Slow Stick Climbing

[gregoryd]

What would cause a Slow Stick to climb. Is it Tail heavy.

[firemanbill]

probably. That is usually the most likely cause. That and an out of trim elevator.

[Rabbitcreekok]

That and not enough downthrust on the motor. However, the SS does not really have much downthrust. Does it climb on cruise power or under full power?

If it is tail heavy, it should fly with the tail down in cruise flight.

[firemanbill]

Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok

That and not enough downthrust on the motor.

True Jim but the stick is pretty well set by the mount provided. Unless of course you are not using the mount that came with it.

[JRBeaman]

Originally Posted by firemanbill

True Jim but the stick is pretty well set by the mount provided. Unless of course you are not using the mount that came with it.

I set my motor under the stick, not above and find it flies much better.

Also, check your Center of Gravity (CG) and be sure it is between 3.5" and 3.9" (100mm) behind the leading edge of the main wing. Over 4 inches back will make it fly crummy. (Read the manual on CG. Very important.)

With the battery in front of the wing, you can still trim it out and it will fly more stable.
With the battery under the wing, you shorten the plane, and it does tighter loops.

Try and hang your stuff under the stick, not on top, and it is also more stable.

Then trim it out in the air, at about half throttle so it flies lever and straight. Then bring it back and adjust the COG 'till all controls are flat at half throttle for level flight.

A little piece of tape on the stick in front, and behind the wing mounts will keep it
in the same place on rough landings.

That is MY recommendation.

It's a great plane.
Enjoy!

[gregoryd]

Thanks for the tips. I have rebalanced and checked everything again, added weight to the nose. the tail drops and I have to use full down to get it back to earth. Any more Ideas would help.

[JRBeaman]

Originally Posted by gregoryd

Thanks for the tips. I have rebalanced and checked everything again, added weight to the nose. the tail drops and I have to use full down to get it back to earth. Any more Ideas would help.

When you fly a Slow Stick, it should stay up 'till battery runs dead with all transmitter
sticks in the middle, with no adjustments and no trim. (This assumes little or no wind).

The rods on the control horns and servo horns should be set the same distance from
the pivot points at both ends, and always at 90 degrees from the rod with sticks centered.

All components should be as far forward as you can without stacking them. Hang the
components under the stick, and wires on the top and in this order from the front:
The Motor, ESC, Battery, then radio under wing. (will allow wing farther forward for good CG.)
I use velcro (never doublesided tape) on all my components AND rubber bands. It adds
a bit of vibration isolation as well as non-skidding under the rubber bands.

Rubber band loose wires to the stick. Keep wires away from ESC so it can breathe.

Minimum of 4 rubber bands on the main wing. Two in a cross pattern, two straight
forward/back. They should be really snug.

1. Remove all extra weights.
2. Move main wing back so that CG is 3.6" from leading edge. - (3.6" is a starting point!)
3. Turn on your transmitter, then plane radio.
4. Set all controls at mid stick on transmitter, all centered, no trim at all.
5. Turn off plane radio, (and unplug the battery), then the Transmitter.
6. Do NOT allow servo shafts to move at all. If they move, redo #3, #4 and #5.
7. Mechanically change all tail controls to be flat by adjusting pushrod length.
8. Check and adjust the CG again, ONLY BY MOVING THE WING!

This is the beginning/starting point for all new planes. (IMHO)

From now on, you will NOT be CG balancing to a measurement, but on how it flies!

Make the changes on the plane itself for now. NOT on the transmitter.
If it noses down, move wing forward, if tail drops, move it back.
Then try again, and keep doing it 'till it flies level with all sticks centered, and no trim.

If you move/change any components or add/remove any, you MUST retest and
change your wing placement for it to fly flat with all sticks centered again!

Then mark the wing where the CG actually works for that configuration.
This will NOT be a measured place, but a 'tested for what works' place.

Once you get your personal CG set, MARK IT! - Be sure there is a bit of room there. This
will allow you to add a camera on the CG spot, pointed forward and slightly down, to get
the best shots. That is why 'battery in front' is better, and the plane is not as 'twitchy'.
And, you won't have to readjust your CG very much for it. - BUT ALWAYS RECHECK IT!

