B-47 1/10.2th Scale, Boeing Stratojet...In The Beginning

[Hircflyer]

Originally Posted by Flite-Metal

Per the flight training manual T. O. No. 1B-47(D)(Y)E-1 for the B-47. Its proven to have been an excellent investment. I acquired it
from an Italian documentation source of all places. Its been a fabulous resource with respect to detailed cockpit and instrumentation
photos in addition to system definitions and use.

Unlike the 1:1 we will not use castering outrigger struts/wheels on our 10.2%.

WoW! I stand corrected...guess memory isn't as good as I thought. OH Well can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday either.

[Flite-Metal]

We've had inquiries relative to flaps, their composition, and movement. These are the most complicated and mechanical challenges
on the entire airframe. Everything else is easy compared to this.

To help you understand the complexity of the wing components I will share with you "THE" only flap resource which exists outside
of the B-47 assembly guide and B-47 maintenance manuals. In the world of technical drawings this is not one : ) However in the
world of construction resources....it is what it is..."it".

Hopefully when Thomas returns from the B-47 reunion in Omaha he will have the names of individuals with garages and basements
full of assembly or maintenance manuals providing a rear view from below. If you are familiar with the Grumman A6 flap hangers its
more or less what I see as our flap solution because it is cantilevered from the rear spar as is the B-47. However it has fewer parts
with less to go wrong... : )

Its not as if we don't have some IPMS examples... The drive mechanism on the IPMS example is wrong because the builder
used the telescoptic drive of the P-3 Orion....not the B-47's screw jack.... ? When I approached him with where did you get
the documentation to support your flap I received a series of P-3 1:1 photos. To say more would be rude.........................

[Flite-Metal]

Note: B-47E horiz stab has more arc across its bottom than top to remain aerodynamically neutral.

Note: The above drawing will change as I work through the Final Reop. Check back here for revisions often...

[Flite-Metal]

D' Nu Flaps R Acom'n : http://004edc4.netsolhost.com/B47/47...pFlapAniNu.gif (click link if image does not appeear)

[Don Sims]

Got this email from Ray. Flight, if you want his email address, let me know and I'll hook you up!

I was a Crew Chief on the RB47E and later the B47E.
I noticed a comment on the JATO, the B47 & RB47 was not referred to as JATO (Jet Assist. Take Off). We always referred to ATO (Assist Take Off).
Also, a fully loaded B47E could take off without ATO however we would use approx. 10,000 feet of runway, gross weight 230,000 Lbs. The ATO rack was primarly used on the Alert Aircraft. My base also had RB47H & K models. The public is not aware of the importance of the B47 programs. Especially the RB models.
I would be interested in working on this project.
Thank you,
Ray Adams

[Flite-Metal]

Hi Don,

Tell him to come on in and share his experiences. I'm looking for an assembly or maintenance manual illustration of the flaps so we
can move on and button that item up.

For an enlarged image of the above photo showing details of the RATO bottles as well as valuable disclosure of the flap showing "inward"
path of the flaps and their distance from the fuselage side when in their full down position...
click: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/atta...0&d=1285419530

I will be using the ATO/RATO cradle on my B-47E-IV for Browie Points, eye candy, etc with respect to the first pass performing my
fly-by. The 1:1's dropped their ATO cradle in a safe zone just beyond the runway then they were somehow recycled/salvaged.

I have always wondered what was left of these cradles after falling as far as they fell from the departing B-47's I have found no reference
to parachutes being used. I imagine they had to be squared up considering the minimum arc frame bottles were bolted to.

The smoke cartridges I am using can be cosmetically altered with little effort to look the part of the RATO canisters...aka rocket motors.

Here's a closer look. I have more within my documentation but I'm off creating a dims matrix for the BAC drawing so everyone who
is building along can finally arrive up on how long, high, wide, and deep...

[Flite-Metal]

When I read JTO comments I am reminded of the mis-information associated with the late 40's through the late 50's..."Duck & Cover" is
a vivid memory for me.

http://www.archive.org/details/DuckandC1951

Duck & Cover exercises were conducted at my grade school. One of the reasons I have been so interested in LABS
maneuvers is they were real for me...when the air raid sirens blared during simulated LABS attacks that occurred over my hometown. You
are probably aware of Omaha at the center of an ICBM bullseye from the mid-60's through 80's...I lived in the center of another bullseye...
from 1947 (birth of the B-47 & myself) through the early 60's...Kingsport, TN.

George Eastman (Kodak) needed alcohol and cellulose for his photographic film so he acquired a huge lumber mill and distillery located on
the banks of the Holston River in East Tennessee in the 30's and it rapidly grew into a huge chemical plant manufacturing synthetic fiber,
plastics, and many things beyond the imagination of residents in my hometown, Kingsport, TN. Below is an early 40's photo of Tenness
Eastman Company (TEC) Eastman's facility after they "moved" the Holston River 1/4 mile to the South (left). My father was employeed
by TEC for 44 years.

