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Old 08-24-2010, 07:15 AM   #1
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Talking Doppler For Dummies, Like Me

Hi Everyone What i would like to do here, is compile a, How to Do Doppler Speed Run Information, and Invite those that have been able to successfully Do Doppler readings, Share their Knowlage with the rest of us, So we can Learn to do our own speed runs, and take the Mystery out of it, I know I am a little Comp. Challanged, but i learn fast I just need to be shown the ropes as the say, and Take Good Notes Ok With that being said, i am going to be working on this How To Doppler Thread, If anyone has any Helpful Information to add, Please do, as I will be Learning Right along side the rest of you Take Care, Chellie

P S Bare or Bear with me here for a little while info is being added

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Old 08-24-2010, 07:19 AM   #2
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Default Doppler Down Load

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ght=waveoscope English Translation

http://www.sprut.de/electronic/soft/scope.htm#download German translation

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Old 08-24-2010, 07:21 AM   #3
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Default

Some tips on dopplar readings and speed runs

The software can be downloaded here:

http://www.sprut.de/electronic/soft/scope.htm#download

There is also a user guide. Its in german, but you can still figure it out pretty easily from the pictures

How to get good doplar readings

You dont need a seperate michrophone to record sound from the video. Just start Windows Sound Recorder and record the audio as the video is playing on your laptop in a seperate window. Thats how I do it

This is all assuming you are using a windows based machine. If its a Mac you'll have to come up with something similar on your own. I dont do Mac's

I use a program called Windows Sound Recorder (comes with all windows machines as far as I know) to capture the sound portion of the video in real time as it plays on the computer.

On my machine its under All Programs/Accessories/Entertainment for some silly reason.

1)Start the Sound Recorder program - but dont push the "Record" buttom yet.

2) go to YouTube or where ever and start the video playing. You can also start it playing on your machine if its already downloaded.

You dont need to download it first unless it wont play at full speed while your on-line. It must be playing at normal speed tho to get a good reading.

3)as the video plays, keep Sound Recorder on top and use the Record and Stop buttons to record the section of the video you want to test as it plays.

4)You can use Sound recorder Edit tools to cut out sections of the recorded sound file if you need to. You only need 5 to 8 seconds of recording depending on the quality and how good the pass is.

5)Then save the sound file using the "Save As" comand. When you click on "Save As" you will see a buttom at the bottom of the pop up window labeled "Format". Change the format to 8 bit, 8khz, mono. That seems to work best. Then save the file as a WAV file.

6) Start the dopplar program, load your saved sound file and go to town

How to make a good speed run - flying for best dopplar readings

Idealy, make one run in each direction so we can average out the wind factor. Make the runs early in the flight while the pack is still fresh.

Make each run level and straight and try to pass as close to the camera as possible with no climbing, diving or turning befor, durring or imediately after the pass.

Oh - and dont change the throttle setting untill your well past either.

A nice level run startring about 2 or 3 seconds before and after you pass the camera is enough. Longer is better but not necesary.

Durring those 4 to 6 seconds you need to be flying level and straight and at full power the entire way. DO NOT CHANGE THROTTLE SETTINGS, do not climb, do not dive, do not turn.

I think that pretty well covers it, but feel free to ask questions

Larry

Some great Info from Wattflyer Larry3215

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Old 08-24-2010, 07:27 AM   #4
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Default Doppler Speed Run Tips

Remember - try to fly as close to the camera person as they will tollerate without ducking

The perfect run would be right thru the camera, but thats not really necessary and its hard on the camera person

TheDon did some math on it and flying a good ways off to one side only costs a few % in error.

Straight and level and no turns and no throttle changes is probably most important.

Try to get an equal run distance before and after the closest approach to the camera too.

The dopplar works by comparing the frequency shift as the plane flys towards the camer and then away from it. So just flying around up in the air or in circles does no good.

You must fly towards the camera then away from it to get a good recording of the change in frequency. Its that change that does it.

Larry

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Old 08-24-2010, 07:52 AM   #5
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Default

Question
By the way... how do you use waveosscope?


Answer
It's very simple. You see part of the chart on WAVEosSCOPE that is kinda s shaped. left click on the left part of the vertical of the "S" then right click on the right vertical.


I should also add, that if you are using Windows XP and Movie maker 2, you can set the file size, and make it as small as you want. It says the resolution while you are choosing the size to take the guess work out of it.