If CG is not between 2.5"-4.0" when you get done fly-testing, then something is seriously wrong.

Before EVERY flight Always:

1. Verify the CG is where you marked it on the wing for that configuration of stuff.
2. Check Battery charge/condition, for both transmitter and plane. ALWAYS!
- ALWAYS turn transmitter on First, and off Last. Very Important!
3. Verify controls are going in the right direction to stick movement.
4. Verify centered stick always equals centered control surfaces.
5. Verify everyone is watching you do this to notice how professional you are.

Always check flat-flying with all controls centered before doing the fun stuff.
If it is not right, bring it back in immediately and move the wing appropriately.

There is no reason for a well trimmed Slow Stick to be anything but beautiful and
very easy to fly on it's very first launch. Takeoffs should require minimal stick.

Remember gradual takeoff and climb slope, gradual on the stick too. Slow is good.

Use full throttle rarely, mostly 1/3 to 2/3 stick. Full throttle on a 3s LiPo will cook the
motor if used for more than about 20 seconds at a time. (that's longer than you think)
On a 2s LiPo, you will need to use a bit more throttle, and I don't think the stock motor
(brushed) can be hurt even at full throttle for longer times. But, save full throttle for
takeoffs and stunts. Your battery will last longer as well as your flight time.

You should only use about 1/2 of any direction in stick travel at the most for normal flying.
Slow, easy and gradual movements are all that are required and you will have a graceful flight.
The other half of the control movement is for stunts. Stay up at least 300-500 feet for now.

The Slow Stick should never make any sudden movements unless you command them.
(or just blame the wind-gust gods to save face when necessary)

Graceful is the Slow Stick!

Let me know how it works out....
Send pic of side view showing placement, and I'll comment.
-John

[Rabbitcreekok]

Good job on the information, John.

[Gofer303]

JR that is the info I was looking for also excellent post now if it works all I have to change is the stock 300 set up until I can get some $$$ up to go brushless!

[JRBeaman]

Originally Posted by Gofer303

JR that is the info I was looking for also excellent post now if it works all I have to change is the stock 300 set up until I can get some $$$ up to go brushless!

Play with it for a while, get your landings to be routine.

Then.....

Brushless is NOT that expensive if you shop around.

The only thing that the Slow Stick needs, is a bit more power,
and a bit more battery life. Other than that, it does exactly what
it was designed for. It is very inexpensive, and very easy to fly.

It does not seem to like playing lawndarts like all my other planes.

Assuming you are not trying to make a dragster out of a VW bug,
this is what I suggest. If you want that, then buy a different plane,
or get a second SS for fun and games. You can always rely on your
minimally modified SS for a great day of flying.

I represent no company or product line.
Please note that (hobbyking and hobbycity are the same.)

This is what I found to be the most cost effective:

Suggested upgrades:

Motor/esc/prop combo deal: $14.95
Motor: BM2410-9T ESC: 18A-25A Prop: 1047
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=4706

Motor mount for this motor to SS: $2.00
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=3613

That is less than $20 to upgrade your SS to brushless!

Save your old motor/mount/ESC for a scratchbuilt big wing...

Use a 2S1P 2200 20C LiPo for reasonable flying. (1/2 hour or better) $12.79
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6540

Or the: 3S1P 2200 20C LiPo for $16.99 For a bit of extra fun.
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6306

Just remember to keep the stick off full power all the time. With mostly
easy flying (1/3 to 1/2 throttle) and only an occasional burst, you can
get upwards of 45 min in the air per flight with the 3S battery!

I recommend Zippy batteries, and learn how to use them properly
(another subject) There are a few brands that use them under the skin.
Look for it, ask around. They are very cost effective. Heck I paid $23
for a 1600 NMHI from radioshack, and the LiPos are cheaper, and you
get far more kick and total energy from these LiPos to boot.


AND DON'T FORGET TO READJUST YOUR CG!

Next you 'could' add ailerons...

