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Old 12-10-2009, 01:47 PM   #1
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Default Guillows B-17 Flying Fortress Conversion

I'm happy to post my B-17 build, it's going to be a slow build but I promise it will be finished. I was inspired to build the B-17 after meeting up with an old friend this year, a B-17 tail gunner that was shot down on his 4th mission http://www.447bg.com/Hoyer%20Crew.htm he was one of my high school teachers and 10 years later we few together from time to time in his Cessna and now in his RV-6A.
Got started yesterday, read all the directions and made sure all parts were there (i think). I like the "cut apart plans", on my last kit I hurt my back after leaning over the table one day for a long period of time.
The directions start you off building the fuselage.


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Old 12-11-2009, 12:38 AM   #2
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Default Similar thinking

I have had one of those kits sitting in my basement for about 15 years, finally decided to get started on it about two moths ago. Going OK, the major frames are done to the point that I am starting to work on the wire routes and control pull arms roughed in before I get to many spars in place to work around. Am trying to build it as a four motor using Heads Up 2712-17 x 4 spinning GWS 5x 3 3 blade props, ailerons, elevator and rudder. It has been a while since I have done a kit and this will be the first I have tried to do motors on so will see how all that works out, hoping to have it done for our local show here in early March

Good luck with yours , I look forward to following your thread


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Old 12-11-2009, 01:21 PM   #3
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dumo01, please post your progress here if you want. I could use all the info that I can. Thanks for posting your motor and prop info, I have not decided on that at this time. I'm concerned that this model could end up being a fast fly'er, I hope not.
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:25 PM   #4
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OT about attached photo's.

I can't see the photo's that we have attached? This has been going on for a few months on this site and I have not been able to fix this problem, any ideas?
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Old 12-11-2009, 03:30 PM   #5
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Regarding attaching photos . If your pictures are large files the up-load will time out.

THE B-2 Worlds most expensive airplane.
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Old 12-11-2009, 04:57 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jpan View Post
guillows, hmmmmmm..in the free flight modeling world, we generally replace ALL the kit wood, it could save you 50% of the overall weight if you do
I may have to look at different options
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Old 12-11-2009, 04:58 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Alpea42 View Post
Regarding attaching photos . If your pictures are large files the up-load will time out.
I can't see the attached photos on post #1 and 2.
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Old 12-11-2009, 05:51 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jpan View Post
guillows, hmmmmmm..in the free flight modeling world, we generally replace ALL the kit wood, it could save you 50% of the overall weight if you do
stock too hard and too heavy? i got that from building one of their hellcats.

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Old 12-12-2009, 12:56 AM   #9
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The weight seems to be a common theme on some of the other Guillows threads I have seen. The few other threads I have seen on building the B17 mostly have not completed the plane but all tried to find ways to reduce the weight by drilling out some of the ribs etc where they could. Estimated AUW on the planes I have seen threads on have ranged from low 20 ounces to 40 ounces. So far I am guessing mine at mid to upper 20s but will keep an eye on it as the build comes forward.

For me so far the toughest part of the build so far a has been re-thinking the directions. it was not intended to be an RC airplane so I have had to rethink what to do when and when I need to break from the directions to accommodate the RC needs and control surfaces.Maybe not so much of an issue for someone with more experience.

Park is the picture issue just with WattFlyer or all webstes? If all websites does you browser have an option to disable automatic image load? ( Firefox Tools/ options / content I think IE must have something similar)
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:52 AM   #10
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Agreed. This may end as more of a display piece than a flyer. Can always use the electronics on another plane.
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:32 PM   #11
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Got the picture problem fix ! I can see now !
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:18 AM   #12
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Yeah, the radio will help, as will a VERY light finish. It is unfortunate that Guillows "balsa" is more suited to repairing the back fence, but some of it is usable in high-strength areas. Expect the glide to be exhilarating just the same.

I'm convinced that the Brit kits, using the infamous Solarbo balsa, were purposefully larger so that the wood weight was less noticeable, Veron and Keil 16" span models excepted...

I have an EasyBuilt 30" Lancaster kit that I am toying with, again a "display" model, not meant to fly; doesn't mean that I won't try, though, even if I have to go to RTP!
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Old 12-15-2009, 01:25 PM   #13
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dumo01,

Did you use the optional method of gluing 1/16" balsa strips to the shoulderless formers to help with alinment while gluing them to the other half's? I'm a pretty good "eye baller" I not sure I need to do this?
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:40 PM   #14
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I know this won't be appreciated, but why not try and build the Guillows kits with depron or FFF? I'll bet they would fly very nicely. I may just give it a try. I saw the little P-40 kit at Hobby Lobby craft for $6.00.