I use Goldwave to convert to WAV files


info from RCG http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=471457

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Old 08-24-2010, 08:05 AM   #6
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Hi Everyone, I entered some basic information here to get your feet wet, I am going to look for a video on You Tube for some how to Do Doppler info also, I learn easier with Audio Visual and Hands on training, than trying to read something and then go do it Take care, Chellie

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Old 08-24-2010, 08:12 AM   #7
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Default Measuring the speed of a Rc Plane 3 ways


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Old 08-24-2010, 05:16 PM   #8
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For those that don't like the Windows recorder. Audacity is free.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Also some tips:
1) Don't record when multiple planes are flying. I might work but likely will not give good or usable results.

2) Like Chillie (not a typo) said, long, straight passes. Throttle on the longer the better. Just firewall it the whole time.

3) Don't forget to record the temperature. Although this only seems to make a difference of 1-2 mph.

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Old 08-25-2010, 12:41 AM   #9
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Thanks Chellie....been wondering how this was done. Will be following along with you....
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Old 08-25-2010, 11:10 AM   #10
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Default Doppler How to Video From, Rc Foam Fighters

This video helps to explain a lot about the doppler program, Thanks to Rc Foam Fighters.


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Old 08-25-2010, 11:32 AM   #11
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Default Sample Fly by Wave and Wavo-o-scope down Load

http://www.skyhighhobby.com/doppler-...asurement.html


Hi Everyone, here is a sample fly by audio and Wave-o-scope Down load, so you can do some hands on Training with the doppler program, enjoy.

Many Thanks to SkyHighHobby.

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Old 08-28-2010, 09:07 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
You dont need a seperate michrophone to record sound from the video. Just start Windows Sound Recorder and record the audio as the video is playing on your laptop in a seperate window. Thats how I do it
Chellie -- I tried this, and it does not work for me. Any ideas?

I use a Gateway laptop, with Windows Vista.

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Old 08-28-2010, 09:27 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Lieutenant Loughead View Post
Chellie -- I tried this, and it does not work for me. Any ideas?

I use a Gateway laptop, with Windows Vista.
Hi, I will ask Larry3215 how he did it, this info i got from Larry. Sent PM

[QUOTE] I use a program called Windows Sound Recorder (comes with all windows machines as far as I know) to capture the sound portion of the video in real time as it plays on the computer.

On my machine its under All Programs/Accessories/Entertainment for some silly reason.

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Old 08-28-2010, 10:13 PM   #14
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Just to be clear, I can load Windows Sound Recorder -- it just doesn't record the sound from the video I'm playing. I think it's recording sound from the microphone on my laptop.

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Old 08-28-2010, 10:15 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Lieutenant Loughead View Post
Just to be clear, I can load Windows Sound Recorder -- it just doesn't record the sound from the video I'm playing. I think it's recording sound from the microphone on my laptop.
Ok, Thank you for the information, as i would like to know too, i have Vista also, and i hope its not a issue with vista, Take care, Chellie

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Old 08-28-2010, 10:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Lieutenant Loughead View Post
Chellie -- I tried this, and it does not work for me. Any ideas?

I use a Gateway laptop, with Windows Vista.
what probably happening is, the sound recorder is recording from the mic, and not the speakers, so when you play a video, it does not record it.

its been a while sense I have used anything newer than xp... but I had this problem with something...

and sense the way I would describe it would be extremely vague, because its been so long, heres a thread I found on the net: http://www.ontola.com/en/how-to-reco...utput-sound-to

Spit.

Whaaa?
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:24 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by spitfire View Post
what probably happening is, the sound recorder is recording from the mic, and not the speakers, so when you play a video, it does not record it.

its been a while sense I have used anything newer than xp... but I had this problem with something...

and sense the way I would describe it would be extremely vague, because its been so long, heres a thread I found on the net: http://www.ontola.com/en/how-to-reco...utput-sound-to

Spit.
Great Info on the link, Thank you, Chellie

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Old 08-28-2010, 11:39 PM   #18
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LOL -- well, I guess I'm a REAL dummy... I've tried it on two different computers (a Windows Vista system, and a Windows XP system), and I can't get Sound Recorder to record anything at all.

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Old 08-28-2010, 11:44 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Lieutenant Loughead View Post
LOL -- well, I guess I'm a REAL dummy... I've tried it on two different computers (a Windows Vista system, and a Windows XP system), and I can't get Sound Recorder to record anything at all.