There are a lot of threads to look at on the subject, but I have
one recommendation and that is to use full-strip ailerons, and not
the cut-out as embossed on the wing, as notches provide stress
points to be easily broken. Just add a 1" wide 1/8" thick strip of
balsa wood to each wing, and mount the servo in the middle of the
dehedral brace with a pushrod to each elevator horn. Remember
everything at 90 degrees at the attachment with sticks centered.

Easy, cheap. Worx.

Stiffen up your tail wheel with a bit of 18GA wire insulation about 4" long.
Strip the wire out of it. Stiffen up your main gear with a similar insulation.
You may also want to bend the front gear forward about 5-10 degrees.
That helps fewer nose-overs. Some suggest getting another front wing
mount and putting it up next to the motor. Interesting. Would help save
your prop more often as well.

Beyond that, you can get another wing and make a bipe out of it...

But, I didn't like the fact that my 'relaxation flyer' would become a hot rod.
I recommend you keep the SS with the motor/battery upgrade, and leave
the rest for another plane, designed to do the other stuff.

Share your fun with your kids, or friends. Make a family picnic of your day.
Let others take the stick for a few moments, they will love you for it.

That is how I am going to spend 10 days in California with my kids and
grandkids... Flying Slow Sticks eatin hot dogs, and enjoying the hell out of
my short visit to this realm, every chance I can get.

ENJOY!

[idealhobbies]

JR, you just earned 3 "Thanks" for those posts. That has got to be the most detailed and informative postings I have seen on the Slow Stick in one place. Thank you very much.

I'm currently equiping mine with a Nikon Coolpix camera and I believe that you just helped me figure out a problem that I've been having with mine.

Outstanding post!

[JRBeaman]

Originally Posted by idealhobbies

JR, you just earned 3 "Thanks" for those posts. That has got to be the most detailed and informative postings I have seen on the Slow Stick in one place. Thank you very much.

I'm currently equiping mine with a Nikon Coolpix camera and I believe that you just helped me figure out a problem that I've been having with mine.

Outstanding post!

Hey, if it aint a gas, why bother?
It's called 'passion'.
Without it, you're wasting your time here.

Thanks back at ya.

[gregoryd]

Ok I have everything on the bottom. I have the balance at 100mm it will not balance at this point. Everything is at the front of the plane. I am using a plane balance machine so I'm at a loss.

[idealhobbies]

Move the wing forward or back until you get the balance.

[gregoryd]

I finally got it in the air and it's flying had to add weight to the nose. I didn't think about it before but I had to rebuild the tail part's. The foam I used may be heavier than stock.

[JRBeaman]

Originally Posted by gregoryd

Ok I have everything on the bottom. I have the balance at 100mm it will not balance at this point. Everything is at the front of the plane. I am using a plane balance machine so I'm at a loss.

Maybe you are having a problem with using the machine.

Slow Sticks are not that delicate, just use your fingers.

There is no way that you can't balance it at 100mm, which, by the way,
is the wrong place as discussed above many times as a starting point
for flight testing anyway. Try 3.6" (91mm) to start as mentioned above..

Originally Posted by gregoryd

I finally got it in the air and it's flying had to add weight to the nose. I didn't think about it before but I had to rebuild the tail part's. The foam I used may be heavier than stock.

Go back and re-read my post (#7) on 09-08-2009, 07:13 PM

Did you move the wing back so that the CG is about 3.6" (91mm) yet?
100mm is wing-too-far-forward as a starting point on the wing for the
CG on a Slow Stick. It will drag its tail. Move the wing back an inch.

You need to move the main wing back toward the tail.

If you have to add weight, then you are doing something wrong.

Take off the weight and keep moving the main wing back until the
CG is at about 3.6" (91mm) from the leading edge of the main wing.

Then test it for flat flying as above.

Unless you made the tail out of stone, it should be easily balanced.

Did you glue the wing supports to the stick?
If so, then you can't move the wing.

You should NEVER glue the wing supports to the SS, EVER!

Upload a picture of it so we can see what is wrong.

[Azarr]

I've always felt that the slow stick needed down and right thrust, but it's not easily done with the stock motor mount. I'm using the Radical RC motor mount which is adjustable for both right and down thrust.