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Old 12-15-2009, 07:52 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Voyager2lcats View Post
I know this won't be appreciated, but why not try and build the Guillows kits with depron or FFF? I'll bet they would fly very nicely. I may just give it a try. I saw the little P-40 kit at Hobby Lobby craft for $6.00.
Well I'm going to embarrass myself, what and how do you build with depron or FFF? I think its foam? If so that's a great idea I just really enjoy building with balsa.
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:12 PM   #16
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I am gonna sound like a hater, but balsa generally flys better...

just don't hurt me to much kitty...

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Old 12-15-2009, 08:12 PM   #17
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Depron and FFF are foam correct. Depron is Extruded poly styrene. you can get it in 1mm,2mm,3mm,5mm etc up to 10mm thinkness.

I've been seriously considering rebuilding my guillows 170 but using 1mm depron for all the formers. I think it would work very well.

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Old 12-15-2009, 09:42 PM   #18
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Subscribed...

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Old 12-15-2009, 10:38 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by park View Post
dumo01,

Did you use the optional method of gluing 1/16" balsa strips to the shoulderless formers to help with alinment while gluing them to the other half's? I'm a pretty good "eye baller" I not sure I need to do this?
Park

I did do that, it just seemed easier to me to have the braces there to help keep things lined up while the glue dried. Didn't really take long do it and I used the smallest amount of glue I could just on the tip so that I could remove them afterward. They aren't needed after the glue sets and just take up space and add weight. I just know if I did not do it, I would start looking around while waiting for the glue and end up with some really strange angles.

I would also give thought to breaking with the assembly instructions in a couple spots. I built the big parts of the fuse first but stopped on it until I had the wings and tail feathers done so I could see where I need to do additional work to add control runs, battery trays etc before all those spars get in the way. Curretnly working on a couple addional braces to make it easier to add an access hatch on the top to get to battery and electronics. I am planning the hatch from B5 to B9. My original plan was to put the ESC for each engine in each nacelle but I read in the WFlyer power section to avoid increasing wire length between battery and ESC so am putting all 4 ESC in the fuse and need more working room in the hatch. My concern with this setup however is the amount of heat being produced inside the fuse without enough ventilation. May try to figure out a vent system that does not look too bad.

I have not done much work scratch building with foam, only a small kit, but thus far I agree with you, I enjoy doing the balsa work
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:17 PM   #20
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Been reading along and figured I would chime in with my support. It would be really cool to see it fly.

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Old 12-16-2009, 03:19 AM   #21
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:51 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by dumo01 View Post
Park

I did do that, it just seemed easier to me to have the braces there to help keep things lined up while the glue dried. Didn't really take long do it and I used the smallest amount of glue I could just on the tip so that I could remove them afterward. They aren't needed after the glue sets and just take up space and add weight. I just know if I did not do it, I would start looking around while waiting for the glue and end up with some really strange angles.

I would also give thought to breaking with the assembly instructions in a couple spots. I built the big parts of the fuse first but stopped on it until I had the wings and tail feathers done so I could see where I need to do additional work to add control runs, battery trays etc before all those spars get in the way. Curretnly working on a couple addional braces to make it easier to add an access hatch on the top to get to battery and electronics. I am planning the hatch from B5 to B9. My original plan was to put the ESC for each engine in each nacelle but I read in the WFlyer power section to avoid increasing wire length between battery and ESC so am putting all 4 ESC in the fuse and need more working room in the hatch. My concern with this setup however is the amount of heat being produced inside the fuse without enough ventilation. May try to figure out a vent system that does not look too bad.

I have not done much work scratch building with foam, only a small kit, but thus far I agree with you, I enjoy doing the balsa work

Thanks for the input on your hatch location great idea. I've got to have the RX in the radio room for sure!

About the cooling of the ESC's just open the bomb bay doors just kidding. I built an fly a MM P-38 with two CC 9 amp ESC's located in each boom with no air flow and they don't even get warm, the motors only draw 4.5 amp though. What ESC's are you thinking about using and how many amps can the 2712's draw?