Eastman Chemical Company is the complex's current name after being split from Eastman Kodak when it was known as Tennessee Eastman
Kodak Company (TEC) in Kingsport, TN. This five mile long one mile wide complex is located along the shore of the Holston River. Tennessee
Eastman Kodak was the operator of the Oak Ridge Weapons Development Center below Knoxville which needs no introduction to readers...
That will introduce you to why the B-47's and B-52's ran practice bombing runs on my hometown...a strategic target at the time.

On the S/W end of the Eastman facility was an Eastman owned explosives manufacturing facility known as Holston Defense (HDC) Area A.
That facility manufactured half the volatile components comprising "Composition C" and other HE. These were pumped seven miles S/W
around the end of Bays Mountain to HDC Area B where an equally large chemical/ordanace facility combined chemicals with that pumped
from Area A to form compounds utilized in everything that goes boom. Photo below shows Area B with huge HE storage in the NW side of
Bays Mountain.

Click to view enlarged image... http://cryptome.org/eyeball/ammo/holston-tn-001.jpg My wife's homestead is along side 11W directly below
the W in West Ridge in the photo above...directly across from an HDC rail security gate. Paulette's dad was a production supervisor at HDC
from the 40's through the late 60's when he was forced to retire after suffering acid burns to his torso while rescuing a collapsed worker at
a tank off-load station...

HDC Area B viewed from Bays Mtn. looking North. Carter's Valley & SWVA mnts in background.

Kingsport, TN sits at the foot of the Shenandoah Valley and was a LABS bombing mission practice site for the USAF.

These bombing runs began above Washington, DC and worked South to Kingsport, TN. Interstate Hwy 81 follows the exact route
that runs down the Shenandoah Valley to where it ends in Bristol, TN/VA. Kingsport is one of the three cities known as the Tri-Cities
comprised of Bristol, Johnson City, and Kingsport.

You can easily envision the mission plan for the bombers as they worked their way down the valley with the multiple munitions
facilities within it... Kingsport being at the foot of the valley. Oak Ridge was S/W of Kingsport by another 120 miles.

If I were home and not at school I would go to our front porch and await the arrival of B-47's and later B-52's approaching from NE
flying below radar down the Shenandoah Valley. Within five minutes of the air raid sirens blaring, to my right and climbing at a steep
angle the B-47 roared up and over the mountain ridges North of Kingsport...over Carter's Valley (Johnny & June Carter Cash land...:^)
and Gates City, Va. as it completed its half roll. I knew of it only as bombing run training...not by its LABS name until this project.

I have waited a long time to build this...

You're from Kingsport if you know what this is? Translate this...OWATAGOSIAM...Bob lives forever...:^)

[Flite-Metal]

This index (subject to audit) will grow daily until airframe is sized: Last Post 9/28/2010. (click thumbnail to view enlarged)

[Flite-Metal]

I will post some images below and you should be able to see where I have been and what I have been doing for something like forty six
hours thus far.... Anyone care to speculate on what I have been doing and "why". I guarrantee you I did not think I would be doing this
at this point.

Maybe this will help explain:

Take a "closer" look...

Good morning George... ;^)

[Flite-Metal]

Pay no attention to canopy frame errors contained in the above drawing unless you are making your own canopy from scratch. If
you are using the recommended windshield (yet to be disclosed) and the canopy, (previously specified) you have no canopy issue.

Yes, there is a .50 degree error in the square of all the Boeing drawings. *"All" editing of the Boeing provided drawings for purpose
of building my model have a .50 degree correction. The graphics editor I chose to utilize in this thread is one which does not have
1/2 (.50) degree rotation capabilities....Microsoft Image Composer©.

Microsoft Image Composer© is an editor most of you already have within your Microsoft Office© suite or available from Microsoft©
with minimum impact on your pocket...$. I remind you of my thread premise... : ) It serves no purpose for me to use or introduce
any utility or tools to this thread that anyone on planet earth could not acquire inexpensively and learn quickly.

Microsoft Image Composer© is the easiest graphics editor to use with many attributes surpassing those of others. If a tutorial is
desired I will provide a short example requiring no more than two or three minutes of your time to master obscurely documented tasks.
While many graphics editors exist, and Microsoft© has other fine products, remember the premise to enable anyone to scratch build a
scale (whatever size you desire) Boeing B-47E Stratojet.

Boeing...Boeing...Boeing...

Boeing©, Disney©, and Microsoft© names and artwork are the possession of their respective corporations utilized here for educational purposes.

[Flite-Metal]

Things back here in the rear are much much better... : )

[Flite-Metal]

Though this appears to be a bit off from the above...these are components above the water line which when associated will be
trued to the rudder post that is locked into our built up horiz. stab.

