wondering if this is correct.Thanks RT
Sorry NO! Muriatic acid is Hydrocloric acid. Lead-acid batteries use Sulphuric acid.

Funny you bring this up. My dad tried this once. He was disappointed when the battery wouldn't take a charge!
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:00 PM   #3
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Thanks mustang man
Do you know can you buy sulphuric acid
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:09 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
Thanks mustang man
Do you know can you buy sulphuric acid
Very difficlt to do... buying batteries would be cheaper.

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Old 08-20-2009, 08:32 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
Thanks mustang man
Do you know can you buy sulphuric acid
I don't know off hand. The first place I would try would be a battery specialty shop. There is a Battery Source store, which specializes in a wide array of batteries including golf cards and lawn tractors, about a mile from my house I would talk to first. They might be willing to sell you a "refill" of your battery if you brought it to them. I don't know what restrictions there might be on selling the acid outright. The other problem you face is that you don't know what state the plates are in. Filling the battery with fresh acid probably won't put the battery in correct chemical balance.

If the battery you have is a couple of years old and was let run dry, probably by over charging, then it's not worth much, even with fresh acid. The same battery is available for $35 new from here. Other comparable batteries are available from many sources I'm sure.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:52 PM   #6
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IF the battery was allowed to just dry out, then you don't want to add acid to the battery.
Just the water in the acid has evaporated. You would just want to add distilled water.

If the battery is new, than it's OK to add acid.

If it was allowed to just dry out, you probably won't get much out of it even if you could bring it back to life. My suggestion would be to get a fresh one.

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Old 08-20-2009, 08:55 PM   #7
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First, fill it with distilled (not tap) water and try to charge it. Distilled water is often available in grocery or hardware stores. It used to be quite common as many houswives used it for their steam irons. The battery may not be salvageable but, when a typical wet cell gets low on fluid, you top it off with distilled water. You may also be able to get it (or even battery acid) at an automotive parts/supply store. Worth a try.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:38 AM   #8
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well I filled it with water & I put it on the charger so we'll see what happens
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:01 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
well I filled it with water & I put it on the charger so we'll see what happens
If it wont take a charge, dump out a little of the water and add some vinegar to the water, vinegar is an electrolite, that may help to bring it back, if not, the battery is to badly sulphated, and is a goner

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Old 08-21-2009, 02:14 PM   #10
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I don't think any amount of liquid is going to help.

The battery in the picture is a sealed gel cell battery, or at least it appears to be. These have no liquid in them, and aren't supposed to.
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Old 08-21-2009, 03:45 PM   #11
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Those batteries have a 2 year shelf life.

Even if they have NEVER been used (unlikely) after 2 years, they are done.
I have over 9 years professional experience in personal mobility chairs, and motorized scooters. Cheap china batteries, as well as quality USA made batteries, I have direct knowledge of.

Honestly, save your time by forgetting these dead puppies. Please recycle them properly.

SLA Batteries (Sealed Lead Acid) are not designed to be refilled. The 'filling' is actually a gel type electrolyte which allows the battery to be mounted and run at any angle.

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Old 08-21-2009, 10:58 PM   #12
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so would a new one of these make a good field battery for charging 3s2200 lipos?
are they made to be deep discharged?
Ive been using my car battery but dont want to do this anymore
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Old 08-21-2009, 11:17 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
so would a new one of these make a good field battery for charging 3s2200 lipos?
are they made to be deep discharged?
Ive been using my car battery but dont want to do this anymore
Actually no, it is not ideal. What is ideal, is you getting a new, deep cycle battery to use specifically for field charging. Although, I am sure that there are many who may not feel that is actually 'best'. Just like anything, there are a multitude of ways to accomplish the task.


One consideration is, how much electricity do you really need at the field? If you go flying with all packs charged, during a single day, how much juice do you really need? If you are really only charging 2, 3 or even 5, 3S 3300 packs then I'd just keep popping the hood of the minivan and be done with it.

Personally I charge a lot more, and just have a Optima battery that I've had for 4 years now. I charge it 2x a month or so, and just have it with me for all the power I need, or someone else may need down at the field.

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Old 08-22-2009, 12:20 AM   #14
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...
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Old 08-22-2009, 07:35 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
so would a new one of these make a good field battery for charging 3s2200 lipos?
are they made to be deep discharged?
Ive been using my car battery but dont want to do this anymore
Hi RT get yourself a portable jumper battery, you can fly all day long with it,

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...2&aq=f&oq=&aqi=


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Old 08-22-2009, 08:07 AM   #16
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here is one from Wal Mart $71.00

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...ct_id=10928425



and here is one from pepboys in Victorville

http://pepboys.shoplocal.com/pepboys...PepBoys-090809


for $14.98


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Old 08-22-2009, 09:47 AM   #17
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But most of those jump start systems have batteries of only 10-17AH in them. You'll be lucky to get more than about 4 or 5 charges of a 3S 2200mAh lipo out of most of them.