I did a little building this afternoon and used the alignment sticks after given it a secound thought.

dumo01 I'm so glade you jumped into this thread this is going to be fun !
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Old 12-17-2009, 01:59 AM   #23
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I am using Heads Up 20 ESC, which I really think will be over kill, but I have not decided for sure if I want to go 2S or 3 S for the battery, which, depending on the prop I use, had some potential to push the current close to what a 10 A ESC would be happy dealing with. I had planned on using the GWS 6030 three blade props but am putting that off until I get the wings, nacelles and motors pretty much done and can really measure the clearance I have. The instructions talked about using a 6 " prop, but when I tried to measure the clearance on the plans, I did not think there was room for a six inch prop to clear the fuse. If I end up dropping to the 5x3 x 3 blade the I will be way overdone on the ESC, even using the 3S battery. I am guessing the current draw on each motor between 6 and 8 amps for a total draw around 24-32, depending on how all this works out.

Where do you put the ESC on the P38? I have not quite given up on the idea of putting each ESC in each nacelle. Would allow a cleaner wire install to run the power from the battery as well as making it a lot easier to be able to adjust the battery position to adjust balance. I plan to run all four motors off of one battery, so I think that will push me towards the 3S, at least an 1800 mAH 18C, and I would prefer to use one of my 2200, 25 C batteries. I am planning to get the battery as far up in the nose as I can, under the cockpit, but having to put all 4 ESC in the fuse will make that pretty tight getting the batteries out between flights.

Thanks for setting up the thread and allow me to post on it. Been fun, hope yours is going well.
I got the hatch braces done and the guide for the elevator arm roughed in last night. I need to give up and make a final decision about how to do the rudder control tonight and get started on it. My original plan was to glue a wire into the lower leading edge of the rudder and extend it down into the fuse. The control arm would be concealed inside the fuse and I think there is enough room there to do that, but it would be a complicated assembly. I think I would have to skin and assemble the stabilizers, rudder and elevator, do the control arm inside the fuse, and then skin at least that small section of the fuse after all that is done. You can see on the pictures where I have added some balsa on either side of the top spar under the joint between the rudder and the vertical stab. My plan is to drill down through that spar and the center spar of the horizontal stab to bring the wire down into the fuse and mount the control arm on the wire.
The alternative would be to run the push arm for the rudder outside the fuse above the elevator and just glue a control horn directly onto the rudder surface. Easier to do, but the first idea would look better.
Are you far enough along to be able to see what I am talking about?
Any thoughts on how to do this better from you or anyone else would be great


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Old 12-17-2009, 02:48 PM   #24
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You are ahead of my build and I probaby will not catch up!

"I need to give up and make a final decision about how to do the rudder control tonight and get started on it. My original plan was to glue a wire into the lower leading edge of the rudder and extend it down into the fuse. The control arm would be concealed inside the fuse and I think there is enough room there to do that, but it would be a complicated assembly. I think I would have to skin and assemble the stabilizers, rudder and elevator, do the control arm inside the fuse, and then skin at least that small section of the fuse after all that is done. You can see on the pictures where I have added some balsa on either side of the top spar under the joint between the rudder and the vertical stab. My plan is to drill down through that spar and the center spar of the horizontal stab to bring the wire down into the fuse and mount the control arm on the wire.
The alternative would be to run the push arm for the rudder outside the fuse above the elevator and just glue a control horn directly onto the rudder surface. Easier to do, but the first idea would look better.
Are you far enough along to be able to see what I am talking about?
Any thoughts on how to do this better from you or anyone else would be great"

I was day dreaming out that yesterday. I want a steerable tail wheel that will be connected to the rudder. But I wont be able to design it till it's in my hands. The MM P-38 uses piano wire as the control cable running in a plastic tude and it works great. I think I follow you on your internal control horn, that will look nice but you cant check it on preflight to see if anything is coming loose, what kind of control horn would you use?

Also I'm going to try the same config for the ailerons. one servo controlling both. Here's a picture of the right boom of the 38, the ESC is in the boom and servo for both ailerons is located there also.





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Old 12-17-2009, 03:16 PM   #25
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Spitfire, no hurting here. I always smile to myself when someone says "balsa flys better!" Where is the proof in that comment? There is none. Now that being said, balsa is great, but foam is SO available in great (read: cheap) quantities that it is foolish not to use it. Back to our regularly scheduled Guillows B-17 thread.

Originally Posted by spitfire View Post
I am gonna sound like a hater, but balsa generally flys better...

just don't hurt me to much kitty...

SPIT.

"Dum spiro spero." (While I breathe, I hope).
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