Thats why this Thread was made to try to Make things Easy, and find out what works and what does not work, and get help from others that have already charted through the issues, maybe this sound program might be of help, http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ Take care, Chellie

PS Maybe this info may be of some help too, http://www.ontola.com/en/how-to-record-windows-vista-audio-output-sound-to

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Old 08-28-2010, 11:46 PM   #20
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HEY! I think I figured it out! Okay -- now I just need to play with the wave-o-scope software, and figure that out.

Thanks for this great thread, Chellie!

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Old 08-29-2010, 12:23 AM   #21
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Well, I guess I need more practice with WaveOscope -- I made 4 passes, and it seems my top speed was 92.19 mph.

But I know that's not right -- I'm used to flying my Stryker at 80 mph, and this was MUCH faster! Prop pitch speed says 158.99 mph...

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Old 08-29-2010, 12:31 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Lieutenant Loughead View Post
Well, I guess I need more practice with WaveOscope -- I made 4 passes, and it seems my top speed was 92.19 mph.

But I know that's not right -- I'm used to flying my Stryker at 80 mph, and this was MUCH faster! Prop pitch speed says 158.99 mph...
Looks like you have come a long way with Doppler in a very short time Guy keep at it you will be an expert in this in a very short time

SOME MORE INFO THAT MAY BE OF HELP From Larry3215


A tip for next time - the dopplar software works by reading the sound from the video. It helps a lot if there is NO background music added. Also ask your camera person to NOT talk durring the run All we want to hear is the sound from the prop as the plane goes by.

A couple of other tips for good speed readings....

1) try to enter the run straight and level and exit straight and level. If you pull up too soon it lowers your speed and the final reading. Diving into the run of course gives you more speed but may not be a true look at the top sustainable speed. The ideal run has 3 or 4 seconds befor and after the camera that are straight and level. Thats not always possible depending on the flying site.

1A)Keep the plane at full throttle the entire run - both before and especially after you are well past the camera.

2)This isnt super cirtical, but try to fly by as low and close in as possible. The ideal run would be for the plane to fly through the center of the cameras microphone. You may have trouble getting camera opperators though

So - no background noise, close in, straight and level all help in getting good speed readings with the dopplar software.

That said - the trick to going fast is more power and less drag

Add cells, higher pitched prop, BALANCE the prop, higher kv motor - and - add slickness to the plane.

Keep in mind that for any given air frame it take 8 times as much power to go twice as fast.

Your going 86 mph now. You need to go about 18% faster to break 100 mph so you will need about 1.64 times as much power as you have now - at the prop - to do that with the exact same plane. 1.18x1.18x1.18 = 1.64

Sometimes reducing drag has as much effect as adding power.

Streamline things where possible. No loose covering, seal hinge lines and canopy edges, fair in joints and linkages, use thin trailing edges on wings and tail, sharp leading edges, no steps, smooth coverings etc etc.

You want the plane to slip through so the air doesnt even notice it was there

As far as props go - sometimes it works better for speed to have a smaller diameter prop with more pitch. That depends on the motor/prop/plane combo tho and there are no fixed rules.

Post the motor, battery, prop and plane your using and maybe someone with direct experience can help out.

Good luck!

Larry

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Old 08-29-2010, 12:46 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Lieutenant Loughead View Post
Well, I guess I need more practice with WaveOscope -- I made 4 passes, and it seems my top speed was 92.19 mph.

But I know that's not right -- I'm used to flying my Stryker at 80 mph, and this was MUCH faster! Prop pitch speed says 158.99 mph...
Go to the 100 MPH thread and record some of those speed runs, and check them with your Doppler reading to see if your close with the speeds posted, it may help in charting your speed graft and give you some great practice with Wavo-o-scope

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Old 08-29-2010, 12:57 AM   #24
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Already posted there several hours ago! Waiting for someone to work their magic and test my numbers.

I've already got the 100 mph trophy -- now I'm looking for a 150 mph trophy (if there is one).

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Old 08-29-2010, 01:00 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Lieutenant Loughead View Post
Already posted there several hours ago! Waiting for someone to work their magic and test my numbers.

I've already got the 100 mph trophy -- now I'm looking for a 150 mph trophy (if there is one).
Here are the Awards that are Available


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