Excellent tutorial on electric motors for Newbies

[rvham]

I have been flying electrics for about a year and a half, lurching this forum for several months and searching for a substantive tutorial on electric power systems so that I could better understand the great information posted in this forum. I recently found it at www.adamone.rchomepage.com. Go to that website, click on Beginners Guide, then on Electrics. Previously I bought several books on electrics including "Electric Motor Handbook" by Robert J. Boucher but these were either too basic or too theoretical. If any of you know of any other sites like this, I am sure that we newbies would appreciate it.

[AEAJR]

This link takes you directly to the beginners guide so you don't have to navigate the advertisement.

http://www.adamone.rchomepage.com/guide.htm

[TNflier]

If you only want to get to the section on electric motors, below is the direct URL to use. Unfortunately, this was apparently written when outrunners were new as it barely talks about them.

http://www.adamone.rchomepage.com/guide5.htm

[azkeith]

Thank You guys, very good explaination of electric motor theory.
Keith

[lefty1944]

I am new to RC as well as a beginner with electrics! Need ALL positve suggestions I can get before I spend lots of money on equipment and still don't know what I am doing and get frustrated before actually flying!

lefty1944@mfire.com

[ragbag]

Originally Posted by rvham

I have been flying electrics for about a year and a half, lurching this forum for several months and searching for a substantive tutorial on electric power systems so that I could better understand the great information posted in this forum. I recently found it at www.adamone.rchomepage.com. Go to that website, click on Beginners Guide, then on Electrics. Previously I bought several books on electrics including "Electric Motor Handbook" by Robert J. Boucher but these were either too basic or too theoretical. If any of you know of any other sites like this, I am sure that we newbies would appreciate it.

Excellent tutorial on electric motors for Newbies


I am not a newby, but I never refuse the opportunity to further my knowledge.
I think you have discovered a "gold" mine of information that backsup some of the things that I say, but can't put in the right text,like this question. Why break in a brush motor? answer:

Quote"Usually it's necessary to "break-in" a new brushed motor so that the flat brushes get a curved surface and thus increasing the contact area with the commutator.
Running a motor with new flat brushes at full load will cause a lot of arcing,
which pits the contact surfaces and degrades performance. End quote"

I like his explanation. And he has so much more to offer.

I will print this and read it in the privacy of my own bedroom.

Thanks for the lead. I have saved it all on my hard drive to be used as needed.


.

[bgchip]

Hi I am new to electrics. I scratchbuild my planes. It doesn't seem that electrics lend themselves to scratchbuilt. They seem to be only for RTF. I do not care for the plastic foam models that are passed off as model airplanes. Where can I get a guide for electrics? My LazyBee is about 4 lbs. Has a wingspan of 50 inch. and about 700 sg. in. Thank you

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by bgchip

Hi I am new to electrics. I scratchbuild my planes. It doesn't seem that electrics lend themselves to scratchbuilt. They seem to be only for RTF. I do not care for the plastic foam models that are passed off as model airplanes. Where can I get a guide for electrics? My LazyBee is about 4 lbs. Has a wingspan of 50 inch. and about 700 sg. in. Thank you

Uh, NO.

Electrics are very easy to install on just about any model airplane, including "scratchbuilt" models. That Hacker motor shown below just bolts to a flat firewall on your model with the four corner mounting plate shown. This motor can be mounted in either of two ways, one with the shaft forward, with a prop adapter on the shaft. The second way is with the rotating "Bell" of the motor forward, with the prop bolted to the rotating bell. Parts for both mounting types is included. Pick the one that works for your model.

You don't have vibration to worry about, fuel to get into the model, on your carpet, the list goes on.

And, any quality electric power system can easily match the performance of an appropriate glow engine in your model.

A good number for electric power is about 100 watts per pound of airplane, that represents about 400 watts or so. There are a LOT of very good motors available out there, and a few that are not so good.

Wattflyer readers know that I like the $$$$ Hacker series of motors. None have ever given me a problem over many hundreds of flights. I've got 8 of them, from the A30 to two of the 3000 watt A60's.