Steve
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Old 08-22-2009, 03:02 PM   #18
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What slipstick said plus, if you deep discharge any of these, you will soon ruin them. Do not discharge them below 11.9 volts under load or you will suffer some degradation and maybe complete failure. That goes for most Pb based batteries.
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Old 08-22-2009, 03:11 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by slipstick View Post
But most of those jump start systems have batteries of only 10-17AH in them. You'll be lucky to get more than about 4 or 5 charges of a 3S 2200mAh lipo out of most of them.

Steve
Originally Posted by Rodneh View Post
What slipstick said plus, if you deep discharge any of these, you will soon ruin them. Do not discharge them below 11.9 volts under load or you will suffer some degradation and maybe complete failure. That goes for most Pb based batteries.
I use a Husky Jump Starter that has 17AH capacity, and I have charged batteries during a full day at the field without any problems using my CellPro 4S, charging 3S 2200mAh packs. Only time I have encountered a problem was when using it to power two chargers at once. Otherwise, it works well for me.

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Old 08-22-2009, 03:31 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Louis View Post
Which Optima are you using?

thanks


This one.


850CCA I can charge all weekend long.





As far as those battery jumpers are concerned, my dad Hircflyer, bought one from Harbor Freight. It sucked. Brand new, and the batteries were crap (probably older than 2 years). With some NEW, USA quality batteries, it works great and he uses it for all his field power, even when he's 'passing gas'.

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Old 08-22-2009, 08:02 PM   #21
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here is a Husky jump Starter for $39.97

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...a%3DG%26um%3D1



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Old 08-22-2009, 09:59 PM   #22
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AT the risk of oversimplifying....We buy mah by the ounce and we buy storage batteries by the pound/amp hour. Ever wonder why a 15 C lipo is so much lighter than a 25 c lipo....If you pay 60 cent a lb for a storage battery ie deep cycle battery you are getting 75% of the long term service life and amp delivery compared to $.80 per lb. I bought 550 lbs of batteries...2 8d and 1 group 31 battery and they lasted 6 years. I tried to save money and replaced the exact same batteries for 325.00. After 3 years they are "tired" and in need of replacement.
same goes for jumper packs. youll get twice the reserve out of a 25 lb jumper pack as a 12 lb unit. They will charge twice as much but you are still buying available amps by the pound.
If you want to get clever, buy a good AGM battery. hook up a battery combiner (diode protected charging circuit which will charge the battery while you operate your air craft carrier but will not discharge the cars battery while topping off your LIPOS. keep it in your trunk and protect the positive terminals from inadvertant contact. In a pinch you can hook jumper cables to it to jump start your car.

just my 2 cents worth......roughly 3mah

CC
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Old 08-22-2009, 10:06 PM   #23
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It does not take a rocket scientist to be able to tell whether or not such a battery will do your job. Say it is a 17AMH battery. Just divide the current you will be drawing out of it into the capacity and you know how long it will work before a recharge. If you are drawing 2 amps and consider 80 % efficiency (probably a close approximation) you would get 17/2.2 or about 7 hours of use out of it. Now that is assuming the battery is brand new, in perfect shape, moderate temperatures and that you remembered to fully charge it before coming to the field. For small batteries and light use, yes, they work well but it will be very easy to get careless and ruin it by to deep a discharge or improper charging. I use one myself but on very small batteries and I watch the maintenance like a hawk. Many of the less expensive units do not have nearly 17AMH capacity battery either so be sure and check for that. Properly used, they can be a good thing, just be aware of the limitations.
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Old 09-26-2009, 09:44 PM   #24
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I just use a large lawn mower battery to charge at the field and have never had it run down on me even charging my 4S5000MAh batteries. It has 290 CA and cost $23.00 from my local parts house. I have been using it for 3 years now and all I ever do is put a little water in it and change it before I go flying just like my other batteries. Works for me and they are cheap.

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Old 09-27-2009, 05:07 PM   #25
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It is a matter of watt-hours. A 17 AH sealed lead acid battery has 12 X 17 = 204 watt hours.

The battery to be charged, say a 4S5000 Lipo has 14.4 X 5 = 72 watt hours. If your system is 80% effecient then you could expect to get (208 X .8)/72 = 2.26 charges (MAXIMUM)

Keep in mind that the faster you discharge a sealed lead battery the less capacity it can deliver. They are rated at the 20 hour rate. Check the manufacturers curves to see how much derating is required for higher discharge rates.

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