[Flite-Metal]

MSGT Thomas Kaye reported in this evening after returning from the Omaha,NE B-47 Assn Reunion. Tom left a voce mail filled with
excitement describing finding a maintenance person from Wright-Patterson with the T.O. records and illustrations for the flaps. It
reminded me of a year ago when I first began to match up images with written descriptions in the B-47's Pilot and Crew manuals.

Tom sounded like a kid at Halloween returning home with a full Jack "O" Lantern bucket...ready to pour it all out on the floor so it
could be reviewed, reconciled and validated. Thanks to Dave P's, Thomas Kaye's, Jim Diamond's, and many others...everything is
beginning to fall into place.

You can imagine Tom's excitement and genuine sense of accomplishment....mission accomplished ;^)

Many thanks to MSGT. Kaye!

[Flite-Metal]

It takes hours guys....between SEC football and NASCAR qualifying we move forward

[Flite-Metal]

[Flite-Metal]

I found a validation photo the inboard and outboard aileron sections are a single structure.

Interesting how these things don't get photgraphed often enough.. Interesting the boost tab is inboard of the outboard engine.
Would imagine the outboard end would be a cleaner flow... Glad we answered this question!

[Flite-Metal]

I found this online at WeMoTec's site. With some creative knife work and putty this could provide you a 10th scale alternative
to the Tamiya built up pilots at a compariable cost.

[ExtremeRC]

What size fans are you looking to use in this beast? I noticed you imposing the stumax 110mm fan onto the photos at the beginning...

[Flite-Metal]

Dynamax...nacelle showing outrigger retract mounted to bottom rear of pylon blade.

[ExtremeRC]

Ahh ok, so 90mm fans in every duct wasnt going to be a better option? Would look and sound better

I have been running the dynamax rotors in our new housings, with our large can inrunner I am seeing 25,500rpm at around 87-90 amps on 12 cells, about the same rpm as everyone else seems to be getting at just under the average amp draw. I believe our new fan will be over 100 grams lighter though, just waiting on final figures.

[Flite-Metal]

Mark,

Obviously this begs for specific answers... :^)

Q1: What is the shroud diameter at the front and rear?
A:

Q2: What is the length of the shroud?
A:

Q3: What stator are you using? Cut down Dynamax or your own?
A:

Q4: If stators are your own, are they straight or helix?
A:

Q5: What is the motor mount/hub composition?
A:

Q6: If aluminum, is it machine fluted for best heat sink of motor?
A:

Q7: How is motor attached to the hub/mount?
A:

Q8: Is spinner dome shaped to the blade root, pointed with slope to root, or pointed with straight sides to root?
A:

Q9: What is 12S thrust in # or N @ what capacity?
A:

Q10: What is the FSA?
A:

Q11: What is the fan/motor/battery AUW?
A:

Q12: How long can the thrust (Q9 12S thrust in # or N @ X capacity) be sustained?
A:

Q13: Is the fan with motor mounted by attached flange? If flange…affixed to shroud by what means?
A:

Q14: Please describe the stator attachment to aluminum shroud.
A:

Below is an illustration of the original "bird house" pylon mount edited to show two fans within the pylon instead of a single bifurcated Dynamax.



Obviously, there are advantages to this if the thrust is available and capacity to sustain it. The Dynamax
with the LS motor or its replacement with 10k capacity is sustainable for at least 10 minutes.

My weight constraints are explicit to F4C and I anticipate 26# to 27# less batteries. That can be achieved
with the original diameter Dynamax.

[Flite-Metal]

Mark....

Answers?

[Flite-Metal]

Back channel reply from Mark claimed the following:

With 12S this set up is said to provide just under 5kg static thrust from an ARC3675 @ 85~90 amps. This presents an interesting
alternative if it proves to be capable of delivering this thrust for our required amount of time...this as a pair in our inboard nacelles.

A YouTube video of this set up powering a 10# jet for X amount of time would be welcome... ;^) Anyone know of such a set up?

[Flite-Metal]

Relax...it turned out our two B-47's stood little to gain...except battery count, conduit issues...and of course weight. Considerng
our target weight and maintaining an easily managed system are "the" remaining issues...we continue with two Dynamax. Onward
and upward! However, you have to remember nothing is lost by investigating alternatives during your scratch building process.

[Flite-Metal]

After a brief detour considering Mark's(ExtremeRC http://www.extremerc.com.au ) suggestion four or six of his 90mm aluminum shrouded EDF
were a superior power solution than the pair of 120mm Dynamax, I thought I should confirm our what, where, and how decision.



Note the generous "mounting area" within pylon and removable blade onto which power system components are mounted. Component laser cut-outs will be shown shortly.