The Hacker A30 series of motors would be a good start for your Lazy Bee. Their A40 series might be a little bit to big. Among the many ESC's out there, the Castle Creations units are pretty good. One of those computer programs such as www.motocalc.com will be a very big help in your selection of power systems.

Take a look:
https://www.aero-model.com/8_66_879/...-12L%20V2.html
https://www.aero-model.com/8_66_881/...12XL%20V2.html

And, some other articles on Electric power:

Thread on 70 size glow engine conversion to electric
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45222

Hacker 6S2P A123 powered Models
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44686

Hangar 9 Kantana Model
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68844

AEAJR's Site on Electric Power
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18521

[JetPlaneFlyer]

bgchip,
Electric power can be used on virtually any type of flying model. Electric is equally well suited to scratch builds as it is to RTF models. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise?.

IMHO Electric runs into limitations on the really big stuff (like 1/4 scale and larger) but on smaller to medium size models like yours it is probably easier to implement than i.c. power.

[bgchip]

Thanks for the information. It is just that there are so many to choose
from. With nitro it was cu.in. displacement and that was it, different
brands etc. Most "help" I have received is so tech, and involved that its
hard to decide. Finally someone just recommended the motor, esc, etc., the
whole thing.

[JetPlaneFlyer]

Originally Posted by bgchip

Most "help" I have received is so tech, and involved that its
hard to decide. Finally someone just recommended the motor, esc, etc., the
whole thing.

Start a thread, give us all the information, including the sort of performance you are looking for and how much you have to spend and I'm sure you will get some good recommendations.

electrics can be a bit confusing at first as there seem to be so many variables and choices but it's really not so bad once you get a feel for it.

[hayofstacks]

Check out heads up and look at their recommened setups.

Www.Headsuprc.com

Come back here with any questions.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer

IMHO Electric runs into limitations on the really big stuff (like 1/4 scale and larger) but on smaller to medium size models like yours it is probably easier to implement than i.c. power.

Yeah, I've got two giant scale 2500-3000 watt models. Outside of the $$$$ cost for the motor/ESC/battery, you also need something to field charge it with. Problem is with those 120 Amp deep cycle batteries, they are only good for two or three field charges on these giant models. And, per my experience, even at that, those $80 120 amp deep cycle batteries only last one year or less.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by bgchip

Thanks for the information. It is just that there are so many to choose
from. With nitro it was cu.in. displacement and that was it, different
brands etc. Most "help" I have received is so tech, and involved that its
hard to decide. Finally someone just recommended the motor, esc, etc., the
whole thing.

Yeah, those glow engines required a specific range of propellers. Put one on to small, the engine would over rev, and damage something. Put one on way to big, the engine will overheat.

Much different with electric power. Put one on to small, the motor will simply run at its maximum speed, without enough thrust to taxi on concrete. Put one on to big, and you let the magic smoke out of the motor.

As others have indicated, if you provide the wingspan, wing area, and weight of the model with the radio/servos, but NOT including the battery/motor/ESC, I can run the numbers through www.motocalc.com, and see what shows up.

As indicated previously, I'd be suggesting a Hacker motor that will cost about $70 or so. A lot of the cheap China imports can be purchased for $20 or $30. Some work very well, some don't. You get what you pay for.

It's not hard to put together an electric model that will pull your model straight up, out of sight. So, we also need to know what type of performance you are after.

[ripacheco]

Originally Posted by bgchip

Hi I am new to electrics. I scratchbuild my planes. It doesn't seem that electrics lend themselves to scratchbuilt. They seem to be only for RTF. I do not care for the plastic foam models that are passed off as model airplanes. Where can I get a guide for electrics? My LazyBee is about 4 lbs. Has a wingspan of 50 inch. and about 700 sg. in. Thank you

You can get plans/kits for electrics as well. I'm a scratch builder too although I just ordered my first ARF. (I'm returning to the hobbie after 20 years)
One difficult thing to do is to figure out the proper motor for a given airplane. Message me I'll share my findings.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by ripacheco

You can get plans/kits for electrics as well. I'm a scratch builder too although I just ordered my first ARF. (I'm returning to the hobbie after 20 years)
One difficult thing to do is to figure out the proper motor for a given airplane. Message me I'll share my findings.