I've turned mine into a hot rod, but even stock, about 3-4deg down and 2 deg right thrust makes a different plane out of it.

As JRBeaman said, you shouldn't have to add weight. Mark the distance from the leading edge on the wing, and using either a CG machine or fingers, slide the fuselage back and forth until it balances.

Don't try this if you're a low time pilot. For the more experienced, I keep moving mine back and haven't found the rearward spot yet. Right now I'm at 4.5" from the L. E.

Azarr

[Azarr]

Oops, double post

Azarr

[weffy]

Howdy,
Here's my setup...works great.

Slowstick with a TowerPro BM2409-12T Motor

[JRBeaman]

Originally Posted by weffy

Howdy,
Here's my setup...works great.

Slowstick with a TowerPro BM2409-12T Motor

Awesome. Looks like about a 10mph headwind taking off, and landing.
You can almost hover with a SS in 10mph.
Nice
Thanks.

[JRBeaman]

Originally Posted by Azarr

I've always felt that the slow stick needed down and right thrust, but it's not easily done with the stock motor mount. I'm using the Radical RC motor mount which is adjustable for both right and down thrust.

I've turned mine into a hot rod, but even stock, about 3-4deg down and 2 deg right thrust makes a different plane out of it.

As JRBeaman said, you shouldn't have to add weight. Mark the distance from the leading edge on the wing, and using either a CG machine or fingers, slide the fuselage back and forth until it balances.

Don't try this if you're a low time pilot. For the more experienced, I keep moving mine back and haven't found the rearward spot yet. Right now I'm at 4.5" from the L. E.

Azarr

I would expect your thrust angle is from the wings being slightly warped.
I haven't seen much difference in anything being 1/8" off.

Got enough dehedral? lol.

I suspect our friend had glued his wing mounts. If so, he will have to move the
battery way forward to get it from being tail heavy. I have seen people mount
their lipos sideways to get them far enough forward for balance. Heck it works.

If you are at 4.5" then you are definately tail heavy. But hey, some like it that way.
More experienced flyers can play 3D with a SS and more than 4" from LE CG.
In any case, it's fun to try different setups.

ENJOY!

[gregoryd]

Originally Posted by weffy

Howdy,
Here's my setup...works great.

Slowstick with a TowerPro BM2409-12T Motor

It looks like your tail dropped on take off.

[Azarr]

Originally Posted by JRBeaman

I would expect your thrust angle is from the wings being slightly warped.
I haven't seen much difference in anything being 1/8" off.

No, the down thrust stops the tendency for the slow stick to climb when throttle is added, which can bee seen in the video posted above. With the added downthrust, adding throttle does nothing except make it go faster.

Got enough dehedral? lol.

Only 55 deg . Not the first time it's been done. It's based on a competition fun fly design out of KY a few years ago called the Pro Trainer. It rolls like it had ailerons and extremely fast.


If you are at 4.5" then you are definately tail heavy. But hey, some like it that way.
More experienced flyers can play 3D with a SS and more than 4" from LE CG.

Absolutely, it will hover in it's current configuration.
In any case, it's fun to try different setups.

Most Definitely

ENJOY!

Azarr

[JRBeaman]

Originally Posted by Azarr

Azarr

How much downthrust?
Also, any left or right angle needed?

I am using the Motor: BM2410-9T but instead 0f the 1047 prop, I am using
a 1206 and it has a much better response to that motor. Using a 3s 2200
Lipo, and I can fly quite long at full throttle. The motor, though warm, can
be held immediately after landing, unlike a brushless 400 wich you could fry
eggs on. Pretty much the same performance, exept snappier response and
longer battery life.

The right prop makes a huge difference. Oh and I'm using the
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=3613
motor mount, which does not lend itself to changing the thrust angle.

And I have the prop all the way back on the shaft, as it seems to bend
easy. Only one nut on the end to hold the prop in place instead of a nut
on each end of the prop. Big difference on noise, vibration, etc. I think
it will be much harder to bend the skinny little non-standard shaft.