What mfg, model type, size/weight model is your ARF? A lot of other folks have likely all ready flown your ARF with electric power. And, they'd likely contribute their findings.

After 20 years, these electric power systems are several orders of magnitude better than what was available back then. My first electric model used a motor I rewound from work. It managed to get a 100 inch wingspan sailplane up to about 200 feet on one battery charge. The power systems now available would haul that sailplane straight up to several thousand feet.

[bgchip]

Hi I have this Lazy Bee that I built from plans. It has a 50 inch wingspan, and about 700 sq. in. I would like to fly it with an electric motor but I am having a hard time matching an electric motor to it. I have questions about what size motor I need, the esc, will any esc do? and the battery. There are so many choices. I have bought a Hacker A-30, but now I need the esc and battery and prop. I've flown nitro since the 70's and built well over 30 planes. I was out of the hobby for awhile but I am now getting back into it with my 10 year old grandson, who already flies better than I do.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by bgchip

Hi I have this Lazy Bee that I built from plans. It has a 50 inch wingspan, and about 700 sq. in. I would like to fly it with an electric motor but I am having a hard time matching an electric motor to it. I have questions about what size motor I need, the esc, will any esc do? and the battery. There are so many choices. I have bought a Hacker A-30, but now I need the esc and battery and prop. I've flown nitro since the 70's and built well over 30 planes. I was out of the hobby for awhile but I am now getting back into it with my 10 year old grandson, who already flies better than I do.

Which Hacker A30 motor did you buy? From that we can run the numbers and see what's what.

[bgchip]

Wow! Thanks for the help! The plane is the Clancy Lazy Bee. You can purchase the plans on line from Clancy Aviation. It is of balsa and ply construction. Covered with monokote. It has a 50 in. wingspan. 14 inch cord, about 700 sq. in. wing area. Ellipitical wing tips. I built it with ailerons, 4 ch. But have also constructed a wing without ailerons, same sq. in area, 3 ch. Weight is about 3.5 lbs. I want it to fly a reasonable speed, no 3D. able to do some acrobatics, loop, roll, etc., 35 to 50 mph. It is for my 10 year old grandson who does very well but still is a beginner. The motor I bought is Hacker HA30-12L.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by bgchip

Wow! Thanks for the help! The plane is the Clancy Lazy Bee. You can purchase the plans on line from Clancy Aviation. It is of balsa and ply construction. Covered with monokote. It has a 50 in. wingspan. 14 inch cord, about 700 sq. in. wing area. Ellipitical wing tips. I built it with ailerons, 4 ch. But have also constructed a wing without ailerons, same sq. in area, 3 ch. Weight is about 3.5 lbs. I want it to fly a reasonable speed, no 3D. able to do some acrobatics, loop, roll, etc., 35 to 50 mph. It is for my 10 year old grandson who does very well but still is a beginner. The motor I bought is Hacker HA30-12L.

That Hacker motor is a quality unit. I've run the numbers through www.motocalc.com. A good starting point is a four cell LiPo battery rated at about 3500 Milliampere Hours. The prop would be an APC-E (Electric) 10-5. The Castle Creations ESC would be their 50 Amp ICE series. The ICE series is a little pricey, other mfg might be considered.

This gives a total weight of 75 ounces, wing loading of 15.5 ounces per square foot, and 92 watts per pound. Pretty good values for a reasonably slow flying model.

Motocalc indicates the rate of climb will be around 1300 feet per minute, again good numbers. The motor will be pulling about 37 Amps and 500 watts at full power, good numbers. This will give you about 5 minutes of flying time per charge, assuming running at full power all the time. You won't have to with this setup.

Take a look at the attached screen dump of the motocalc software.

Hope this helps!

DennyV

(PS, we have a club member who is now flying 30 cc gasser models, and is doing very well doing all sorts of acrobatics with his several models. He just turned 12 years old!)